 Poster: A snowHead
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In terms of the 'socially deprived market' this is nothing new and arguably something that brands have been quite happy to quietly accommodate for some time. Labels really kicked in during the early 80s when football fans travelled to the continent and starting shoplifting from French / Italian boutique stores; La Chemise Lacoste / Fila / Sergio Tacchini became de riguer for footy yobs in an attempt to become more socially accepted and 'conceal' any previously assumed hooligan status. This has pretty much remained ever since with labels like CP Company / Stone Island continuing the trend for this demographic; Moncler / Canada Goose / Arc are a similar reflection of this for streetwear. I did a lot of brand work with Henri LLoyd back in the day which remains a very technical sailing brand with high end products designed to protect in horrific conditions; it soon became a hooligans brand of choice during the 90s/00s which although HL never wanted (or needed) to formally recognise, still became a integral part of their market strategy . . . sales are sales!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@puddingdo, @snowyc, +2. It's when arrogant/rude/ generally nasty behaviour goes with the bling clothing that I feel entitled to sneer. As with some* Russians on the slopes in past years.
*But not all. I've met some lovely ones in cafés and restaurants over the years, though it has to be said that the nicest weren't often clad in bling.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Belch, fascinating!
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| pam w wrote: |
| me ago. Yer actual toffs don't give a flying whatsit what people think about them. |
Was that actually true, or was it a part of the carefully crafted toff persona? We're complicated animals right across the social spectrum. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Belch, don’t forget other homegrown hooligan brands, e.g. Fred Perry, Burberry.
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@Belch, Does the 'yob' interest in a brand not precede a fall? HL fell apart and I'm thinking of Burberry. Is it not that when the 'yob' desirability fades, the original customer base have dumped the brand? Short termism surely?
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We say we wear something because we want ourselves to feel better but the feeling comes from how people see us
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Yes, I suppose that's true just about by definition, but it does depend a lot which "people" you are talking about. Most of the people whose company I would enjoy for - say - lunch at the sailing club, or a walk in the country - would probably have no idea how much my clothes cost, and would definitely not care. I suspect that if a group of 3 or 4 of us were asked, after the event, to say what the others had been wearing, nobody would remember unless it had been truly bizarre.
Mostly I wear something because I want to feel comfortable and not draw attention to myself by being either too smart, or too scruffy. And most of all I don't want to look as though I've tried too hard - and failed!
It's partly an age difference, probably, and having grown up (thankfully) before the age of "labels". By the time people are truly grown up I think their self-image, and sense of self-worth, is more secure and less dependent on worrying about what other people think.
I also suspect that many younger people are quite wrong about how much people will "notice" about them. For example, I often wear odd earrings because I see no more sense in always wearing symmetrical earrings than having to wear symmetrical rings on right and left hand. I don't think many people "notice" and I don't care whether they notice or not.
I've only once bought a new car because I think they're a waste of money, given depreciation. I suspect I'd think that even if I were more wealthy than I am. The exception was when I was exporting the car within six months and could therefore get the tax off, which made a new car a sensible buy. I wouldn't buy an old banger either, because I know nothing about cars and wouldn't want to take the risk of its going wrong and letting me down, and causing hassle. Provided its fit for purpose, I don't care what I drive and am not remotely impressed by what anybody else drives I have a friend who's 80, and has just bought herself a second new (old) MX5. She's a very big girl, and she struggles to get in and out of it. And if she picks me up to go sailing we struggle to get a modest amount of gear, food and drink into the bloody thing for the two mile trip round to the marina. She loves it and I think she's mad. I dislike riding in it, being so low on the road gives me the willies.
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| Mollerski wrote: |
| @Belch, Does the 'yob' interest in a brand not precede a fall? HL fell apart and I'm thinking of Burberry. Is it not that when the 'yob' desirability fades, the original customer base have dumped the brand? Short termism surely? |
Fashion is indeed fickle however not really! All publicity is good publicity and there are other factors in play when a brand falls out of favour; in general the earlier any brand can get under the skin of 'the kids' the better, as they're creating loyalty / reasons to return later on. . . .TNF have taken a slight wobble in terms of perceived value (highly technical mountaineering vs yoof culture) however they have continued to remain true to their core DNA (the spirit of adventure) whilst recognising the streetwear market at the same time - win win. HL have not been as successful and maybe they should have embraced the yoof more overtly when they had the opportunity; sailing is also perhaps a much smaller market? Skiwear is a similar 'tricky' proposition however the great outdoors creates a broader sweep as its more accessible. The biggest brand in the world Nike have surprisingly failed in this arena and direct their technical focus towards the most popular global sports - Nike ACG (all conditions gear) never really took off and they seemingly haven't bothered to push into this market ever since!
