 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm hoping this is the right place to post this, this forum definitely seems like the most active to ask. Basically I'm looking for advice from anyone who's done a working season in France or knows about it.
My partner and I (27) are both from Australia. We also both have UK passports in case that's relevant. We will be travelling Europe this year and would LOVE to settle into a resort in the French Alps to work a season. We are wondering what the process is for getting a job and what the typical arrangement is. We'd like to work in bars so we have as much time to board as possible but are completely happy to work as much as needed. We also know basic french and are learning further.
Is it as simple as emailing bars in the desired resorts with a resume and ask for a job?
Also are you paid a liveable wage considering accomodation costs? Or do bars ever package accomodation into your wage?
Is there any benefit to going through companies like Crystal considering you don't get to choose where you go? Would prefer somewhere with good nightlife, Val-d'Isère or Les 3 Vallées look appealing in this aspect..
Any advice is appreciated 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Newy, doesn’t sound like you have a right to work in France, if you only have an Australian and UK passport. With what visa are you entering the EU?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| ster wrote: |
| @Newy, doesn’t sound like you have a right to work in France, if you only have an Australian and UK passport. With what visa are you entering the EU? |
Sorry I forgot to mention we would be getting a working holiday visa (WHV).
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@Newy, i'm coming at this having had no experience in this myself, but, if i were you i'd find a few locations you'd be happy living/working in and then find a load of bars and fire away emails, or try and visit during the summer to speak to them.
As you only have basic French, i'd probably aim for somewhere which has a lot of Brits which you've picked up on with the 3V's and Val D, you could Tignes as well, maybe somewhere like Morzine could work also?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| swskier wrote: |
@Newy, i'm coming at this having had no experience in this myself, but, if i were you i'd find a few locations you'd be happy living/working in and then find a load of bars and fire away emails, or try and visit during the summer to speak to them.
As you only have basic French, i'd probably aim for somewhere which has a lot of Brits which you've picked up on with the 3V's and Val D, you could Tignes as well, maybe somewhere like Morzine could work also? |
Yeah I think that looks like the best option for now too. Cheers!
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@Newy, do you know how thw WHV works in France ( I have no idea). I.e. do employers have to have advertised the job to locals unsuccessfully first? I'd be checking out the Pôle Emploi (Employment office) but apply directly first. If you only have basic French you probably want somewhere that's quite anglophonic ... (e.g. Chamonix, Morzine, ...)
Accomodation, at least round here was a nightmare last winter but jobs often come with basic accomodation.
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@Newy,
Top advice - apply to everyone anywhere - a season is great whatever you do & wherever you do it.
Season work is basically split between UK tour operators (TOs) and the rest.
TOs offer a package (generally travel to & from resort, insurance, accommodation & food, lift pass, one or two full days off, and even some money), the package depending on the TO. On the down side you'd be unlikely to have any say on where you would be in the Alps, though some specialise in one or a few resorts. Look at igluski.com/ski-operators and alpineanswers.co.uk/ski-chalet-tour-operators to get leads on TOs , but some on there lists may have folded. PM Frosty the Snowman - his lad has just finished the season in Vd'I with Le Ski (a lead!) to ask what package he got.
The rest covers a lot, but generally other UK based Alpine businesses and local businesses. I worked a season in Meribel for the Mountain Trading Company, a subsidiary of Mark Warner (TO), at the Rond Point bar/restaurant (they no longer have it - it is independent, so 3 more leads). We got the above package plus a bit. Hopefully others on Snowheads will know of other such UK businesses.
Local businesses are where you are really going to work on your research. Going down this route I'd recommend picking a few ski areas you fancy & seeing what you can find. Many of these won't offer a package, or maybe a partial one. The rest would be up to you to sort out - the real problem here is accommodation. For leads try the seasonnaire group pages on Facebook, but don't expect anything at present - most businesses will be on postseason holiday!
Many TOs, especially the smaller ones, plus private chalet owners, like couples running their chalets. Consider taking a chalet cookery course.
Re mountain time - the jobs that offer the most of it are also the most sought after, and hence difficult for newbies to land. Most bars/restaurants I can think of are open through the day (but not all - see below) - we did at the Rond Point (aka the Ronnie) - something to bear in mind. Two exceptions I can think of in Tignes are the Queue de Cochon and the Niurou Steakhouse, though that could change in the future, obviously.
