We are going to Dolomiti (Ortisei) to ski for the first time. We live in California and usually ski in Tahoe or Mammoth - allmountain piste with soft natural snow. I have a pair of Stoeckli Nella 88, which are absolutely perfect for ski conditions there, and I can't imagine any other skis being as good for me.
I don't see anything similar in Ortisei ski rentals. If they have Stoeckli, all the models are variations of Stoeckli Laser, which seem to be for piste, much more narrow, and the ski marked as "lady" are much shorter than what I have (mine are 168cm). Does it mean that the snow in Dolomiti is very different? More icy and hard? Does it mean that bringing my skis with me will be not just a hassle but a waste of effort as they are not really a good fit for Dolomiti slopes?
I appreciate any advice.
Thank you!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@ketya77, the Italians in the Dolomites ski on short skinny (piste) skis, but that doesn’t mean you have to. There may not be as much natural snow, though sometimes there is plenty it’s just that the Dolomites are renowned for being able to prepare perfect pistes without any snowfall at all, but it is still nice to ski. What time of year are you going? I don’t think the area is particularly known to be icy and hard, and I don’t remember it being that way. I think that your skis will be absolutely fine (I have skied there on much larger ones, though I did stand out a bit!), so if you like to ski them, bring them with you.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Also, you might want to delete your competing thread before it gets any replies, otherwise things get a bit repetitive and confusing.
The rental shops carry skis that are best suited to local conditions. This generally means fairly narrow carvers and race carvers. Unless it snows, the vast majority of the skiing will be on groomed hardpack. Spring condition snow is unusual before March. My friend from California "gets by" on piste-orientated all mountain skis in Ortisei but carvers generally work best.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
If it snows, almost everyone disappears indoors, leaving lovely fresh slopes for the few who have the skis and skills to use them
We are going to Dolomiti (Ortisei) to ski for the first time. We live in California and usually ski in Tahoe or Mammoth - allmountain piste with soft natural snow. I have a pair of Stoeckli Nella 88, which are absolutely perfect for ski conditions there, and I can't imagine any other skis being as good for me.
I don't see anything similar in Ortisei ski rentals. If they have Stoeckli, all the models are variations of Stoeckli Laser, which seem to be for piste, much more narrow, and the ski marked as "lady" are much shorter than what I have (mine are 168cm). Does it mean that the snow in Dolomiti is very different? More icy and hard? Does it mean that bringing my skis with me will be not just a hassle but a waste of effort as they are not really a good fit for Dolomiti slopes?
I appreciate any advice.
Thank you!
I'd say patch your skis, it's a hassle and cost to take them and I'm sure you'll be able to find whatever you need in Val Gardena. Maybe make some calls to reassure yourself. I'm sure I saw Stocklii Montero available in Santa Cristina (5 mins up the road from Ortisei) last year.
If there is not much fresh stuff, the pistes will still be in excellent condition and you could get some nice narrow skis to make the most of conditions. The Italians are the masters of pistemanship. Every morning, everything is groomed and you can carve your way between the stunning golden mountains, tanning Espressi and grappa.
I'm a hypocrite though, I'll be taking my Dobermann Spitfire 80 RB out with me.
These guys have three shops in Val Gardena. 2 in Selva and 1 in Santa Cristina. Great guys, sorted me and mates out on many occasions. If you're staying in Ortisei, it is quite handy to rent in Selva and leave your gear there over night. Then you can mooch about and have a few beers before getting the bus down the road.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Lots of people in the Alps have some weird puritanical stuff going on re. skinny skis and technical piste skiing being The Holy Grail, but there's no need to go along with it. The Dolomites are known for primarily piste skiing and/or steep couloir skiing and your Stöcklis should be great at either (it's not like Stöckli ever made a ski that couldn't carve!).
Re. the snow, the Dollies generally are not the snowiest mountains, so there is a lot of artificial onpiste snow. But they are v good at making it, and as they get lots of sun, the pistes can soften up nicely too (especially from late-Feb onwards).
After all it is free
After all it is free
Scarlet wrote:
@ketya77, the Italians in the Dolomites ski on short skinny (piste) skis, but that doesn’t mean you have to. There may not be as much natural snow, though sometimes there is plenty it’s just that the Dolomites are renowned for being able to prepare perfect pistes without any snowfall at all, but it is still nice to ski. What time of year are you going? I don’t think the area is particularly known to be icy and hard, and I don’t remember it being that way. I think that your skis will be absolutely fine (I have skied there on much larger ones, though I did stand out a bit!), so if you like to ski them, bring them with you.