Last edited by After all it is free  on Thu 4-01-24 13:27; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I spend money on my person eg on clothes and haircuts (the latter are frequent and expensive in my case) so as to look, subject to many innate limitations, attractive and appropriate. By definition that means to other people, since I don't spend all day looking in a mirror. I'm forced to hope that what I consider attractive is also attractive to others, or at least to people whose opinions I respect. When it comes to things eg paintings and activities, I spend money as I please and in the quantity I can afford. I certainly wouldn't sneer at people who, say, pay large sums to attend a pop concert and I would hope that people wouldn't sneer at me for the amount I spend on live classical music. In general I don't think it's terribly attractive to be judgmental.
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@pam w,
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. She loves it and I think she's mad.
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I really don't think it's mad to love a beautiful sports car enough to put up with some discomfort.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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When someone buys something because of label and to impress someone else I look at it as a membership fee. A kids wearing TNF wants to be a part of that club where TNF is recognizable so he buys it, same with watches and cars. Then we get older and we leave or change clubs. I've left most of the clubs now but probably not all of them.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| snowyc wrote: |
| When someone buys something because of label and to impress someone else I look at it as a membership fee. A kids wearing TNF wants to be a part of that club where TNF is recognizable so he buys it, same with watches and cars. Then we get older and we leave or change clubs. I've left most of the clubs now but probably not all of them. |
Agreed!
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| snowyc wrote: |
| When someone buys something because of label and to impress someone else I look at it as a membership fee. A kids wearing TNF wants to be a part of that club where TNF is recognizable so he buys it, same with watches and cars. Then we get older and we leave or change clubs. I've left most of the clubs now but probably not all of them. |
Interesting, I never thought of that. Probably because I'm the least clubbable person in the world!
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You know it makes sense.
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| pam w wrote: |
| It's a truism that the conspicuous spending is more for your nouveau riche, isn't it? |
That has to be the most elitist middle class underhanded jibe I’ve read in a long time.
The fact is technology has changed society & the once privileged lifestyle of the professional class is now accessible by those that embraced the change.
There has been chat about Rolex and classic Porsche and why? Go and do your research & you will find out why, they have outstripped inflation in price increases.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@pam w, oh dear, I think you just stood on the corns of a proudly self-made man. With expensive tastes. 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Belch wrote: |
| Mollerski wrote: |
| @Belch, Does the 'yob' interest in a brand not precede a fall? HL fell apart and I'm thinking of Burberry. Is it not that when the 'yob' desirability fades, the original customer base have dumped the brand? Short termism surely? |
The biggest brand in the world Nike have surprisingly failed in this arena and direct their technical focus towards the most popular global sports - Nike ACG (all conditions gear) never really took off and they seemingly haven't bothered to push into this market ever since! |
Which is a shame because their stuff was excellent.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Mike Pow wrote: |
| Belch wrote: |
| Mollerski wrote: |
| @Belch, Does the 'yob' interest in a brand not precede a fall? HL fell apart and I'm thinking of Burberry. Is it not that when the 'yob' desirability fades, the original customer base have dumped the brand? Short termism surely? |
The biggest brand in the world Nike have surprisingly failed in this arena and direct their technical focus towards the most popular global sports - Nike ACG (all conditions gear) never really took off and they seemingly haven't bothered to push into this market ever since! |
Which is a shame because their stuff was excellent. |
Seconded....I had a grey two-piece in the early naughties that I loved.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Must remember all of this if I get on the train home from work with my Volant skis.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| @pam w, oh dear, I think you just stood on the corns of a proudly self-made man. With expensive tastes. |
Nope, wrong again unfortunately. I’m a massive Decathlon fan
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@Mollerski, Yes have seen some newer stuff but that ship has sailed.
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It's far-fetched, to put it no more strongly, to claim that it is only those who have failed to "embrace change" who can not now afford the "once privileged lifestyle of the professional class".
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| pam w wrote: |
| It's far-fetched, to put it no more strongly, to claim that it is only those who have failed to "embrace change" who can not now afford the "once privileged lifestyle of the professional class". |
And where did I say that? Your multiple negatives are reminiscence of Humphrey Appleby. Your comments are coming across as rude and even perhaps jealous.
People can buy what they want, why it offends you I have no idea.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
technology has changed society & the once privileged lifestyle of the professional class is now accessible by those that embraced the change.
