On piste safety

A snowHead

Not sure this has been posted yet. Interesting read raising some interesting points, some from our very own Steve Angus (unless there are two)

https://planetski.eu/2023/03/07/public-demand-grows-for-people-who-ski-out-of-control-to-be-held-accountable/

A snowHead

Do the stats back all this up? It's not that I am a bit sceptical of anecdotal evidence although if people like Mr Angus so it's so I'm more inclined to agree.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Some of those comments, jeez.

It's helmets I tell ya, ban 'em.

And fat skis

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Have to laugh in recognition at the shoulder heaver description.

There is of course a partial solution to the lift pass confiscation problem. Simply help a miscreant out with their gear and give them the gift of personal reflection by carryiing their lost skis etc to the base of the mountain.

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I think the comments on fat skis are appropriate to some degree.

I have seen more than a few folks of intermediate ability skiing on piste in fat skis with rocker. They probably look the part on their Black Crows but would be much happier on a flexible carving ski that will be much more forgiving to their ability.

I would also ban any sort of speed measurement from ski tracking aaps. My biggest pet hate along with an infatuation of getting down runs of a particular colour instead of skiing in control and with good technique.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

@NoMapNoCompass, sorry, I don’t believe that someone who skis like a d1ckhead on fat skis would suddenly become an angel on a pair of piste skis

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Weird, I was expecting that to be automodded to something like ‘gentleman’s front bottom forehead’.

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@jmr59, I don’t really buy the idea that they can’t control them - they just don’t want to ski in a controlled manner

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In France in the last 7 years or so we have definitely noticed an increase of bombers with cameras passing unnecessarily closely at speed on quiet or empty pistes. We assume it's to make their videos more "exciting".

From the article a lot of unlucky people and almost no one recognising the doctrine of Protect Yo'self. This involves recognising that there are an almost infinite number of douches in any resort and taking proactive measures to ensure you're not the one that they hit from shoulder checks to ALWAYS stopping looking uphill to getting through pinch points fast.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

High fast upload lifts only contribute to overcrowded pistes.

I prefer to ski reds and blacks because there are usually less speedy people on them, especially after lunch.

There were definitely a lot more people skiing beyond the limit of their control a couple of weeks ago in the 3Vs.

A snowHead

@Steve Angus, I was sure it must be.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Last week was the first time I have skied for four years. I was at Les Deux Alpes where I have seen many times before. There were reckless skiers on the slopes. Subjectively I would say that they were no greater in percentage terms than in the past. I did not ski blacks. Many were shut - and in any case, some of the worst skiing I have seen at LDA has been on greens. Of course Charlotte Swift has vastly more experience than I on which to make a judgement. Clearly if the reckless could be caused to reform, that would be good.

A side comment: I thought that the standard of boarding had improved a lot. All seem to get on and off the lift without causing me concern if they were next to me, and with two exceptions (a father and son, I think) all I saw were boarding in a flowing manner, rather than bulldozing their way down.

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I have to say I agree with @Dave of the Marmottes, about protecting yourself. I am always looking around myself trying to be as aware as possible of who is around and above me. I always give learner groups lots of space and respect too. We were all there once. Skiing or boarding with headphones in isn't sensible I think, and skiing drunk is moronic.
As for learning the rules, it is depressing to see large learner groups, especially in France (ESF in particular) parked for "instruction" across narrow parts of pistes, pinch points, etc. If the instructors aren't passing on information as basic as only stopping in the sides, what chance they are teaching any rules at all. I would start any campaigns with them, but obviously not solely, it'll take too long to filter in.

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I don't really find the vox pop anecdotes very helpful. A campaign to limit on-snow alcohol sales seems like a good idea to me. Not as much fun as banning rap music, but likely more effective.

The US statistics are particularly easy to access: https://www.nsaa.org/NSAA/Media/Industry_Stats.aspx
The biggest killer at US resorts is probably not what most would guess.

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@phil_w, ah, trees!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

In Canada some places have slow skiing areas that are either designed for beginners or places that tend to be crowded (i.e. multiple runs merging close to the bottom of a lift). Of course you have to actually police them somewhat for them to be at all effective, but it does seem to help.

I'd also put in a "race" area/piste. Even put a timer there and some gates, and let people that want to ski fast go there and do it safely away from others.

I'm not against taking lift passes off people but I think it's quite a grey area how you judge someone being reckless. Sure its easy to spot the complete idiot going way too fast on a crowded slope. Good skier, potentially skiing just as fast but completely in control on an empty piste with great visibility, and it's probably fine. I'm sure many intermediates end up out of control at some point due to lack of skill or misreading conditions/terrain and I'm not sure that would deserve the same punishment.

Even when people post videos of ski crashes there's often a lot of disagreement over who was at fault.

Banning alcohol and less grooming would probably help, but I expect be incredibly unpopular.

