 Poster: A snowHead
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| DJL wrote: |
| Rob_Quads wrote: |
| DJL wrote: |
If you look in the handbook there are frequently more than one size of wheel/tyre specified. In my case (Skoda Scout) the fitting for winter tyres is for a 16" wheel and narrower tyres. I work on the basis that both the 17" wheels fitted and the 16" ones on which my winter tyres are fitted are standard so not a modification. |
You might want to check with your insurer - Aviva would disagree with you for sure. I am fitting smaller wheels to my Model Y with all-season tyres - the smaller ones are standard fit from Tesla but Aviva said if I change the alloy to anything other than what the car was supplied on they count it as a modification and for them they won't insure me... so I've had to switch insurers  |
How would they know that you had changed them rather than specified them when you bought the car? |
Quite easy - most companies record the spec of the car as sold so it's very easy for them to check. Certainly easy for mine if they wanted to.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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My Audi has at least 6 tyre size combos on the plate on the drivers door. So, clearly they are all authorised by the manufacturer.
The original alloys came in 2 or 3 sizes according to taste.
Trouble is they all have different pressures and I can never remember which I need.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| chocksaway wrote: |
My Audi has at least 6 tyre size combos on the plate on the drivers door. So, clearly they are all authorised by the manufacturer.
The original alloys came in 2 or 3 sizes according to taste.
Trouble is they all have different pressures and I can never remember which I need. |
For the most part they all ultimately have the same radius, and by default circumference to hold the chassis at same height for crash structures to comply with their type approval.
Most vehicles with a range of spec aren't lower or higher as such to keep all the crash beams to homologated level, bigger rims smaller aspect tyres and lower body trim elements create that illusion.
The Audi, in common with others I think, have a build label in the boot/load area spare wheel space that lists the factory line build including options to tell what was originally supplied.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @DanishRider, aren't Teslas RW dominant? |
Absolutely- Depending on the mode you have it in 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My wife’s Skoda has a menu setting in the car menu saying “winter tyres”. I have no idea what it does but doubt it is an emulation in software. Some changes to the stability control perhaps?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| johnE wrote: |
| My wife’s Skoda has a menu setting in the car menu saying “winter tyres”. I have no idea what it does but doubt it is an emulation in software. Some changes to the stability control perhaps? |
Often it’s just to switch between the different sets of TPMS - Not sure about Skoda.
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@johnE, that’s probably because often (but not always) winter tyres have a lower max speed rating than their non-winter equivalents.
We have a Skoda and that is the reason given in our manual.
I doubt it’s to do with TPMS.
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| Inboard wrote: |
@johnE, that’s probably because often (but not always) winter tyres have a lower max speed rating than their non-winter equivalents.
We have a Skoda and that is the reason given in our manual.
I doubt it’s to do with TPMS. |
If you go above a set speed then a reminder is displayed on the dash about winter tyres. Driver sets the speed of warning before setting off after fitting tyres.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Inboard wrote: |
@johnE, that’s probably because often (but not always) winter tyres have a lower max speed rating than their non-winter equivalents.
We have a Skoda and that is the reason given in our manual.
I doubt it’s to do with TPMS. |
Come to think about it - My Cupra actually had this feature (same platform as Skoda), and you could indeed set a max speed for your winter tyre, and get a warning when exceeding it.
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| DanishRider wrote: |
| Inboard wrote: |
@johnE, that’s probably because often (but not always) winter tyres have a lower max speed rating than their non-winter equivalents.
We have a Skoda and that is the reason given in our manual.
I doubt it’s to do with TPMS. |
Come to think about it - My Cupra actually had this feature (same platform as Skoda), and you could indeed set a max speed for your winter tyre, and get a warning when exceeding it. |
Seems sensible. Contrary to the the common view of tyre speed rating, it's not a problem running a vehicle with lesser speed rating than original fitment (winter tyres historically had lower maximum speed ratings) but legally and prudently not exceeding the speed rating of the tyre fitted at that time.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| ski3 wrote: |
| DanishRider wrote: |
| Inboard wrote: |
@johnE, that’s probably because often (but not always) winter tyres have a lower max speed rating than their non-winter equivalents.
We have a Skoda and that is the reason given in our manual.