Just as background I worked at the Ronnie 1996/97 as the accountant, skiing 5 days a week (day off Thursday, ski to bank Mon, Tue ,Wed,Fri with takings in the early morning - whether I wanted or not, then free to ski 'til 3pm. Weekends I didn't see the sun). I later did 4 seasons in Tignes with the best of jobs - skibum - 2005/05 to 2008/09.
If you are looking to try & choose your ski areas I'd recommend 3Valleys, Paradiski and Espace Killy (aka Tignes-Val d'Isere) - mega-size ski areas that receive plenty of English speaking punters & have many local businesses aimed at them.
Good luck, and ask any more questions on here - Snowheads has plenty of ex (and current) seasonnaires.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 11-05-23 15:41; edited 4 times in total
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@Kenzie, while I know nothing about them the daughter of a local friend also worked last season with Le Ski (in her case in Courchevel) so that might be a useful lead when looking for an operator recruiting non-French staff.
Last edited by After all it is free  on Thu 11-05-23 20:37; edited 1 time in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Newy, just reflecting about it, if your visas permit, if I were you I'd be looking for bar jobs and if money's not a big issue, dishwashing. You typically get more time on the hill. "Chalet" jobs, if you can find one, are somewhat more structured. But if you can handle working 16h00-02h00 5 days a week (or whatever) that's alot of potential skiing time.
Also, again, only from what I hear round here, bars are very keen to find people ... especially anglophone (although some French does help).
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Just realised I probably posted in the wrong topic, oops!
@underanewname that's what I'm thinking! I haven't worked a bar job in years after graduating but all I hear wherever I am in the world is how everywhere is struggling for bar staff so hoping I don't find it too hard..
@Kenzie Amazing! Thanks for all that info, appreciate it and I'll look into it all
@j b cheers, will look into Le Ski
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Newy, yeah, whether it's getting better I don't know but there were some pretty wild packages on offer at the start of last season for hospitality staff.
I would imagine hotels and restaurants work you harder than e.g. the apres ski bars that open at 16:00.
My comment above might be misleading, I was suggesting that working for a holiday company, from what I see although I'm a bit out of date, would result in less skiing. Also in recent years, notably post brexshit, there are far fewer companies offering "staffed" holidays.
I'd be approaching bars directly, myself.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Relocated to The Piste as this isn't really about snow reports or weather 
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@under a new name Good point! I'll see how I go applying directly before I consider holiday companies.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Newy, for instance ... in Chamonix, just cos I see it every day, looking for (probs summer) staff just from walking down main street today are e.g. the Big Mountain Brewery (open a mere 17h00-23h00), Bighorn (restaurant/bar, lots of fun, do require basic French) and Bistrot des Sports (probably a bit harder work).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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As you have a French Working Holiday Visa (because these visas are available to Australians) you have no need to get involved with any UK holiday companies who would usually need go through the process of applying for a visa for their posted staff. It may complicate matters if you try to work in France for a UK company on a UK contract, when you actually already have the right to work in France for a local employer (or on a French contract) - and at French pay rates.
Hospitality staff are in short supply across Europe, particularly in seasonal resorts. The pandemic resulted in huge numbers of people leaving the industry to find other work as their usual winter>summer>winter working patterns were disrupted and they needed to find other work in order to earn a living. As others have posted, you can probably just turn up in resort and walk in to any number of bars, restaurants and hotels and find work fairly easily. Regarding accommodation - again, given the shortage of staff, employers have been forced to up their game and offer better accommodation than previously, and often include this in addition to the wage. (I'm in another country but have seen the staff accommodation here go from being a bunk bed in a grotty shared cellar room with one bathroom for 12 people, to a single-occupancy clean room with wi-fi, a bathroom and kitchen area, 3 meals a day on duty and on free days and free laundry). In the meantime, get on Duolingo and brush up your French.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Get on the Facebook groups for the main 'british' resorts, (Tignes and Val d'Isere, 3 Valleys etc). There's already some recruitment going on. There are also a few companies that help with ski season jobs (a google search will find them). Worst case, if you don't get a job in advance, just turn up at the beginning of the season at the one that sounds best to you with the means to stay for a couple of weeks and I'm sure something will turn up. In the extremely unlikely event that doesn't work, there's normally an exodus of staff after new year so some other positions might well come up then. Good luck.
