 Poster: A snowHead
|
Anyone a BASI member and got this email?
| Quote: |
Hi Anna,
Voting is now open for members to select their preferred candidate for appointment by the Board as Chair-Elect.
The two candidates have been vetted to ensure they have the correct skills, experience and capabilities.
Profiles of the two candidates are available on the voting page highlighting their skills and experience, however the identity of each candidate will remain anonymous to members. BASI staff and Board Members that have not been involved in the vetting process are also unaware of the candidates' identities; this has been done to remove any risk of unconscious bias from the election. If you’re able to identify any candidate from their profiles on our website, we ask that you respect the integrity of this process and don’t share the information.
The successful candidate will be revealed at the General Meeting and, when appointed, will begin to work alongside the current Chair and Board for a transition period which ends when the next Board of Directors are identified and selected |
Is this a new thing in the UK? Hiding the names of the candidates seems absolutely full on fruit loop nuts to me. Am I just out of touch? Do other organisations do this? Will we shortly be voting for anonymous MPs?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
It is an interesting idea. Not unlike recruitment these days where CVS are anonimised. Maybe we'd get better MPs if we voted on profiles and policies only?
Or a huge surprise!!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@Gämsbock, I got it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| davidof wrote: |
It is an interesting idea. Not unlike recruitment these days where CVS are anonimised. Maybe we'd get better MPs if we voted on profiles and policies only?
Or a huge surprise!!! |
If all the candidates were all fresh into politics then anonymity might be a good idea to remove the aspect of voting for the donkey wearing your coloured rosette, but if the likes of Johnson were making the promises I'd want to know they were being made by a serial liar.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| musher wrote: |
| davidof wrote: |
It is an interesting idea. Not unlike recruitment these days where CVS are anonimised. Maybe we'd get better MPs if we voted on profiles and policies only?
Or a huge surprise!!! |
If all the candidates were all fresh into politics then anonymity might be a good idea to remove the aspect of voting for the donkey wearing your coloured rosette, but if the likes of Johnson were making the promises I'd want to know they were being made by a serial liar. |
Isn't that what the vetting process should examine?
You might also be surprised how popular the Johnson brand is
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
@Gämsbock, did you read the statements? Both a bit too long tbh.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Gämsbock wrote: |
| Anyone a BASI member and got this email? |
Yup - the anonymous voting is an absolute shambles.
I agree with principal the chair should be someone whose views are not tainted by personal business interests.
However : I want to be able to look that person in the eye, ask a question or google their history.
Ultimately I am voting for a person to fill the role, not a CV.
On matter of principal I refuse to vote for someone whose identity has been deliberately kept secret.
The only option was to log in and formally "abstain".
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
How odd. Maybe there should have been a vote on anonymous voting before this went ahead 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| davidof wrote: |
| @Gämsbock, did you read the statements? Both a bit too long tbh. |
I have now. I agree they are rather long but I think they have to be, given there is no ability to find out anything else about the candidates. I’m really struggling to get past that - the statements seem both over long but also lacking in information as a result.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
This really made me smile. I wonder when the candidates appear at the hustings to answer questions from members they have to appear with sacks over their heads and artificial voice translators to hide their voices.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
This seems entirely wrong to me. This: "this has been done to remove any risk of unconscious bias", if you have had dealings with the particular candidate and found them to be appallingly terrible (or equally, fantastically good), it is for you to make your own mind up, IMHO.
No one is going to say in their own statement, 'I quite like bullying and getting my own way' are they?
Ultimately, I'm not a member so it makes little difference to me, but hiding the candidate just seems wrong to me.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
Seems bats to me, especially in a small organisation such as BASI. It gives an awful lot of powers to the vetting staff (who elected them and were they open to bias?) a bit like HR depts screening out people for recruitment based on social media analysis.
@johnE, Surely they would be wearing helmets and a snood and answering the questions in their second language?!?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I think having anonymised applications has a lot of merit particularly in entry level jobs where it has been proven time and time again that prejudice exists against non-mother tongue names. Here in Glasgow those in the know gain a lot of knowledge about a person’s background from where they went to school and this in turn leads to unfair recruitment practices.
However, on the flip side when reference points are removed applications become bland and peppered with stock phrases that applicants in the know will score well against because they understand the system.
In this particular case, I read the first application and quickly decided I could not vote for the person because of the plethora of stock phrases. Unfortunately, the second was not much better and I decided to record an abstention 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
anonymised applications are becoming the norm. That shouldn't, if the process is well designed, reduce everybody to "stock phrases". If I were dealing with a controversial appointment in a small membership organisation though I would want to have had the process approved by members, for the sort of reason @chocksaway mentions.
As for "stock phrases" if an application form is well designed and makes it clear that candidates will be judged on evidence rather than assertion (stupidities such as "I am a self-starter") it should be possible to avoid them.