I doubt it’s to do with TPMS. |
Come to think about it - My Cupra actually had this feature (same platform as Skoda), and you could indeed set a max speed for your winter tyre, and get a warning when exceeding it. |
Seems sensible. Contrary to the the common view of tyre speed rating, it's not a problem running a vehicle with lesser speed rating than original fitment (winter tyres historically had lower maximum speed ratings) but legally and prudently not exceeding the speed rating of the tyre fitted at that time. |
At least in Germany, you are only allowed to run a winter tyre with a lower speed rating, if you have a sticker visible to driver that states the max speed, or a feature that warns you if exceeding the max speed. Skoda being built on a VW platform, most likely have that feature like the rest of the VAG cars.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The Association of British Insurers (ABI) has agreed on a single listing of which insurers do and don't require declaration of winter tyre fitment:
The ABI Winter Commitment
Look up your insurer there. by all means contact them to be doubly sure, but armed with the commitment you should be able to tell them what their own company has stated if they contradict you. You'll see most major insurers don't require notification. Of those listed, only three [correction] require notification.
That said, don't get caught out by the generic issue of fitting non-certified wheels or tyres to your particular vehicle. What's certified is on the door pillar of most cars. For example on mine:
which isn't the easiest thing to interpret! But working through it, I have three sizes of wheel and tyre certified for winters (the 'M+S' on the label). Unfortunately, the label doesn't tell me a few other things: the wheel size (either 7.5J or 7J = 7½" or 7"), that all four wheels and tyres have to be the same size (unlike the ex-factory, summer configuration, where the rear wheels are wider than the front); and whether chains will fit or not.
For example, above, I can fit 225/40 R 18 winter tyres, but they can't take conventional chains. If I fit this size, I have to get front-fitting (i.e. front of the rear wheels, not the front wheels) chains like the Spike Spiders or Thule K-Summits, which don't have any bits behind the tyre.
When the auto manufacturer says chains can't be fitted, it is almost always because on conventional chains, the chain links and wires on the inside of the tyre are likely to foul the suspension, brake pipes and on FWD cars the steering arms. Especially when it's quite likely they might not be fully-tightened. It's nothing to do with the overall diameter of the wheel, which stays consistent whatever change you make to the wheel diameter and tyre sidewall height. Or rather, it should remain consistent:
So a key message here is just because the chain size is the same as your tyre size, it doesn't mean they will fit your car safely. Because the tyre size is not directly related to how much free space there will be behind it. Which is the important thing. This is where your Owners Manual is important, or better still, the advice of your car dealer's service department. If you're renting chains, it's important to be 100% certain that they're not just using the tyre size - but are checking the vehicle manufacturer's specifications as well.
Also, check what traction settings you need to make in your car when wearing chains and/or on snow. You don't want to be looking this up at the last minute as you drive onto the first patch of snow en route, or just after you've fitted the chains.
Finally, bear in ming the recommended minimum tread depth for winter tyres is 4mm, whatever the legal minimum may be. Below that, they quickly lose thier snow traction, albeit you'll get some benefit from the cold-weather compounds on tarmac. [Edit]
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much  on Mon 6-11-23 12:12; edited 3 times in total
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You know it makes sense.
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Quick question. What's the winter tyre tread depth in france?
UK 1.6mm
Austria 4mm (winter) & 1.6mm (summer)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@WASHOUT, Funnily enough I was looking at my rear tyres today and thinking they're probably a bit "Light" for France, would be interested in the answer on this
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Poster: A snowHead
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I stuck on new winters start of last season for austria and swapped back to old winter to kill over summer. Unfortunately I used a new garage (family friend) to change tyres back over, they charged me £25 a corner to change... wasn't worth it. Should have just stuck on summer wheels myself.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@LaForet, 3, not 2, require notification
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| LaForet wrote: |
The Association of British Insurers (ABI) has agreed on a single listing of which insurers do and don't require declaration of winter tyre fitment:
The ABI Winter Commitment
Look up your insurer there. by all means contact them to be doubly sure, but armed with the commitment you should be able to tell them what their own company has stated if they contradict you. You'll see most major insurers don't require notification. Of those listed, only two require notification.
