 Poster: A snowHead
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| vegas007 wrote: |
| So I cant even get all season tyres for my car. Have 19 plate X3 and they run run flats. So its winter tyres as a set or stick with tyres I have with chains. |
This may be of help, or an enquiry to them https://martinstyreswestend.co.uk/run-flat-tyres/ also possible to use non runflat type if needed to get a particular tyre capability.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I cant run tyres without run flat otherwise I don't have a spare tyre!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The other benefit (for me) of ditching my run flats in favour of conventional all season tyres plus an aerosol of tyre gunk is that it makes the ridiculous BMW 2 Series Active Tourer Sport suspension softer.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
I cant run tyres without run flat otherwise I don't have a spare tyre!
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I thought very few new cars came with spare tyres. Most just come with a can of sealant (must rember to replace mine) and an electic pump.
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@vegas007, also check in the owners manual if X3 fill-time 4WD can support chains. Some AWD's prohibit use of chains as it can damage the differential.
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| vegas007 wrote: |
| So I cant even get all season tyres for my car. Have 19 plate X3 and they run run flats. So its winter tyres as a set or stick with tyres I have with chains. |
CrossClimate 2 are available in run flat. Michelin call them Zero Pressure (ZP).
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Cross Climate 2 weren't run flat or not ones that I can find to fit my car. How can a German car manufacturer not considered this or is just the availability and market for these tyres in UK?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@vegas007, have you considered going down a size or two? I struggled to get winter tyres in 20" for my Audi A6, but going to 17" and thicker profile tyres (55 rather than 35) is the solution... Just need some new wheels...
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Not sure the finances stretch to a new set of rims and somewhere to store them.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
an unmodified 4x4 without chains would not have worked (I drove past 2 in the 400m).
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Most of the time, most of the people, with most of the tyres, will get to their destination resort (though getting up the last little hill to their side-street accommodation might be a challenge). But this is the reality for somebody (Idris) who drives daily in Haute Savoie. It's probably statistically perfectly sensible to bet against having extreme conditions on your one or two drives a year into the mountains. But just be aware that you might get stuck. Or get sent back down the road by the gendarmes, to get some chains to put on your spanking new snow tyres, and have another bash at it. It's perfectly rational to weigh up the odds and take the chance of not having chains. But be aware of the risk.
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I have chains and have used them so all
Good !
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You know it makes sense.
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@vegas007, Have you looked at Continental or enquired directly with BMW? You cannot be the first person to wants to use all-seasons on an X3.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| vegas007 wrote: |
| I cant run tyres without run flat otherwise I don't have a spare tyre! |
Unsure if youve experienced a puncture with runflat yet ? Undoubtedly convenient in being able to safely move the vehicle from danger, but with limitations more akin to a conventional setup once that has happened.
They can't be driven at same speed usually meaning you have to get off a fast moving road to reduce your danger of being accidentally involved in problems. Limited mileage, as far as I understand it. Likely not repairable if the tyre has damage from original puncture or being driven on in a likely fully loaded vehicle.
Availability then becomes a problem in local supply with that size and runflat specification, with two stories I've heard from directly affected car owners of being stranded in Europe while waiting delivery of their specification of tyre to continue. Runflat and no are essentially the same procedure AFTER the initial event of having a tyre deflate, both needing a spare of some sort. Just the practical limitations of suppliers on immediate demand to get you going.
If not a full sized spare, a new spare tyre that you can pack alont of soft luggage inside to avoid space wasted, looks something towards a realistic compromise as rescue services can fit that and get you moving with reasonable ease.
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Poster: A snowHead
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outside putting the snow tires on the cars
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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On my run flats the manual said 50 miles @ 50 mph max once punctured. When I had a puncture the garage (that I trust) said that they wouldn't repair them as they couldn't know if the sidewalls had been damaged by running under inflated. Not sure if the "wouldn't repair" was a legal restriction or just good practice.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Matt1959 wrote: |
| On my run flats the manual said 50 miles @ 50 mph max once punctured. When I had a puncture the garage (that I trust) said that they wouldn't repair them as they couldn't know if the sidewalls had been damaged by running under inflated. Not sure if the "wouldn't repair" was a legal restriction or just good practice. |
I think its a pragmatic legal position, once they repair it they're essentially on the hook for your safety in reality, being witin the trade and as such "experts" and they correctly point out that they've no way of judging IF there's any structural implications as they've not (as far as I understand it) means to test/verify that tyre.
Some country's tyre vendors will only sell you two tyre also, to make an axle pair for their own liability concerns.
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I believe BMW's rules are "no more than 2mm tread difference across an axle or 3mm between axles" on xDrives. If your punctured tyre's halfway through its life, you'll be told you need 4 new tyres.
That's why it really doesn't matter if you change to non run flats and carry tyre repair sealant instead. Most places won't repair a sealant filled tyre so you're into 2 or 4 new tyres after a puncture whichever system you use.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The need to pay for two new tyres arose on our first French puncture, many years ago. Puncture became evident driving off the car ferry in Calais. Changed the wheel (we had a full sized legal spare tyre) and took the punctured tyre in for repair. The garage man insisted it was "foutu" and sold us two new tyres, putting the original spare back in the car.
