 Poster: A snowHead
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France’s Loi Montagne comes into force on November 1, meaning drivers across 48 areas of France must have winter or all-season snow tyres fitted on their vehicles.
Alternatively, they need to have snow chains or auto ‘socks’ in their boots.
The law aims to improve safety on mountainous roads and covers the Alps, Corsica, the Massif Central, Jura, Pyrenees and Vosges mountain ranges.
It affects cars, vans, commercial vehicles, 4x4s, buses and HGVs, and road signs indicate where zones covered by the law begin and end.
Vehicles, including those registered abroad, must have one of these in place, even if there is no snow on the roads at the time they are driving.
The rule's are in place until March 31, 2024.
Failure to do so risks a fine of up to €135 and your vehicle being immobilised.
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https://www.loimontagne.info/carte
More here
https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/Practical/Your-Questions/Everyday-Life/Are-all-season-tyres-allowed-during-winter-in-France
https://www.connexionfrance.com/article/French-news/MAP-where-in-French-mountainous-departments-do-you-now-need-winter-tyres-or-snow-chains-in-winter-2022-23
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Tue 24-10-23 17:54; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And if they're doing much in the mountains, wise to have either chains or sox as well as appropriate tyres. Just the tyres won't allow you to go up the mountain on those few days (almost always Saturdays.....) when the conditions are specially difficult.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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"Alternatively, they need to have snow chains or auto ‘socks’ in their boots."
I didnt read it as that ...i read it as ," they need to have snow chains or auto ‘socks’ in their boots." as well ...maybe I'm wrong
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My reading of the rules are that you must have "3 peak" tyres OR carry chains all the time in the designated areas. In some conditions you must put chains on (blue signs).
In general I always put socks on inside my boots.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The various "explanations" are contradictory and unclear. But this https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/id/JORFTEXT000042434406 does seem to indicate that "antidérapants" to equip at least two wheels are obligatory for cars without the right tyres.
That means every motorist driving from the UK without ordinary tyres MUST have chains or socks, even when the sun is shining and the road is completely dry.
And, as often mentioned, if the police are insisting on chains, pointing to your winter tyres will get you nowhere. You can be sent down the mountain to find some chains or socks.
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I see for this year tyres with M+S on and not the three peaks are still ok but from next November they arent,
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French tell Brits to get new socks from M+S.
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In practical terms I don't really see this as a change especiallyfor those driving to the alps where chains / socks can be mandatory already. As a summer tyre southener the snow socks go in the boot from November ish onwards, minimal additional weight for the knowledge I can deal with 99% of what I might reasonably face
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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In practical terms I don't really see this as a change especiallyfor those driving to the alps where chains / socks can be mandatory already.
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That's right. It brings France into line with the northern Italian regions (e.g. driving north from Turin).
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Outside of the rules it seems to me that you really need all season/winter tyres or snow socks for grip and traction in powdery snow and then chains for when the road is highly compacted or icy.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Yes, as we've often said, snow socks are really not a substitute for chains but the socks you put on are better than the chains which stay in the boot because you're scared of them.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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What many fail to appreciate is that the law is not a guide.
If you're driving in mountains in the winter you should have winter tyres on.
Driving with summer tyres (and snow chains in the boot) does not constitute being properly equipped - even if legally compliant.
The icy/snowy road cares not one whit that you have snow chains in the boot - as you slide off the road toward the cliff edge...
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Well no, there's no cure for stupid. But if you have chains or snow socks in the boot and have had the wit to work out how to use them, you'll have put them on. The law has to reach a compromise between the ideal and the possible. There is no doubt that an enforced 20 mph speed limit in built up areas currently limited to 30 mph would save lives (probably MORE lives than enforcing winter tyres in the Alps). But if it were not broadly accepted as reasonable, it could well fail.
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You know it makes sense.
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If you start to slide, give it a little Scandi flick, dab of oppo, and power out of the switchback. Very easy.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Driving with summer tyres
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I know summers are getting hotter, but where can you get "summer tyres" from?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@pam w, the trouble is there is a tendency for UK drivers to feel that if their car is legal to drive in the mountains, that it is properly equipped to do so.
A hatchback with balding summer tyres doesn't suddenly obtain winter-tyre traction just because there are chains in the boot.
The problem is that wintry but summer-tyre-passable stretch of winding mountain roads between French rainy autoroutes (UK typical) and the higher altitude, snow covered mountain roads where summer tyres cannot obtain traction without chains. That stretch between the two is where many brits will assume their summer tyres magically obtain winter tyre traction as a consequence of having snow chains in the boot. That stretch is the danger zone.... 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| johnE wrote: |
| I know summers are getting hotter, but where can you get "summer tyres" from? |
'Summer tyres' is more concise than 'tyres that aren't all season or winter tyres'.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Crosbie wrote: |
| johnE wrote: |
| I know summers are getting hotter, but where can you get "summer tyres" from? |
'Summer tyres' is more concise than 'tyres that aren't all season or winter tyres'. |
And everyone without exception knows what the term means.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Charliegolf wrote: |
| Crosbie wrote: |
| johnE wrote: |
| I know summers are getting hotter, but where can you get "summer tyres" from? |
'Summer tyres' is more concise than 'tyres that aren't all season or winter tyres'. |
And everyone without exception knows what the term means. |
Particularly johnE, as he posts the same thing on every thread about tyres.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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That stretch between the two is where many brits will assume their summer tyres magically obtain winter tyre traction as a consequence of having snow chains in the boot.
