 Poster: A snowHead
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@Jonny996, definitely not in enough control for the speed. look at the skis. all over the place.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Surely wouldn’t be difficult to display the FIS code on all chairlifts and gondolas in several languages.
It was put to me recently that many people don’t have lessons because skis and snowboards are so easy, so never told about FIS code.
Also that more people are being squeezed onto higher resorts because of poor snow in lower resorts.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Thu 30-01-25 17:30; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@DavidYacht, because these people would actually read it ..not
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That was an insane speed to ski down an open public run. Several times he approached a "blind" crest and would have had no chance of avoiding, say, a fallen skier right in his path. Especially towards the end when he was clearly knackered.
Of course ski school instructors should speak of the rules need to look up before joining a run, etc etc. But it's the resort's job, not theirs, to keep people safe.
I've often seen FIS reminders on lifts etc - especially priority to the downhill skier.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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And of course groups shouldn't strew themselves across a narrow section of a piste. But they do, just like some drivers (like the one one of my friends drove into the back of, unforgiveably, last year) might stop to give way to a mother duck and four ducklings waddling across an A road!
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The underlying issue is that skiing and snowboarding are treated as if they are just a laugh - until they aren't. Lots of people simply don't care that they have a shared responsibility for everyone on the slope and either treat it as their private resource or overestimate their skills significantly then collide in "just an accident mate".
The code doesn't really work - even those who are aware and try to follow it aren't really protected from rogue individuals - you just have to try to ski and stop in a way to avoid danger as much as possible, for every straightliner who thinks they are entitled to their "lane" there's a lemming starting off blind into traffic.
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| nbt wrote: |
| We've definitely noticed a surge in 'bad, fast skiing' ... over the last couple of seasons |
You can check the actual accident data for the USA and for France easily enough. That suggests that perception and reality might be a little different.
| nbt wrote: |
| Most good piste users are able to read what's going on ahead |
Necessary but not sufficient.
The very first FIS rule says: "A skier or snowboarder must behave in such a way that he or she does not endanger or prejudice others."
It's your responsibility to act so you do not endanger the other guy. Irrespective of what they might do.
So if you think other rules allow you to carve large turns across a run without knowing what's behind, you're breaking rule 1.
Having "the right of way" doesn't allow you to endanger or prejudice others. => you have to look behind as well as in front.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@skimastaaah, is that supposed to be funny or helpful?
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Gosh, that's an impressive amount of bigotry in one short sentence. Capped by laughing at your own joke.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Given the hour, I suspect it’s the output of a couple bottle of wine or whiskey.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Ski lots wrote: |
| @skimastaaah, is that supposed to be funny or helpful? |
Neither, just based on very recent experience, a rather cutting remark that sums up fat middle aged French females skiing on slopes way beyond their "debutante" abilities obviously oblivious to those more capable skiers around who they unwittingly traverse across/into delusionally believing that they have right of way because they are fat, middle aged, French, and female.
Saw a lot of very good skiers (both genders) on not crowded slopes skiing with grace and style that were lovely to watch. But on only slightly bumpy terrain that is way beyond the capability of the FFFF-something.
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| Gosh, that's an impressive amount of bigotry in one short sentence. Capped by laughing at your own joke. |
Connard, c'est une quantité impressionnante d'intolérance en une seule phrase courte. Terminé en riant de votre propre blague. Putain.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sun 2-02-25 13:33; edited 1 time in total
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@skimastaaah,
Indeed. Just a stupid, rude, pointless generalisation, on which you are now, delightfully, doubling down. Well done.
By the way, you stopped these people to check their ages and nationalities, did you? They were speaking as you passed them and your French is so brilliant that you know a native French person when you hear one? Yes, right.
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You know it makes sense.
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They do have "right of way" if they are traversing into your path as an uphill skier. Yes it's annoying when people over terrain themselves but they are usually slow moving so not difficult to pass.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@skimastaaah, Being a good skier is not all about your ability.
A bit like driving, its also important to be observing - terrain, weather, other people - for obvious and potential problems.