After all it is free

But you can't get hit from behind by a d1ckhead on fat skis if you're skiing faster them them wink

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without being rude about anyone ... since the crise chums in town have reported rather high numbers of people who have literally never skied before.

Now, while it's lovely to encourage new friends, it's quite clear that there is a general lack of education about how to go about it and how to do so safely ...

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

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I think part of the problem is that modern skis make it easier to ski badly and fool oneself into thinking they're good enough. So nobody takes lessons anymore and as pointed out above, a big part of the first lessons is about etiquette.
Interestingly enough, people who never take lessons also lack basic essential skills like conversion, side-step or even sliding down terrain too steep for their ability.

The other thing is that in the last couple of decades most big resorts have invested massively in converting their pistes to big "boulevard" that are groomed daily making it easier for incompetent skiers to go fast.
Ungroomed pistes are usually much safer because they are less crowded and incompetent skiers tend to avoid them or have to slow down because they have no idea how to go down. Also, whenever there's a fresh dump the average speed tend to decrease because again most people don't actually know how to ski.

So maybe the solution is to stop grooming pistes all the time.

You know it makes sense.

@GrosPierre, +1.
Resorts could easily have 2 or 3 groomed pistes for idiots, and leave the rest au-naturel for everyone else to enjoy.
The groomed pistes would be so full of mardy French instructors that it would suck the joy out of the tune-it and hoon-it brigade.
I go out a lot with many different people through the season of different ages and abilities, all of whom are very capable of zooming down well prepared slopes, but struggle on unprepared, choppy and uneven stuff, which is why some of them jack it it after lunch citing the old "The snow is rubbish" line.

Another easy win is to encourage people when they stop by the side of the piste, to do so looking uphill not downhill - it's really simple, and you're much less likely to ski off into the path of somebody already in motion as you will see them coming. This gets around the seemingly unteachable skill of looking uphill before setting off.

There seems to be an notion that if you want to be a better skier and have 400 quid, then spend it on new kit rather than lessons. You'll still be a bad skier - just with new boots / skis.
One interesting thing could be to take a leaf out of the music industry.
Over the last few years I have bought Guitars Fender & Yamaha, both through resellers, and each time you buy a new one, there is a voucher for a free online lesson. It's not just beginner level, they pitch the lesson at your level.
A model which could work is that manufacturers jack up the hardware price by 90-100 Euros, but you get a voucher for a 1 hour private lesson delivered by a partner ski school in resort.
Even though it's not enforceable, if I knew I had paid 90 Euros for a lesson, then I'm damn sure I'm going to have it.

Also pass confiscation :: fine as long as you have demarkation between Judge, Judy and Executioner, which doesn't seem to be how people think it should happen.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

Not really noticed a problem, or things getting worse but I can appreciate that ski instructors in charge of a line out of a dozen kids must find it very stressful day in, day out.

A snowHead

@Orange200 wrote

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

In Austria I found that groups under instruction were a huge hazard.
10 adults lined up in the middle of quite a narrow steep slushy and busy section, before setting off on a follow me, learn to ski this horrid terrain session... (This appeared to be a private group session, not local ski school.)

The worst, though, was several instructors from the local school lining their beginner clients up just after the release point / top of a drag lift - and I mean literally just after - to have a chat. Another narrow area, though a bit further on was a wide open green slope. No way at all that anyone but an advanced skier or boarder could thread their way through the various groups, adults & children; even then, often the only advanced technique was an abrupt halt and a few very choice words.
The less advanced technique, for all other novice and intermediates, was to bail onto back bottom or hit someone.
Instructors clearly didn't give a fig.
And we wonder why the instructees never realised that this just might be an issue when they're on their own...

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Back to the original post link.

It's pointless asking people if they feel skiing is more dangerous now than in their youth. The question tells us a lot about aging, nothing at all about slope safety.
Which is why the NSAA data exist and are tracked over time.
I'm sure European resorts will have the same data, and any article on slope safety ought to be based in data...
but in Europe I think you have to pay for that, where as a vox pop costs nothing.

How about an article covering a slope redesign done for safety reasons?
You could look at the collision rate on that slope before and after the redesign, and show that better design delivers significantly improved safety.
That would be journalism, and could be part of a campaign for better safety through better piste design.

I guess we'd need to pay for that with more than a quick click.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

Nothing like an ungroomed mountain with natural moguls to sort out the dumb f***ery.

Ban the Basher !

(Yes we know the benefits of preservation to snow pack the basher gives )

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It's daft to say it but it is of course grooming that causes the dangerous idiots to be empowered. Unfortunately its also the whole basis of the industry for leisure skiers as well so no resorts have an interest in limiting it (besides being necessary in times of poor natural snowfall). When I was skiing recently after a heavy snowfall it was notable how few skiers on the ungroomed " piste" could actually cope and they certainly weren't getting up to dangerous speeds. Still was danger from over exhuberant groups flying through the trees of course.

Help!!

On piste safety

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