We are going in the first part of January to Ortisei/Val Gardena.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Scarlet wrote:
Also, you might want to delete your competing thread before it gets any replies, otherwise things get a bit repetitive and confusing.
I didn't know which sub would be the right one for a question like this. Thank you!
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Last three trips I've been to the dolomites including one to Ortisei I've taken an all mountain slightly wider ski because that's what I've got.
They work fine though I have virtually never left prepared piste as the conditions haven't warranted it.
A classic piste ski might be slightly better but the difference would be marginal most times I've been.
The dolomites don't really specialize in steep icy blacks.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
sean1967 wrote:
ketya77 wrote:
Hello everyone,
We are going to Dolomiti (Ortisei) to ski for the first time. We live in California and usually ski in Tahoe or Mammoth - allmountain piste with soft natural snow. I have a pair of Stoeckli Nella 88, which are absolutely perfect for ski conditions there, and I can't imagine any other skis being as good for me.
I don't see anything similar in Ortisei ski rentals. If they have Stoeckli, all the models are variations of Stoeckli Laser, which seem to be for piste, much more narrow, and the ski marked as "lady" are much shorter than what I have (mine are 168cm). Does it mean that the snow in Dolomiti is very different? More icy and hard? Does it mean that bringing my skis with me will be not just a hassle but a waste of effort as they are not really a good fit for Dolomiti slopes?
I appreciate any advice.
Thank you!
I'd say patch your skis, it's a hassle and cost to take them and I'm sure you'll be able to find whatever you need in Val Gardena. Maybe make some calls to reassure yourself. I'm sure I saw Stocklii Montero available in Santa Cristina (5 mins up the road from Ortisei) last year.
If there is not much fresh stuff, the pistes will still be in excellent condition and you could get some nice narrow skis to make the most of conditions. The Italians are the masters of pistemanship. Every morning, everything is groomed and you can carve your way between the stunning golden mountains, tanning Espressi and grappa.
I'm a hypocrite though, I'll be taking my Dobermann Spitfire 80 RB out with me.
These guys have three shops in Val Gardena. 2 in Selva and 1 in Santa Cristina. Great guys, sorted me and mates out on many occasions. If you're staying in Ortisei, it is quite handy to rent in Selva and leave your gear there over night. Then you can mooch about and have a few beers before getting the bus down the road.
Thank you so much. Super helpful. I just wrote these guys, will see what they say. Unfortunately, we won't have a car and will rely on our hotel's shuttle, which goes to Sededa, Alpe de Siusi and Jaguar point in the Ortisei center. The hotel also have a ski room with lockers and an agreement with a ski rental (a different one) that delivers skis right to the hotel (but that place doesn't have Stoeckli). It'll be our first time in Ortisei, so I can't figure out which lift we'll use more often - Seceda or Alpe de Siusi, so the safest choice would be to store the skis at the hotel. Of course, we can go to the location and pick the skis up but I wonder if we'll need a taxi to bring them to the hotel and if they'll fit in a taxi. Or maybe I overthink all this way too much.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
T Bar wrote:
Last three trips I've been to the dolomites including one to Ortisei I've taken an all mountain slightly wider ski because that's what I've got.
They work fine though I have virtually never left prepared piste as the conditions haven't warranted it.
A classic piste ski might be slightly better but the difference would be marginal most times I've been.
The dolomites don't really specialize in steep icy blacks.
So, you brought your skis. Well, I'm thinking about that. On one hand - I know and love my skis. On the other hand - it's a hassle to drag them through the airports, plus concern about British Airways' gentle hand and connecting flights.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
ketya77 wrote:
T Bar wrote:
Last three trips I've been to the dolomites including one to Ortisei I've taken an all mountain slightly wider ski because that's what I've got.
They work fine though I have virtually never left prepared piste as the conditions haven't warranted it.
A classic piste ski might be slightly better but the difference would be marginal most times I've been.
The dolomites don't really specialize in steep icy blacks.
So, you brought your skis. Well, I'm thinking about that. On one hand - I know and love my skis. On the other hand - it's a hassle to drag them through the airports, plus concern about British Airways' gentle hand and connecting flights.