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There's a lot of pontificating here about British drivers sometimes do! There are some nasty accidents in the mountains because of loss of traction but far more often people just get stuck, and cause a hold up, or miss their flights. And French drivers do it just as much as British ones, IME. The chances of a serious accident are greater on the motorway - especially for those people who boast of doing "Calais to the Three Valleys" in no time and only stopping for a wee once on route.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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winter tires are the new helmets
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@pam w, there's one stretch of mountain road, between Grenoble and Serre Chevalier (via La Grave), that gives me eeby-jeebies even with snow tyres. Yet folk drive along it in ski season it as if its pot-holed, icy/frosty hairpins can be done at 40mph. I fear for the summer-tyred Brit who tries to keep up...
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Charliegolf wrote:
Crosbie wrote:
johnE wrote:
I know summers are getting hotter, but where can you get "summer tyres" from?
'Summer tyres' is more concise than 'tyres that aren't all season or winter tyres'.
And everyone without exception knows what the term means.
Particularly johnE, as he posts the same thing on every thread about tyres.
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That's because it annoys me every time.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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We all have our little foible's.
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| Crosbie wrote: |
What many fail to appreciate is that the law is not a guide.
If you're driving in mountains in the winter you should have winter tyres on.
Driving with summer tyres (and snow chains in the boot) does not constitute being properly equipped - even if legally compliant.
The icy/snowy road cares not one whit that you have snow chains in the boot - as you slide off the road toward the cliff edge... |
Please tell the Italian car hire companies this
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Whitegold, "Roger Albert Clark was God!"
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
Driving with summer tyres
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I know summers are getting hotter, but where can you get "summer tyres" from? |
Kwik Fit, since you ask. The grossly profane insult is implicit.
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| Skiyeah wrote: |
| In practical terms I don't really see this as a change especially for those driving to the alps where chains / socks can be mandatory already. |
The difference is that in the past they were 'mandatory' only when conditions dictated it, and unless actually stopped by the gendarmes and told to put chains on or descend many people, not only Brits, would just risk it on their unsuitable tyres. Accidents caused by this are not uncommon, as I'm sure anyone that's driven in the Alps will attest, and sometimes worse are the tailbacks caused by idiots trying to get all the way up and getting stuck on the twisty bits, then trying to put their chains on in the middle of the road. Grrr.
All hail the new law, say I.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Whitegold wrote: |
| If you start to slide, give it a little Scandi flick, dab of oppo, and power out of the switchback. Very easy. |
Not.
I did once get out of a (non-)sticky situation where I was absolutely going to go into the ditch, front wheels just skidding and failing to steer, by dabbing the brakes, whence the ABS managed to get the wheels back rolling again and able to drive out of the skid. I had naively thought that my AWD Volvo would be fine driving up to Tignes in the snow and after 11 hours on the road had been reluctant to stop and put the chains on. Lesson learned.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| pam w wrote: |
| We all have our little foible's. |
Like the grocers apostrophe's?
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Poster: A snowHead
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Indeed
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well I have a real scruple/issue to deal with.
Originally my plan was to be back in Serre end of October at the latest for Toussaint, but now looks more like mid-end November, and guess where my winter-tyres and chains are?
Even though I have a 4x4 - so options buy a cheap pair of chains to be legal or examine the weather closely and take a chance 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@pam w, Nine and a quarter hours with two wee stops
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Weathercam, I'd wing it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Whilst “summer” tyres with chains are legal and will get you there they are a right pain in the ‘arris for all the people in properly equipped cars who are delayed as they creep about at 20 kph. Just fit the right tyres for winter in the mountains!
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Weathercam, I'd wing it. |
Yes, the difference between me and someone going on their holiday is that if the weather looks suspect I'll delay the trip by a couple of days, whereas, and this is the main stumbling or sliding issue for many, is that they are committed to travel on a set day, normally a Saturday, and if that coincides with bad weather that's when the problems occur.
Though does depend on resort, for instance in Serre Che many use their cars to travel along the valley from their various accommodation to the lifts, and again if there's bad weather.....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
That means every motorist driving from the UK without ordinary tyres MUST have chains or socks, even when the sun is shining and the road is completely dry.
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I thought that was already the case
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So here's a question - would the road from Thonon to Montriond near Morzine constitute a mountain road that requires chains? We're going at new year with 3psf all season tyres fitted and it feels like this route could work (and lower?) if we know there's weather or traffic issues climbing up from Cluses to Les Gets.
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FAQ