There are lots of people out there, all genders, nationalities, abilities - and I think as you get more experienced you kinda automatically determine if someone is dangerous, out of control, or looks like they may ski across your preferred line etc.
If you are good enough and observant enough, then take appropriate action - its a piste, and some people do use more of it than you.
Thats life
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Poster: A snowHead
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Agree 100%, in aviation we call this airmanship. It is general self awareness of the environment around you and where you sit within it. It is critical to operating safely within that environment and it is something that goes far beyond a set of rules, albeit rules and SOPs can help.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not going to get into the FFF debate . . . .however in a vague defence for skimastaaah I've found the 'laissez-faire' attitude to accidents/near misses in France more prevalent than anywhere else I've skied . . .ever. However I can also say its not limited to gender/colour/creed/sexual orientation and also includes a significant number of Brits who ski in France . . . . . . 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Belch wrote: |
| ...I've found the 'laissez-faire' attitude to accidents/near misses in France more prevalent than anywhere else I've skied . . .ever. |
One of the reasons I no longer ski in France. The French.
Opens another bag of popcorn 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Revolting
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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What? The French?
Surely not! Acting like tw@zzerks, indifferent attitude (especially to the English), dismissive, arrogant, virtual peasants.
I sold my little "French dream" co-property in Honfleur after 4/5 years of ownership, always a succession of issues the French knew about but did not let on to the foreign owners. Like turning up at Christmas to find the water turned off only to be switched back on in the New Year, or the electricity cut off, the entry fob/codes replaced, a management demand for change of the garden/patio , demand for presence at board meetings.
Just got fed up, so sold up.
As regards actually speaking French, I'm not fluent but can remonstrate with more than a few choice "argot"
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 2-02-25 11:33; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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It stems from the revolution: The Peasants are revolting.
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One of the reasons I no longer ski in France
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Glory be! 
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| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
| Agree 100%, in aviation we call this airmanship. It is general self awareness of the environment around you and where you sit within it. It is critical to operating safely within that environment and it is something that goes far beyond a set of rules, albeit rules and SOPs can help. |
Or seamanship on water.
It’s a collection of skills and experience, plus the awareness of surrounding environments. And the knowledge to use all their skills and experience to navigate safely in it.
I sea kayak in the summer, sometimes having to cross busy waterway. I noticed many of my kayaking cohorts who may be technically proficient but completely lacking in seamanship. They can move their kayaks every which way, but they have no understanding of tide and wind, nor the behavior and limitation of other vessels using the same waterway. So they end up in situations where their otherwise good boat handling skills are insufficient to deal with.
Many skiers suffer from similar lack of “ski-man-ship”! They always claim it’s the “other” people who got in their way. Little did they know how best to not found themselves in such situation in the first place! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I cycle a lot and I'd like to think that some of my on-road awareness skills have transferred over to the ski slope (despite me being much better on a bike than I am on skis). I'm no saint on skis but do have an in-built fear of the worst case scenario, so tend to reign in the speed unless I have a totally clear run.
However, when road cycling I'm amazed at even experienced riders who are totally oblivious to their spacial awareness, their general handling and their perception of of themselves cycling 'badly' and thinking others are to blame when something does inevitably go wrong. I definitely think this lack of self-awareness applies to skiing; you get people who appear to be seasoned experts but they ski in a way that just doesn't fit in with often crowded areas of the mountain and they're just not planning two, three, four steps ahead.
Noticed it a lot in Sestriere at Christmas; I saw several close-calls that ended up with poles being waved and instructors shouting at people, and I even saw a fight between some old dude who'd been skittled by a young lad who'd lost an edge on the ice (old dude was stood in blind spot).
I also noticed that pinch points in pistes were made even tighter by people just stopping; happens everywhere I'm sure, much of it seems to be people taking a breather and/or checking their mobile or taking a photo. Maybe it's a combination of holiday skiers who aren't fit enough to do a full run, or people are just too tuned into getting a photo for Instagram that they forget they're effectively on a highway.
Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Sat 1-02-25 16:32; edited 1 time in total
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I envisage @skimastaaah on the flying bridge of a gin palace roaring out of Poole Harbour leaving smaller craft floundering right and left in his mighty wake.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
Many skiers suffer from similar lack of “ski-man-ship”! They always claim it’s the “other” people who got in their way. Little did they know how best to not found themselves in such situation in the first place!
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Agree with this. I'm, from as early as I could, rider of cycles & motorcycles on the road. Whenever I hear a story from another of whatever happened to go wrong and containing "it was their fault, they did this" its usually of position, location, activity, trajectory that SHOULD have been considered/controlled by the injured party through their experience and assessment of situation.
The "I was completely innocent" but got hit by tale, is often some level of complacency then delivered up to the crunch.
Nothing is perfect, but you can do much to avoid placing yourself at the centre of an accident in many cases. Some always project it's someone else's fault, thereby missing intelligent analysis that may help them avoid something in the future.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| ski3 wrote: |
Nothing is perfect, but you can do much to avoid placing yourself at the centre of an accident in many cases. Some always project it's someone else's fault, thereby missing intelligent analysis that may help them avoid something in the future. |
Agree 100%
I’m far more critical of “good skiers” who complain about novices “getting in the way” for that reason. Novice skiers hadn’t had enough close calls to learn from their bad judgements (over-terrain, poor snow condition, fatigue…) just yet. So they ended up “in the way” of more experienced skiers, when they shouldn’t have been there (traversing a mogul field).
But for the “expert skier”, they should see that coming long ways away and plan their line to avoid tangling up in the situation. So for them to complain about people where they don’t belong repeatedly, it’s a sign they themselves never properly analyze their previous less-than-desirable experience to not get into the same again and again!
(Or maybe they aren’t as “expert” as they thought they are )
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@abc, Agree absolutely. One thing that annoys me particularly, is as an experienced skier and former instructor I see slower and unpredictable skiers ahead, slow down and try to give them space, only for relatively unskilled "blue run heros" to hurtle through the gap
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You know it makes sense.
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@abc, also agreed. I venture to suggest that it's the arrogance of people like skimastaaah (who is probably a good skier and almost certainly thinks he is) which will be more likely to cause an accident, than the inevitable lack of awareness of an inexperienced skier.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I quite enjoy the challenge of staying behind slower, unpredictable skiers sometimes.
My only collision in Les Arcs in January was with another lady who was a similarly competent skier. We were both picking our way down the last bit to Transarc, which was horribly scraped, carefully avoiding the less confident skiers. Unfortunately, we both had the same idea of how to avoid each other and ended up with a tiny glancing blow of elbows, followed by some very British apologising.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@sugarmoma666,
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quite enjoy the challenge of staying behind slower, unpredictable skiers sometimes
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It can indeed be a challenge, especially for impatient people. The only time I get skittish in that situation is if I'm the only one in my group who's got 'stuck' and my ski buddies are miles down the hill.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@KSH, that happens to me all the time, but I don't get skittish about it. They'll just have to wait
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @KSH, that happens to me all the time, but I don't get skittish about it. They'll just have to wait |
That's the better approach, for sure. I hate keeping people waiting which, in that situation, is just silly.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| abc wrote: |
| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
| Agree 100%, in aviation we call this airmanship. It is general self awareness of the environment around you and where you sit within it. It is critical to operating safely within that environment and it is something that goes far beyond a set of rules, albeit rules and SOPs can help. |
Or seamanship on water.
It’s a collection of skills and experience, plus the awareness of surrounding environments. And the knowledge to use all their skills and experience to navigate safely in it.
I sea kayak in the summer, sometimes having to cross busy waterway. I noticed many of my kayaking cohorts who may be technically proficient but completely lacking in seamanship. They can move their kayaks every which way, but they have no understanding of tide and wind, nor the behavior and limitation of other vessels using the same waterway. So they end up in situations where their otherwise good boat handling skills are insufficient to deal with.