Some cars without space for a spare can have a retro-fitted "cage" underneath. I won't willingly drive a car without a spare, especially after dismal experience in France with a Swiss hire car equipped with a can of gunk to deal with a half inch gash inflicted by the razor sharp edge of a "nid de poule". A potentially dangerous situation (car on a snowy, winding, road with three kids in the back as dusk fell) was averted only by swift action of two other drivers in our "group", including me. We got everyone home safely, shoved the car a little further into the snow on the side of the road and then spent quite a lot of time on the phone to Europcar in Geneva airport and meeting a local French breakdown truck the following day. And taking a car and two drivers down into the valley to pick up the car and paying the huge bill (recovering and two new tyres). Ultimately paid by Europcar because I could prove I'd taken their additional insurance for tyres/wheels.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yep black circles don’t have my size. Reinforced is not the same as Run Flat in my experience.
I have driven fine off a motorway with a puncture on a run flat. Personally I would take driving off a motorway with a Run Flat than changing a tyre on the hard shoulder anywhere. For me it makes sense to run a run flat, i also assume it helps with saving fuel not lugging a heavy spare around. I ll stick with what tyres I have , with chains. On all the years I have driven in the alps, it’s nearly always been ok. I take the advice that arriving
Late onto the mountain is best avoided.
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| MHskier wrote: |
| So here's a question - would the road from Thonon to Montriond near Morzine constitute a mountain road that requires chains? We're going at new year with 3psf all season tyres fitted and it feels like this route could work (and lower?) if we know there's weather or traffic issues climbing up from Cluses to Les Gets. |
Yes. The rules apply there.
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I was just looking for some chat about all weather tyres ... only because I shod my vans front wheels with a pair of Michelin Cross Climates.
They certainly look the business, I wonder if we'll get any snow in Hertfordshire this winter.
We used to, once upon a time.
I've only worn the front tyres out, otherwise I'd have put a full set on.
Would it be legal to drive it to the alps like this (if I got the urge) or would I need the full set?
I think I can guess the answer.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| DrLawn wrote: |
I was just looking for some chat about all weather tyres ... only because I shod my vans front wheels with a pair of Michelin Cross Climates.
They certainly look the business, I wonder if we'll get any snow in Hertfordshire this winter.
We used to, once upon a time.
I've only worn the front tyres out, otherwise I'd have put a full set on.
Would it be legal to drive it to the alps like this (if I got the urge) or would I need the full set?
I think I can guess the answer. |
Good question, the answer to which I dont know.
France are certainly, or it seems so, particular about matching tyre on an axle, whereas legislation here (mot testing) seems to accept tyres of the same specification for size, load range etc, but doesn't as far as I understand it call for same manufacturer.
General trade advice here if fitting one axle set is to put them on the rear with the part worns on the front. But not absolute, just good practice for fitment.
Don't know what the Gandarmarie would make of just two marked tyres in their winter definition and jurisdiction. There's one way to find out 
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@DrLawn, Take chains and you meet the law.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Ah yes, I'll take a pair of socks for it .. you never know .. but as long as you have them on board you'll never need them.
I've a had a pair of socks in the boot of my car for 6 years now and it has kept the snow at bay.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@DrLawn, I'd question the legality of that in the UK. I'd check, as you could have a problem with insurance if it's not legal and you have a prang.
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All this highlights the contradiction for us drivers to our ski trips - we want a really good dump of snow at the beginning of the week.......but then we don't!
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You know it makes sense.
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Today you need an aqualung.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| DrLawn wrote: |
Would it be legal to drive it to the alps like this (if I got the urge) or would I need the full set?
I think I can guess the answer. |
Yeah, a set is 4 - such that all wheels have the same traction characteristic, e.g. upon braking.
The quandry is whether your spare should also be - cos it won't be so good if you try 3+1.
Ultimately, it's up to the police officer who stops you in a spot check, e.g. of all cars proceeding to ascend a snowy road. They'll decide if you meet the requirements or not.
But, that should not be the deciding factor. You should ensure your vehicle is safe to drive in the conditions. Summer tyres + chains in boot may meet the requirement, but is it safe?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| MHskier wrote: |
| All this highlights the contradiction for us drivers to our ski trips - we want a really good dump of snow at the beginning of the week.......but then we don't! |
I always think it's brilliant if dumping...putting chains on never a chore as it means unusually good skiing generally. I do try to avoid a busy time traffic wise anyway, with more reason to avoid travel if particularly heavy fall, only because of other traffic getting stuck and stopping in large jams.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Crosbie wrote: |
| DrLawn wrote: |
Would it be legal to drive it to the alps like this (if I got the urge) or would I need the full set?
I think I can guess the answer. |
Yeah, a set is 4 - such that all wheels have the same traction characteristic, e.g. upon braking.
The quandry is whether your spare should also be - cos it won't be so good if you try 3+1.