I take my own on economic grounds, I live in the UK, I would be quite happy renting what are likely to be decent quality piste skis if taking your own is a pain.
On your previous post I think a lot of the time you will be going to Seceda rather than Alpe di Suisi, it links better with the rest of the skiing. Sometimes you might want to get the frequent busses to Selva if you to explore further as it is a closer entry point to the Sella and areas off it.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
We spent a week in Alpe di Siusi last year and I brought my Nordica enforcer 88s. There wasn't any new snow so was completely on piste and the 88s were great. Sure something narrower would've been 10% more fun but not worth the cost of renting for a week. If you have fun on your skis carving corduroy at Mammoth/Tahoe then you'll have fun carving corduroy in the Dolomites. Just comes down to the cost of renting vs hassle of bringing your own.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
ketya77 wrote:
I know and love my skis.
I think this is the critical point.
There'll be a fair bit of cold hardpack in January so you want something with grip but the Nela 88 reviews say they're still good in those conditions. The 88 width is right on the cusp IMO - if they were 98mm it would be a definite "no" and if they were anything around 80mm it would be an "absolutely fine" answer.
So it probably comes down to whether the familiarity of being on your own skis in less familiar conditions outweighs the "benefits" of an unfamiliar narrower ski. Chances are that any high end piste ski that you rent will also be stiffer and heavier than your Nelas so it could be quite a change. The Dollies are very much a cruising resort so on balance, I think adapting to the conditions is easier than adapting to a different ski and different conditions so you'd be better off with your own skis.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
You sound like an 'Experienced' Skier - I think you will spend most of your time on the Seceda side or getting the Bus to Selva, as a quicker starting point for the Sella Ronda :: (I found Aple-di-Suisi a bit 'Flat').
Don't expect much (if any) 'Off-Piste' skiing !!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
ketya77 wrote:
sean1967 wrote:
ketya77 wrote:
Hello everyone,
We are going to Dolomiti (Ortisei) to ski for the first time. We live in California and usually ski in Tahoe or Mammoth - allmountain piste with soft natural snow. I have a pair of Stoeckli Nella 88, which are absolutely perfect for ski conditions there, and I can't imagine any other skis being as good for me.
I don't see anything similar in Ortisei ski rentals. If they have Stoeckli, all the models are variations of Stoeckli Laser, which seem to be for piste, much more narrow, and the ski marked as "lady" are much shorter than what I have (mine are 168cm). Does it mean that the snow in Dolomiti is very different? More icy and hard? Does it mean that bringing my skis with me will be not just a hassle but a waste of effort as they are not really a good fit for Dolomiti slopes?
I appreciate any advice.
Thank you!
I'd say patch your skis, it's a hassle and cost to take them and I'm sure you'll be able to find whatever you need in Val Gardena. Maybe make some calls to reassure yourself. I'm sure I saw Stocklii Montero available in Santa Cristina (5 mins up the road from Ortisei) last year.
If there is not much fresh stuff, the pistes will still be in excellent condition and you could get some nice narrow skis to make the most of conditions. The Italians are the masters of pistemanship. Every morning, everything is groomed and you can carve your way between the stunning golden mountains, tanning Espressi and grappa.
I'm a hypocrite though, I'll be taking my Dobermann Spitfire 80 RB out with me.
These guys have three shops in Val Gardena. 2 in Selva and 1 in Santa Cristina. Great guys, sorted me and mates out on many occasions. If you're staying in Ortisei, it is quite handy to rent in Selva and leave your gear there over night. Then you can mooch about and have a few beers before getting the bus down the road.
Thank you so much. Super helpful. I just wrote these guys, will see what they say. Unfortunately, we won't have a car and will rely on our hotel's shuttle, which goes to Sededa, Alpe de Siusi and Jaguar point in the Ortisei center. The hotel also have a ski room with lockers and an agreement with a ski rental (a different one) that delivers skis right to the hotel (but that place doesn't have Stoeckli). It'll be our first time in Ortisei, so I can't figure out which lift we'll use more often - Seceda or Alpe de Siusi, so the safest choice would be to store the skis at the hotel. Of course, we can go to the location and pick the skis up but I wonder if we'll need a taxi to bring them to the hotel and if they'll fit in a taxi. Or maybe I overthink all this way too much.
No worries.