PS it's not like in the US (and possibly Australia?) where you apply to the 'resort' which owns everything. In Europe it's all individual companies - either large ones like tour operators or owners of lots of venues, or small individual businesses, mostly bars and restaurants, and some ski shops.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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As said above, son worked past season for le Ski in VDI. He had such a crap time that he's resigned his job as civil engineer and is going back next yr.
The job has changed with 2 free days and better working conditions.
Even on workdays he would get 4 clear hours skiing.
Le ski sorted his work visa and were a great company to work for. His friendship group, mainly, but not exclusively coworkers, were outstanding and the experience was life changing.
He is learning french and planning on working in a Ski hire shop as part of a plan to live their permanently.
He did all this with his girlfriend who was with him. They met on holiday last yr while he was in holiday and she was working for le Ski.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Frosty the Snowman, what an amazing story! Just think, you might end up having French grandchildren! 
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@Hurtle,  it works be nice
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Hurtle, it would be nice
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Sun 14-05-23 13:32; edited 1 time in total
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@Newy,
You should be applying to TOs now. Having the right to work in France will make you more attractive to them - less hassel than organizing visas themselves. In resort jobs will be starting to appear, but most will be later in the year (May tends to be a 'downtime' month in resorts after the busyiness of the winter season).
As Frosty posts above, many people start by doing a season (or seasons) with TOs, then get resort jobs. There will be many reasons for following this route, but 2 of the main ones are that local employers like to employ those with a season under their belt - it shows you can hack doing a season (amazing how many can't), and the finding of season accommodation - much of which gates snapped up before the end of the 'current' season.
Facebook groups - two for you to join - 'Tignes Seasonnaires' and 'Tignes Seasonnaires 2023'.
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Worked a season 05/06 - changed my life/ perspective/ cleaning standards. Still friends with people I worked with, been to their weddings, visited them in Oz etc. I only had 1 day off and could ski 5/7 days even when working. Tiny bedroom with no window, bloody hard work and 100€ a week but I would do it again in a heartbeat (at that age).
Go for it.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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none of my local employers are being fussy about prior seasonal experience!
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Worked a season in 11/12 too but sorted our own accom etc. Have been living perm in Alps/Alpine lands since 2014-although not working in tourism, the pay and working hours never met my expectations doesn't time fly!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Having your visa sorted and being fluent in English puts you streets ahead of most seasonaires.
Some have the right to work, but sketchy English, others good English, but don't yet have a visa
There's plenty of hospitality jobs around Morzine for non French speakers, but get one with accommodation provided, as affordable seasonaire accommodation in Morzine is as rare as rocking horse poo-poo.
FWIW I would avoid working for a TO, just get a job on a Local contract where you'll be paid at least the legal minimum wage and you cannot be forced to work more than 35 hours per week.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Newy,
Should have asked - when are you planning to come over? Some of the resorts have summer seasons (see en.tignes.net/ouvertures-station as an example). Would give you a chance to check out those bars/restaurants that are open and/or look for accommodation. Also ask to pointed in the direction of owners of bars/restaurants that don't open in the summer.
And nightlife - don't prioritize that - they all have it.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Kenzie, hmmm, are "Mountain Trading Company" still, errr, trading? They sold La Terrasse in Chamonix pre-covid (I think, but who knows what that time period meant) but it's still on their website. Always had a feeling they were pretty moribund, the Terrasse certainly was (it's now a very, very swanky bistro).
And Mark Warner are a pale shadow of their former self, being down to one chalet hotel.
I think I'd still be going down the bar route.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @Newy, for instance ... in Chamonix, just cos I see it every day, looking for (probs summer) staff just from walking down main street today are e.g. the Big Mountain Brewery (open a mere 17h00-23h00), Bighorn (restaurant/bar, lots of fun, do require basic French) and Bistrot des Sports (probably a bit harder work). |
Oooh my OH will be hoping the spots there get filled - we're out in Chamonix for a few weeks over the period of the TdF and staying in an apt a stone's throw from the Bistrot des Sports (behind the SuperU somewhere). He's already informed me that he plans to be there most late afternoons.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| OuatteDePhoque wrote: |
FWIW I would avoid working for a TO, just get a job on a Local contract where you'll be paid at least the legal minimum wage and you cannot be forced to work more than 35 hours per week. |
TOs have to operate under French employment law now, so same rules apply to them. 35 hrs max, 2 days off per week, French minimum wage etc
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Rois1980, good location. You will want to be there early to get good seats! Also, entrecôte/frites ...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Frosty the Snowman, I know thats what they're supposed to do, but how many of the resort managers keep up to date registre de Travail, ensure all their staff have mandatory occupational health visits to the Medecin de Travail. Pay cotisations on supplied accommodation and meals? Make no deductions from the 1400 Euros per month.