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Note your mixing up two different things here. The ABI commitment is only to fit "Winter Tyres", there is no mention of allowing a change of wheel/alloy
Each car does have a number of certified wheel/tyre combinations so that it can support different sized wheels for different models etc but this is completely separate to anything specific to winter tyres. Ignoring the winter tyres if you changed your wheels from 17" to 19" even if both are on the official stamp that still counts as a modification (Your insurer may or may not allow this depending on their own policies)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I don't have to change over old winters then for the drive out of psb.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The minimum tread depth for winter tyres is recommended as 4mm, whatever the legal minimum tread may be. Below that, their snow capabilities degrade rapidly, although you'll still get the benefit of the cold-weather compounds on tarmac.
Bear in mind that even for summer tyres, many performance ones suffer extended braking distance below 3mm or so. Basically, they 'buy' consistent shorter braking distance for 8>3mm at the expense of worse braking distance below that. This is on the assumption that someone who can afford a performance car and £150+ tyres is more interested in consistent, shorter braking distance than in extended mileage.
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Mon 6-11-23 12:06; edited 1 time in total
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| WASHOUT wrote: |
Quick question. What's the winter tyre tread depth in france?
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I don't think there's an official limit specific for winters, the legal minimum tread depth remains 1.6mm. But most manufacturers seem to recommend 3.5mm. (one if them actually states that this is a different legal limit, but doesn't point to where that may be specified.)
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Winter tyres have two sets of wear bars, one at 1.6mm, the other at 4mm. I think its clear what that message is giving. They may be legal at >1.6mm but they don't work very well at <4mm
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Rob_Quads wrote: |
| LaForet wrote: |
The Association of British Insurers (ABI) has agreed on a single listing of which insurers do and don't require declaration of winter tyre fitment:
The ABI Winter Commitment
Look up your insurer there. by all means contact them to be doubly sure, but armed with the commitment you should be able to tell them what their own company has stated if they contradict you. You'll see most major insurers don't require notification. Of those listed, only two require notification.
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Note your mixing up two different things here. The ABI commitment is only to fit "Winter Tyres", there is no mention of allowing a change of wheel/alloy
Each car does have a number of certified wheel/tyre combinations so that it can support different sized wheels for different models etc but this is completely separate to anything specific to winter tyres. Ignoring the winter tyres if you changed your wheels from 17" to 19" even if both are on the official stamp that still counts as a modification (Your insurer may or may not allow this depending on their own policies) |
Isn't this exactly what I go on to make a point of saying?
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| LaForet wrote: |
| Isn't this exactly what I go on to make a point of saying? |
Sorry - Thats not quite how I read the rest of the message which is more around what you can and can't put chains on.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| DJL wrote: |
| Winter tyres have two sets of wear bars, one at 1.6mm, the other at 4mm. I think its clear what that message is giving. They may be legal at >1.6mm but they don't work very well at <4mm |
Some do, but not all tyres have wear bars at all, and certainly I've had winter ones without an extra bar like you describe.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Chaletbeauroc, 1.6mm wear bars are a legal requirement on all tyres sold in the EU.
I've seen some winters with 4mm wear bars but Michelin, for instance, have a continuous wear bar on their winter tyres with markings at 6/4/2mm as well as the final 1.6mm.
Not saying it's right, but it's notable that on their website, they make no mention anywhere that I can see to suggest changing your winter tyres due to tread depth, all their changeover advice is based around ambient temperature +/- 7c. Their great longevity/mileage claims (for winter tyres) are based on running the tyre down to 1.6mm.
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I mentioned a page or two back about having to drive out on Summers towards the end of this month and whether to chance it without chains as all my winter gear is in Serre Che (I wasn't planning to be in the UK this long), but thought I'd bite the bullet and get chains here as a sort of insurance policy as it were.
Ordered the chains up based on my wheel size etc and then thought about delivery options, or collect from the "shop" as it's en route to where my Mother is in her home, so two birds with one stone etc
Rang them up and then ended up having a very interesting phone call, where I learnt a few interesting factoids, so end result I'm going up there to meet the guy and do a better fit etc
Basically, it's not just your wheel size and clearance but the actual thickness of the chain to consider, what was good for a T5 Transporter does not now work on a T6, which might explain the difficulty I was having trying to fit my old Thule Easy Fit chains when even with a 4x4 & winters I could not get up the 17% slope on the ice to my home!