Many skiers suffer from similar lack of “ski-man-ship”! They always claim it’s the “other” people who got in their way. Little did they know how best to not found themselves in such situation in the first place! |
100% agree with this. Yes, people selfishly using the the entire piste for slow sweeping wide turns is annoying. Ditto people turning abruptly in front of you, stopping in stupid places, hogging narrow tracks. However at the end of the day it is 100% percent the responsibility of the uphill skier to deal with these situations, and make sure that they never allow themselves to get into a situation where they can't avoid something unexpected/stupid/FFF in front of them.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| @KSH, that happens to me all the time, but I don't get skittish about it. They'll just have to wait |
Same here. I’m not a fast skier. And I also like to make lots of turns when snow is good, resulting me making rather slow progress down the hill. Keeping others waiting is a frequent occurrence.
My philosophy is, they can of course go ahead without me (I would prefer they let me know before disappearing though). I would indeed sometimes suggest that. On the other hand, if they enjoy my company enough to wait, I’m not going to stress about their waiting time.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Sat 1-02-25 21:08; edited 1 time in total
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| Quote: |
if they enjoy my company enough to wait
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An important point! This is, after all, about enjoyment...Historically I have a fast walking pace, even uphill. I take much longer strides than many people (I sometimes, walking behind people at the same speed, seek to match my stride pace to theirs and it makes me feel like a chicken in a tight skirt). So on walks, I would often be waiting for slower walkers, and trying not to be annoying and set off again as soon as they catch up. Now I cannot walk so fast - can do a reasonable pace on the flat but catastrophically slow uphill, so most folk have to wait for me, or walk alongside at my pace and be thankful that I can't walk uphill and talk at the same time!
So now I would not want to hold up a group of proper walkers covering 12 miles with a lot of uphill. But fine doing a 5 mile (e.g. round Buttermere in the autumn) with a bit of gentle uphill now and then. With my sister. It's about being flexible and tolerant, isn't it? But even when I was a lot fitter and faster I was self conscious about holding up a group of skiers who were better than I was, even if they were nice about it. We just have to work out where we can slot in without being a pain! It's horrible being the slow one, and even worse skiing faster than you're comfortable with, to keep up (I very rarely ever did that). I'd much prefer to be ski more slowly and bring up the rear. In our old age cycle group there's one guy - perfectly competent cyclist and a lovely guy - who generally volunteers to be "back marker", and fine with that. There are a few others for whom that would be a real pain. Though we all generally get to the pub for lunch at the same time. 
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People ski like they drive. Making good decisions is more important than being good.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Specialman wrote: |
I cycle a lot and I'd like to think that some of my on-road awareness skills have transferred over to the ski slope (despite me being much better on a bike than I am on skis). I'm no saint on skis but do have an in-built fear of the worst case scenario, so tend to reign in the speed unless I have a totally clear run.
However, when road cycling I'm amazed at even experienced riders who are totally oblivious to their spacial awareness, their general handling and their perception of of themselves cycling 'badly' and thinking others are to blame when something does inevitably go wrong. I definitely think this lack of self-awareness applies to skiing; you get people who appear to be seasoned experts but they ski in a way that just doesn't fit in with often crowded areas of the mountain and they're just not planning two, three, four steps ahead.
Noticed it a lot in Sestriere at Christmas; I saw several close-calls that ended up with poles being waved and instructors shouting at people, and I even saw a fight between some old dude who'd been skittled by a young lad who'd lost an edge on the ice (old dude was stood in blind spot).
I also noticed that pinch points in pistes were made even tighter by people just stopping; happens everywhere I'm sure, much of it seems to be people taking a breather and/or checking their mobile or taking a photo. Maybe it's a combination of holiday skiers who aren't fit enough to do a full run, or people are just too tuned into getting a photo for Instagram that they forget they're effectively on a highway. |
I road cycle too. I think it helps that I’m also a car driver, in that you know what some drivers will do or not do. On this ski trip of ours in the Dolomites it crossed my mind (probably enhanced by this thread) that being aware of hazards, what’s happening in the near/middle/far distance and from the sides is improved by good safety habits or experience in those two modes of transport.
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| skithesteelstealtheski wrote: |
| People ski like they drive. Making good decisions is more important than being good. |
+1
Also, being good doesn’t automatically guarantee good decision making.
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FAQ