Are you planning on skiing Val Gardena only? The reason I ask is that, whilst both Alpe de Suisi and Seceda are good, there's a huge amount of skiing connected to the Sella Ronda, accessible from Sasslong in Santa Cristina, and Dantercepies and Ciampinoi in Selva. The runs both side of Selva are excellent and I think under explored as people tend to head off round the Ronda. For me, it would be worth a few days exploring. If your hotel shuttle goes to Seceda, it might very well go to Sasslong too. Get up early, get the first lift, then get a rake of pints in Selva before the bus back down to Ortisei.
La Stua and Krone Stube for the gentle apres, LuisKeller is a bit louder, both have a Germanic vibe and traditional austro-pop ski-schlager music. Saltos for a more Italian vibe, pose with the Ski Instructors, quaffing Franciacorta and prosciutto behind your Carrera sunglasses.
All the taxis in the valley are mini van types and will take skis. The buses in the valley are excellent. They are free (excluding the night bus), your hotel should provide the pass.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
ketya77 wrote:
Unfortunately, we won't have a car and will rely on our hotel's shuttle, which goes to Sededa, Alpe de Siusi and Jaguar point in the Ortisei center. The hotel also have a ski room with lockers and an agreement with a ski rental (a different one) that delivers skis right to the hotel (but that place doesn't have Stoeckli). It'll be our first time in Ortisei, so I can't figure out which lift we'll use more often - Seceda or Alpe de Siusi, so the safest choice would be to store the skis at the hotel.
That sounds like the best solution. You'll probably be using the Seceda lifts more as in addition to the excellent 10.5km long red run La Longia from the top of Seceda down to Ortisei, Seceda also lets you ski over to St.Christina and then Selva which is on the Sella Ronda circuit. However be sure not to miss out on skiing Alpe di Suisi, it's the largest alpine meadow area in Europe so mainly easy blues, but it's a nice area and if take the gondola up from Ortisei then ski across the Alpe di Suisi to Saltria there's an interesting cross country bus service goes from there to Monte Pana, well worth doing for the experience. Here's a YouTube video of the bus journey in the opposite direction from Monte Pana to Saltria. http://youtube.com/v/0DEgbANs-WQ&t=11s
Ortisei is the prettiest of the 3 towns in the Val Gardena valley (Selva, St. Christina and Ortisei) and has a nice pedestrianised main street (called Strada Rezia). As you're in a hotel I guess you'll be getting your evening meals at the hotel, but if you're ever in Ortisei at lunchtime then I can recommend the Maurizkeller towards the top of the pedestrianised main street, just on the corner with the path that goes across the pedestrian footbridge to the Alpe di Suisi gondola. Right next to the Maurizkeller is a nice small wine bar La CËRCIA Enoteca.
@Alastair Pink, I should also have noted that you know enough about all kinds of other stuff for you to nail the general knowledge without any problem.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
If you can tip 88 skis on hardpack, and enjoy it, then you're good.
If you think that's too much work, maybe avoid the hassle of schlepping skis from California to Italy and rent the best GS skis you can find. The quality of Val Gardena rentals is pretty good, especially early in the season...
After all it is free
After all it is free
Take your skis for sure. I take my AMs and its fine. Lugging skis over is a bit of effort but you know and love 'em, vs. renting & returning lousy skis...easy choice for me (but check the baggage rules/charges). I think it is weird how almost everybody is on slaloms over there, but whatever. The snow will be familiar to you, like Tahoe when it doesn't snow.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Scooter in Seattle,
Quote:
I take my AMs and its fine. Lugging skis over is a bit of effort but you know and love 'em
+1
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@ketya77, you've had some really good technical advice so far, so I'll just add this link to a high quality video filmed by a local hotelier with his 2 sons, exemplifying some very typical conditions in the area. Hopefully it will help with your decision whether it would be worth taking your own skis.
They start at the top of Dantercepies, drop down to Selva, then up Ciampinoi to do the Saslong, head across to Seceda, down La Longia to Ortisei, across town using the tunnels and walkways, then up onto the Alpe di Siusi rolling plateau. They return on the bus from Saltria to Monte Pana to complete the loop via Selva. The 3d route map at the end shows the full route taken. It includes a lot of the slopes that will be local to you when you're there.