I'm going up there in the next couple of weeks prior to driving out so will report back etc
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You know it makes sense.
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| Je suis un Skieur wrote: |
@Chaletbeauroc, 1.6mm wear bars are a legal requirement on all tyres sold in the EU.
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I was pretty sure, but have just been out to check my Landy, and no, there are no wear indicator bars ( BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO2). So I'm not sure how they're managed to circumvent the rules if there are any. Do you have a reference for this?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Weathercam, Isn't it good when you come across someone who really knows about the stuff they're selling!
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Chaletbeauroc, maybe I should have worded it better. I believe the legal requirement would be for designated on-road use. As your tyres are All-Terrain they are probably classed as specialist off-road use so may not be covered by the same legislation?
But if you want to go through it all it's here, this is the legislation Michelin refer to, Section 6.3 is Tread Wear Indicators: https://unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/r030r3e.pdf
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Chaletbeauroc, but having said that, if I look at an image of a BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A KO2 on the internet, I can see the tread wear indicators. They are the little triangles between the big blocks. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191544746285
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Je suis un Skieur, I guess they must just be well hidden then. The rules would still apply to any road legal tyre, which these most certainly are.
Anyway, I was really only commenting to point out that the 4mm mark mentioned for winter tyre wear is not universal or mandated, which seems to be the case from the document you linked.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| I was really only commenting to point out that the 4mm mark mentioned for winter tyre wear is not universal or mandated. |
Agreed.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Ask a tyre manufacturer directly what their recommendation is for the minimum winter tyre tread depth, and you'll get told that once you reach 4mm, you should think about replacing them if you are likely to encounter snow. It's not a fixed point - more a case of somewhere between 4>3mm. Given the lead time on people's free time, plus that at certain times the stocks will be low, the 4mm point is a good point to start to plan to replace them.
It also is useful advice for anyone who is reaching the end of the winter and whose winter tyres are at 4mm: if you just swap tyres on the same rims, then you might opt to throw them away rather than keep them all summer, put them on, and then have to swap them not long after. If you have winter wheels as well as tyres, then leave them on over the summer, and consider replacing them before you re-fit the winterwheels next season.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
| @Weathercam, Isn't it good when you come across someone who really knows about the stuff they're selling! |
That's so true, I'm an absolute sucker for that along with good service.
A good friend runs a very small Aladins Cave of a Water Sports shop and his advice is just on another level, even something as simple as buying a wetsuit which most do Online now, comes down to knowledge of sizing & material, as I recently found out, as modern-day wetsuit materials are very different to the classic suit of 15+ years ago.
The thickness of the actual chain I'd never heard/thought about ?
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Apologies for continuing the drift but this thread seems to have wandered a long way from the original topic already
For several years I’ve had two sets of wheels, one shod with ‘normal’ tyres and one with Winters. I change from one set to the other twice a year - like lots of other people. I think I told my insurers the first time I changed to Winters then found the ABI list of insurers who said they didn’t need to be told so I mentioned it no more.
I’m now feeling pretty stupid that I didn’t think about the change of wheels which I’m sure all insurers will view as a modification. Fortunately, I’ve not had to make a claim so my oversight hasn’t been an issue but I’ve just done a live-chat thingy with DiectLine who tell me they would expect to be told every time I change wheels over (so twice a year) and, although they wouldn’t be bothered by the swap to / from Winter tyres, they would expect to charge me an admin fee for the wheel swap.
I can see their pov but it still seems a bit daft as the Winters are on a set of cheap alloys so at no point does the accident risk or the value of the car increase from what they quoted from ie. an unmodified car
What do the rest if you on here do when you swap wheels & tyres? Do you tell insurers and do they charge you for the change?
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As most premium cars have crap small wheels as standard, so you have to spec an upgrade from the off, I don’t see their point unless your winter wheels are not OEM wheels.
I’ve never told my insurance that, yes I have a brand new BMW with the upgraded xxx style wheels.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| I don’t see their point unless your winter wheels are not OEM wheels. . |
“… the Winters are on a set of cheap alloys”
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| Red Leon wrote: |
| Jonny996 wrote: |
| I don’t see their point unless your winter wheels are not OEM wheels. . |
“… the Winters are on a set of cheap alloys” |
Then yes I would be tempted to tell them.
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FAQ