Some super-anonymised application processes are absurd. My daughter grappled with one which both insisted that no period of time should be unaccounted for and precluded any indication of gender. She struggled with how to deal with two periods of maternity leave.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@pam w, if you are on maternity leave your employment continues - your welcome.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
Yes if you are with the same employer before and after, which is not necessarily the case.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Just put it down as child care...that's gender non specific
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@pam w, in which case it is not leave, but a career break or as @holidayloverxx suggests ‘child care’ or perhaps simply caring responsibilities. You are similarly not required to account for for periods of holiday or a trip to the cinema.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Yes, "child care" is a good idea. Or even "family responsibilities". Of course I realise you are not expected to account for a trip to the cinema. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
I read both a few times and even compared to previous Chair Job descriptions. I respect the BASI request to not share the information so I'll not add detail. I would like to know more about the people so I can decide that they can see where are BASI now and how they can help take them to where they want to be in a year, 3 years and 5 years.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
For context, I've been involved in other trade associations to do with my work. Is the chair in BASI a paid employee or a member who will be the public face of the organisation. If the former then the process whilst absurd might be normal, if it's the latter then in a membership organisation it feels wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@GlasgowCyclops, the application forms for a job like that should surely ask about their plans for the organisation - in very concrete terms which would discourage stock phrases. Wanting to know how they'd set about the job is surely fundamental? I'm not a member - but can understand the concern.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If I was a conspiracy theorist my suspicions would be:
- it all looks a bit of a stitch-up
- there are only 5 existing directors (as per Companies House), when there should be 6-12. One or more of those 5 might be candidates for Chair-Elect, as not all of them have been involved in vetting.
-not identifying the candidates could mean it is difficult for the members to challenge the announced results. It seems quite possible that only the successful candidate will be identified.
- whichever the members vote, the Chair is appointed by the Directors - so they can ignore the vote if they wish and just pick their preferred candidate. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Ski lots wrote: |
In this particular case, I read the first application and quickly decided I could not vote for the person because of the plethora of stock phrases. Unfortunately, the second was not much better and I decided to record an abstention |
I wasn't hugely impressed either. Apart from being overly long the first was, as you say, a little too cowdoo central without saying how he or she would really achieve what they plan. The second was less professional and I wondered if I was being led to vote for 1? Like a French presidential election where there is one centrist and two extremists.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Yes if you are with the same employer before and after, which is not necessarily the case. |
If it’s maternity leave then surely employed by someone, otherwise not maternity leave.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
Is BASI even relevant anymore? Post Brexit what is their point other than a legacy run out organisation? How do they secure working rights and recognition for aspirant members in Europe?
OK some domestic teaching maybe....
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Is BASI even relevant anymore? |
As a qualification BASI was / is well respected at each of the respective levels. Arguably they had to maintain high standards : the default alpine perception is that brits can't ski.
The sad irony is that in recent decades BASI transformed from it's Cairngorm roots to esteemed Alpine association. For right or wrong : they sold off the office in Grantown and last connection with Spey valley historical roots was gone.
Brexit then changed everything overnight. Any youngster aspiring to teach skiing has to jump additional hurdle of becoming an EU citizen. How do you train for L3 or L4 if you can't (easily) live and work in Alps? Climate change also making ski instruction a less attractive long term career.
Arguably BASI will be forced to go full circle. Brexit means that domestic market (dry slopes, domes & Scotland) might become of more importance once again.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Is BASI even relevant anymore? |
As a qualification BASI used to be well respected at each of the respective levels. Arguably they had to maintain high standards : the default alpine perception is that brits can't ski.
The sad irony is that in recent years BASI had transformed from it's Cairngorm roots to esteemed alpine association. For right or wrong : they sold off the office in Grantown and last connection with Spey valley historical roots was gone.
Brexit then changed everything overnight. Any youngster aspiring to teach skiing has to jump additional hurdle of becoming an EU citizen. How do you train for L3 or L4 if you can't (easily) live and work in Alps? Climate change also making ski instruction a less attractive long term career.
Arguably BASI will be forced to go full circle. Brexit means that domestic market (dry slopes, domes & Scotland) might become of more importance once again. |
seems the French are still trying it on
Irish qualifs vs France, decision from December 2022
https://www.dalloz.fr/documentation/Document?id=TA_GRENOBLE_2022-12-26_2000362#texte-integral
the Grenoble court decided that a Level 4 Alpine is not sufficient to teach in France. The plaintif made some administrative errors however the court laid the obligation on the plaintif to prove why his qualification was sufficent to teach in France. Conclusion, don't hold your breath to teach in France without the eurotest.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
BASI chair elected
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
A female BASI chair is long overdue. The real talking point is actively selecting someone from a non-snowsport background to fill the role. In theory this guarantee's they can't have a conflict of interest. The downside is that you might get a faceless corporate robot (doesnt understand the industry) whose main motivation is to enhance the list of multiple NED roles on their CV.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| A female BASI chair is long overdue. The real talking point is actively selecting someone from a non-snowsport background to fill the role. In theory this guarantee's they can't have a conflict of interest. The downside is that you might get a faceless corporate robot (doesnt understand the industry) whose main motivation is to enhance the list of multiple NED roles on their CV. |
a nice summary of the situation.
212 people voted, maybe put off by the way the election was organised.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
I thought both candidates were quite strong on paper and good to hear the recruitment process was so thorough. Hopefully Davinder will continue with the good work Jimmy put in and I for one was most pleased to hear that He will continue on the International negotiations.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