Other ski videos on the channel are all filmed in the Dolomiti areas.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Mon 27-11-23 18:58; edited 2 times in total
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
ketya77 wrote:
Unfortunately, we won't have a car and will rely on our hotel's shuttle, which goes to Sededa, Alpe de Siusi and Jaguar point in the Ortisei center. The hotel also have a ski room with lockers and an agreement with a ski rental (a different one) that delivers skis right to the hotel (but that place doesn't have Stoeckli). It'll be our first time in Ortisei, so I can't figure out which lift we'll use more often - Seceda or Alpe de Siusi, so the safest choice would be to store the skis at the hotel. Of course, we can go to the location and pick the skis up but I wonder if we'll need a taxi to bring them to the hotel and if they'll fit in a taxi. Or maybe I overthink all this way too much.
It's always wise to think about the logistics in advance!
As @sean1967 said if you can get to Saslong lift in Santa Cristina that will let you access the best snow in Val Gardena which is generally found in the shadow of the Sassolungo above Plan de Gralba up to Passo Sella and Col Rodella. It will also get you quicker into the main Sella Ronda circuit.
Here is a plan of all the public buses in the valley:
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
One more question, not related to skis but to Ortisei/Val Gardena area:
are people there friendly and patient with foreign tourists or a bit tired of them? I am asking because I've been learning Italian for some time and would love to practice it while there. However, I am still not at the level of being able to express my thoughts fluently - it takes some time for me to put a sentence together. Will it annoy locals because no one has time for this? Should I rather just speak English?
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
ketya77 wrote:
One more question, not related to skis but to Ortisei/Val Gardena area:
are people there friendly and patient with foreign tourists or a bit tired of them? I am asking because I've been learning Italian for some time and would love to practice it while there. However, I am still not at the level of being able to express my thoughts fluently - it takes some time for me to put a sentence together. Will it annoy locals because no one has time for this? Should I rather just speak English?
As the region has changed hands a few times, they speak a real minestrone of languages in the valley. A lot of German is spoken, and the local Ladin mountain language, and Italian. English is widely understood. You'll notice that the towns have three names in German, Ladin and Italian.
Generally, the people are very friendly indeed and will be delighted if you speak a little Italian. The only time I've seen the bus drivers become even the slightest bit perturbed is when people, well oiled from apres, miss the last skibus and attempt to jump onto the 350 bus (not a ski bus) with the boots on, skis etc. Though if it is quiet, they often let you on. I have been one of these people a few times.
Sweat neither the language nor the ski hire, you'll have a great time.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
ketya77 wrote:
One more question, not related to skis but to Ortisei/Val Gardena area:
are people there friendly and patient with foreign tourists or a bit tired of them? I am asking because I've been learning Italian for some time and would love to practice it while there. However, I am still not at the level of being able to express my thoughts fluently - it takes some time for me to put a sentence together. Will it annoy locals because no one has time for this? Should I rather just speak English?
The locals in Val Gardena speak their local dialect of the Ladin language among themselves, they speak German to German tourists, Italian to Italian tourists and English to the rest.
So Italian isn't actually their native tongue, though they will be fluent as its included in public education and on the TV. Ladin has the same origins as Italian as it comes from the Latin of the Romans, but has developed distinctly with German influence on the Gardenese dialect. I think it sounds a lot like Catalan of NE Spain, which is of the same family of languages https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallo-Romance_languages Europe is very complex when it comes to languages, particularly in the Alps!
Some of the older Gardenese don't have English in their repertoire, so Italian or German would be needed. So maybe, pick an older person to practice your Italian with, they will be glad you made the effort.
With younger people working in the tourist industry, many speak good English, they are all friendly people and will welcome your efforts, but I would say it's best to pick and choose when you are going to try something complicated. If they are busy and have many customers waiting, they may try and speed things up and revert to English, in a spirit of wanting to help rather than impoliteness. A cheery Buongiorno, parla inglese? and Grazie mille are always appreciated.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@ketya77, a recent thread in the Dutch 'Wintersport.nl' forum was about the Austrian/Italian aspects of the Dolomites. A Dutch regular told that he had been talking about this subject with his Ortisei hoteliere. Her reaction was: "There is only one thing Italian about me, and that's my passport, nothing else."
It's an aspect some people are not aware of: Most of the Dolomites are in the former Austrian en very germanic "Süd-Tirol" region, which is only Italian since 1918. But this South-Tyrol in fact is the heartland of the well known larger Tyrol region. It is named after the village of Tirol, which nowadays is in Italy and called Tirolo...but only in Italian...