Ultimately, it's up to the police officer who stops you in a spot check, e.g. of all cars proceeding to ascend a snowy road. They'll decide if you meet the requirements or not.
But, that should not be the deciding factor. You should ensure your vehicle is safe to drive in the conditions. Summer tyres + chains in boot may meet the requirement, but is it safe? |
Unless anyone can find definitely, laws relating to mixed tyres don't appear to exist to preclude this.
As soon as you chain one axle you cause significant imbalance. Front wheel drive for example has nothing like the braking effect on rear when using chains.
Many/most commercial small size use traction tyres and steering tyres specifically for front and rear.
There's many other practical shifts in balance front to rear than tread pattern.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| ski3 wrote: |
| Unless anyone can find definitely, laws relating to mixed tyres don't appear to exist to preclude this. |
| Quote: |
In areas established by prefects, vehicles must:
either have metal snow chains or snow socks in their trunk allowing at least two drive wheels to be fitted;
or be equipped with 4 winter tires, mounted on at least 2 wheels of each axle. |
From https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/actualites/A14389
As far as 'laws' are concerned, I gather that these still await ratification.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I had better just fly then 
I was disspointed when I spec'd a new car (7 years ago now) to have all weather tyres ... but they don't have the three peaks logo on the side.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Incidentally, one thing rarely mentioned is the reverse, i.e. 'driving from France in winter'.
When you leave a ski resort and your car has been parked outside, enjoying a thick covering of snow, it is not good enough simply to clear the windows and mirrors. The police take a very dim view of anyone attempting to drive off with snow on their car, and if you're lucky you'll be sent back with a reprimand to more properly prepare your car for the road, i.e. to clear ALL snow from it - such that it doesn't avalanche off in front of someone as soon as you hit 70km/h (possibly causing a terrible accident).
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Dr Lawn
I wouldn't put new tyres on the front of a car with old ones on the back even if they were the same sort of tyre. You want the back of the car to stick to the road better than the front does, so you want the grippier tyres on the rear. This is so that if one pair of wheels unsticks it is the front wheels not the back. If the rear wheels lose grip and the front maintain it, the back end will go past the front!
Therefore with snow tyres on the front and ordinary on the back you are asking to end up in a ditch!
The bigger problem with driving in snow is stopping, not starting. Four-wheel drive cars will happily set off; but they will crash. Snow tyres on the front (of a FWD car) will get you going, but won't help you to stop.
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| Quote: |
I had better just fly then
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Just get some chains. Simple. No need to change your life style! Tyres are really quite cheap compared to, say, ski passes for a family. Having good tyres, with plenty of life left in them, is a no-brainer. My "new" car was 6 years old, but had done less than 6K miles. I bought new tyres (Michelin Cross Climate, which were not remotely expensive) because the old ones had spent too much time sitting around. It was not a great extravance.
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I wouldn't put new tyres on the front of a car with old ones on the back
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I once put cheep new tyres on the back end of my car and found it quite alarming. The stability control was coming on all the time in bends at modest speeds (slight exageration). I swapped them over to the front and everythig was fine. Put the best tyres on the back and the poorest on the front. Remember that the front wheels are going to be doing most of the stopping as well.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Thu 2-11-23 14:07; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Crosbie wrote: |
| ski3 wrote: |
| Unless anyone can find definitely, laws relating to mixed tyres don't appear to exist to preclude this. |
| Quote: |
In areas established by prefects, vehicles must:
either have metal snow chains or snow socks in their trunk allowing at least two drive wheels to be fitted;
or be equipped with 4 winter tires, mounted on at least 2 wheels of each axle. |
From https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/actualites/A14389
As far as 'laws' are concerned, I gather that these still await ratification. |
Thats an either or direction not a statement of which tyre you HAVE to have fitted. In reality its not a tyre law as such, more preparedness to avoid them having to come and rescue you, or you causing disruption that they need ontingency to correct for all those travelling. It's not a construction and use directive, just to avoid having to deal with the consequences, which are different things, although granted they run concentric to one another
The law allows you to travel there with the "skid-iest" " summer type tires you may have, as long as you've chains/socks to fit them, on at least one axle it seems.
The given tyre combination from dr lawn can run there legally in reality, by their own description.
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| Quote: |
The law allows you to travel there with the "skid-iest" " summer type tires you may have, as long as you've chains/socks to fit them
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Exactly. It's prescribing the minimum provision consistent with some regard not just to your own safety but the convenience of other road users. And that also means having the awareness and knowledge to fit the damn chains at the first sign of loss of traction.
Anyone in a vehicle well equipped to cope with mountain traditions will comply with the French law. It's really pretty simple!
I don't think French law requires visiting UK cars to comply with French practice about not mixing tyres on one axle. Whatever dubious collection you have, you'll be fine with chains or snow socks in the boot. But if you have a puncture, as I describe above, you'll likely have to buy two tyres.
As with the law about the legal amount of tread required on a car, complying (jist.....) with the law is no guarantee of safety or good practice.
In a traditional ICE car checking the condition of your battery before driving to the snow is a sensible precaution.
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FAQ