My hunch is not many.
Certainly the 3 TO staff I spoke to last season were not getting 1400 net, they were working over 35 hours, they did not get overtime at 13€ per hour, did not visit the Medecin de Travail, one was looking after children but did not have a French recognised qualification, including the 120 hours mandatory training.
My experience is there is a lot of lip service being paid, but because the TO are not so flagrantly breaking the laws (Drivers without D1, under-qualified childcare staff, perks to top up wages etc...) then they are just under the radar again. Maybe it's different where you are.
I know we shouldn't believe what we read on the internet, but if you look on glass door, the state that a Ski resort rep in Morzine for Inghams gets 350 Eur per month - which is less than 1/4 of what it should be, given that they work around 40 hours per week. So even if their figure is "a bit low" it should still be nearer 1200-1400....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@OuatteDePhoque,
That resort rep getting 350 euro/month. That will be after there has been a reduction for accommodation, food, ski pass, ski insurance, travel from UK to Morzine & back, and possibly ski/snowboard & boots hire for the season.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| OuatteDePhoque wrote: |
FWIW I would avoid working for a TO, just get a job on a Local contract where you'll be paid at least the legal minimum wage and you cannot be forced to work more than 35 hours per week. |
TOs have to operate under French employment law now, so same rules apply to them. 35 hrs max, 2 days off per week, French minimum wage etc |
what makes you think people work 35 hours per week and get 2 days off?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Not sure just how likely this is to be repeated next season but a restaurant I know well was offering dishwashers €1,600 net plus accommodation and 3 solid meals a day. Slightly long and anti-social hours it must be said, but that's quite the package, for washing dishes ...
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It certainly is. In a properly equipped commercial setting washing dishes is actually an OK job - not that I've done it for a long time. You get into a rhythm, it's quite satisfying becoming more efficient and you don't have to be nice to the silly bloody customers. I have a nephew who wants to work next season who'd be VERY happy with that package.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I've seen a job advert for last season for a pot wash in a restaurant on the mountain in Mayrhofen that's paying €3059 a month before tax. Not a bad gig.
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| Kenzie wrote: |
@OuatteDePhoque,
That resort rep getting 350 euro/month. That will be after there has been a reduction for accommodation, food, ski pass, ski insurance, travel from UK to Morzine & back, and possibly ski/snowboard & boots hire for the season. |
All of which is 100% ILLEGAL. Confirming my original point.
The minimum wage is the LEGAL MINIMUM you can be paid.
If other perks are provided on top of this, then these are ON TOP, not deducted from the minimum wage.
Furthermore the employer must pay cotisations on these perks too, so if you get accommodation provided, then that is considered a benefit in kind and the employer should 67% of the value of this which when we paid it was based on a notional value of 500 EUR pcm. Likewise meals are valued @ 10.40 euros a day.
These is covered here:
https://boss.gouv.fr/portail/accueil/avantages-en-nature-et-frais-pro/avantages-en-nature.html#:~:text=Section%201%20%2D%20D%C3%A9finition%20et%20modalit%C3%A9s%20d'%C3%A9valuation,-100&text=En%20application%20de%20l'article,10%2C40%20euros%20par%20journ%C3%A9e.
Lets pretend for a moment that the TO is actually paying 1400 and the employee is getting meals and accommodation, then the monthly cotisation should be around 67% of 2200 Euros, so thats about 1474 in cosisation on top of the 1400. So just shy of 3k per month before you look at lift pass, insurance, equipment and travel perks.
I'm not saying that some TO don't do this, but the employees I spoke to the season just passed, definitely did not get any where near 1400 pm.
It isn't even about the money, as it's an awesome way to spend a / several season(s), any most people are super happy with the package, but it is about respecting the laws of the country in which you are operating.
Once you start normalising the breaking of employment law and not respecting the minimum wage, to use skiing parlance - it's a very slippery slope. Especially as the people who suffer are generally those at the bottom end of the pay structures.
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FAQ
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40 hours per week