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That's what you said, @Jonny996. If you didn't mean to say that people who had "embraced change" could now have the "once privileged lifestyle of the professional class", what DID you mean?
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I'm astonished that you think I'm "jealous". On the contrary, I have everything I want and enough money to give a fair bit away. I'm exceedingly fortunate and 100% conscious of it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I meant & I think it clearly says, that the people who embraced the change can now afford what was once only available to the professional class.
This may be seen by that professional class as unjustified. IE the sense of elite that has been shown in some of the posts on this thread.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I shall chase it down. I think it's an interesting and pervasive thing.
The terminology is interesting: "self-made", "elitist middle class", "yob", "toffs", "nouveau riche" etc.
I'm thinking that those are all pejoratives. As those are one tribe describing others, maybe that's inevitable?
Do people pick their tribe and stick with it life long, or do they switch? Isn't it terribly easy to fake all this? I don't think clothing costs are very significant if you can afford to ski; I'm unconvinced it's a money issue.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| @Belch, fascinating! |
Yes, but we don't want too many experts posting on snowheads - we've already got SZK back in the ski boot chats.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Quote: |
I meant & I think it clearly says, that the people who embraced the change can now afford what was once only available to the professional class.
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Precisely. Exactly what I thought you meant. Which is that if people can't accord that aspirational life style it is because they failed to embrace the change.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| davidof wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
| @Belch, fascinating! |
Yes, but we don't want too many experts posting on snowheads - we've already got SZK back in the ski boot chats. |
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
I meant & I think it clearly says, that the people who embraced the change can now afford what was once only available to the professional class.
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Precisely. Exactly what I thought you meant. Which is that if people can't accord that aspirational life style it is because they failed to embrace the change. |
No it’s basic economics, those who did are being paid large salaries now (justified is another question) the same salaries as the professional class. (I will come fully clean and state , I do not think a basic IT manager justifies the same salary as a GP, but that’s the case)
In saying that I know a plumber who is doing rather well at the moment also.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| I will come fully clean and state , I do not think a basic IT manager justifies the same salary as a GP, but that’s the case |
GPs are going the way of the Dodo
They've jumped the shark on pay with their ghost patient scam
Will all be replaced by Generative AIs within a decade
No more 50K granite topped kitchens with boiling water taps
Or 3 ski holidays per year
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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To me, the problem with “branded” clothing is the large logos stuck all over it. If I pay good money for something why should I look like a walking billboard? Unfortunately it’s difficult to avoid, eg I used to have a pair of Ray Bans that got stolen when my wife’s car was broken into. I’ve been unable to replace them because the “same” model now has Ray Ban written on the arms in a very unattractive fashion.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If you replaced the fur trim on hood with a live ferret, would that deter the muggers?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The animal rights people have not targeted the thug wearing Canada Goose brigade with paint, I wonder why?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
| @Belch, fascinating! |
Yes, but we don't want too many experts posting on snowheads - we've already got SZK back in the ski boot chats. |
Whos SZK and does he wear Henri Lloyd when skiing? 
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| Belch wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
| @Belch, fascinating! |
Yes, but we don't want too many experts posting on snowheads - we've already got SZK back in the ski boot chats. |
Whos SZK and does he wear Henri Lloyd when skiing? |
I don't know what he wears but he is the self proclaimed best boot fitter in Chamonix and a number of snowheads would agree with that.
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@Belch, to expand on @davidof's answer, SmallZooKeeper (there was a large one as well) was CH20's previous forum name.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| davidof wrote: |
GPs are going the way of the Dodo
They've jumped the shark on pay with their ghost patient scam
Will all be replaced by Generative AIs within a decade
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I struggle to find someone who may not be replaced by GAI. Maybe kids mining materials for our EVs are safe as they will still be cheaper for some time than a machine.
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| Gordyjh wrote: |
| To me, the problem with “branded” clothing is the large logos stuck all over it. If I pay good money for something why should I look like a walking billboard? Unfortunately it’s difficult to avoid, eg I used to have a pair of Ray Bans that got stolen when my wife’s car was broken into. I’ve been unable to replace them because the “same” model now has Ray Ban written on the arms in a very unattractive fashion. |
So do you believe that Rayban lenses and frames are superior to any other sunglasses of an identical style which aren't Raybans and therefore don't have the logo which you find offensive?
My son for example, swears by Persol sunglasses. He considers them to be better than Raybans in terms of build quality. Persol sunglasses are unidentifiable by name. No logo.
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FAQ