So, you can definitely practice your Italian, but if you really want to score 'sympathy' points you also might want to practice your German....
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Tue 28-11-23 12:02; edited 3 times in total
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
It’s the Wales (or Yorkshire) of Italy
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Peter S, it's much stronger than that
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
look into shipping skis. I am sending 2 pair (in one bag) from my door in the US to my hotel in Switzerland for less than $300 this season. Up to 60 lb allowance, so I can fit some other gear (e.g., pack, avy stuff) in there as well.
Offset the price of 2 rentals against that, eliminate the worry about the airlines losing your skis, skip the jetlagged schlepping of 2 pairs of skis on the train travel with a couple of changes to resort, and the economics work out for me.
@ketya77, a recent thread in the Dutch 'Wintersport.nl' forum was about the Austrian/Italian aspects of the Dolomites. A Dutch regular told that he had been talking about this subject with his Ortisei hoteliere. Her reaction was: "There is only one thing Italian about me, and that's my passport, nothing else."
It's an aspect some people are not aware of: Most of the Dolomites are in the former Austrian en very germanic "Süd-Tirol" region, which is only Italian since 1918. But this South-Tyrol in fact is the heartland of the well known larger Tyrol region. It is named after the village of Tirol, which nowadays is in Italy and called Tirolo...but only in Italian...
So, you can definitely practice your Italian, but if you really want to score 'sympathy' points you also might want to practice your German....
Gardenese first, Ladins second, Tyroleans third...and Italians a very distant fourth!!
But it's a similar situation in many regions of Italy where the local and regional identities are more important than the national one.
I suppose you can't expect it to be any other way when your country is barely 150 years old...and parts of it less than that!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
However, I am still not at the level of being able to express my thoughts fluently - it takes some time for me to put a sentence together. Will it annoy locals because no one has time for this?
I suspect that people who work in busy restaurants have no time to listen to people's thoughts in any language, unless it's about what they want to eat or drink! But it's a good opportunity to practice a little bit of restaurant Italian! And when in Italy (or indeed France) I always enjoy listening to other people, for example in shops, and picking up a few expressions. I've just come home from a group Italian lesson here on the south coast of England! It was very enjoyable, and we were all encouraged to express our thoughts, and given time, but we were paying a professional language teacher!
For the Italians the ‘Great War’ was the final chapter in Italian unification which started in 1860.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@luigi, yes, I know about the "regionality" of Italia.
But I also think that reasoning that way is somewhat underestimating the case of Süd-Tirol...
@Peter S, Süd Tirol has always been Austrian/German. Never Italian. It really is a separate case.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Langerzug wrote:
@luigi, yes, I know about the "regionality" of Italia.
But I also think that reasoning that way is somewhat underestimating the case of Süd-Tirol...
@Peter S, Süd Tirol has always been Austrian/German. Never Italian. It really is a separate case.
Ah, yes, the treaty of London...another case of the Great Powers redrawing borders and meddling where they probably shouldn't have!
The legacy of the annexation led to many frictions that didn't afflict other regions of Italy, from the Italianisation programme under Mussolini, the Option vote during WW2 which tore the population in two, to the secessionist terrorism of the 1960s. The current autonomy, favourable tax regime and resultant wealth enjoyed by South Tyrol seems to have calmed the situation down thankfully, but they do still remain Italy's most reluctant citizens.
The Italian irredentist claims to the area are based on the idea that the whole area was originally Ladin-speaking, which they considered to be another North Italian dialect, from the time of the Roman province of Rhaetia until the Middle Ages, when waves of immigration from the North brought German language and culture which gradually overtook the native population of the lower valleys, confining Ladin speakers to the isolated high valleys around the Sella group. They contended that the inhabitants of South Tyrol were really Italians that had forgotten their true identity!
Of course, the reality is probably somewhere in between and in a democracy, it's all about how the current population feel.
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Many years ago I saw a BBC programme (Newsnight/Panorama?) with the strap line "Apartheid is alive and will, living in Italy".
It as all about a town in the South Tyrol/Alto Adige were Italian speakers went to Italian schools - German speakers went to German schools.
Bit sad really - reminded me of Northern Ireland....
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@luigi,
Very similar story to many parts of the British Isles, but best not go there
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Here's a YouTube video of the bus journey in the opposite direction from Monte Pana to Saltria. 
