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Rental skis - lost front binding

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Interesting experience today - I somehow lost the front binding on one of my rental skis.

Sometime between unclipping at the bottom gondola station and trying to (unsuccessfully) clip in at the top gondola station.

The rental shop has given me a new set of skis.

But they are suggesting that I will be charged for damage. Their version of events is that I must have inadvertently undone the latch on the front binding, and then inadvertently pulled the front binding out when loading/unloading, or it's slipped off on the gondola.

Very surprised by the attitude. As demonstrated to me, it requires a lot of force to pull a working front binding clean off. I'm inclined to think I was provided with a faulty set of skis.

Anyone heard of this happening before? Do I have a case to argue with the rental shop?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@azza2110, forcing a binding off would be next to impossible. Sliding one off having unlatched it might be trivially easy.

Inadvertently unlatching one during no matter what operation should be very unlikely.

I’d be countering “damage” with “lawsuit for rental of dangerous equipment”.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Oddly enough, this happened to my husband last week - it came clean off when he unclipped at a lift, luckily he noticed and put it back on. They were the SRT12 on a pair of Stockli skis, but same system with the little front flip catch as lots of the bindings I think?

The guy in the hire shop when told said it can happen when handling the skis/carrying them as the flip catch seems to be quite sensitive.
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Rented a pair of Salomons a few years back in Courchevel Le Praz. Kept on popping out of one of the skis. Eventually had a closer look whilst having a coffee in VT. All of the screws holding the front binding were stripped! The boot was holding them in! Skied gingerly back. Different skis issued, no rental refund for a wasted day. Found out later that there was a manufacturing issue with that particular model and the screws were vulnerable to being over torqued.
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under a new name wrote:

Inadvertently unlatching one during no matter what operation should be very unlikely.

I see this nearly every week. A lady came to me just yesterday with exactly this problem and hers wasn't quite as straightforward as just lifting a lever as most rental bindings seen to be these days. I guess people approach me more as an instructor so I do see a lot more of it than most.
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Another reason for buying your own skis. (No where's the popcorn!)
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Dead easy to slide one of the new gen demo/rental bindings off while unlatched. Conceivable though unlikely that you could do it accidentally e.g. catching the latch while stuffing them in a gondy outside bin particularly if you were holding ski by the binding.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
gixxerniknik wrote:
Another reason for buying your own skis. (No where's the popcorn!)
Many rail bindings are equally as easy to move as rental bindings. I am currently testing a pair of new skis, if I don't buy them they will go into the rental fleet for the shop that supplied them.
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@Chris_n, call me a snob, but I wouldn't buy a pair of skis with rental, or rail bindings on purely for the weight penalty.
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@Chris_n, @ElzP, I am surprised!
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gixxerniknik wrote:
@Chris_n, call me a snob, but I wouldn't buy a pair of skis with rental, or rail bindings on purely for the weight penalty.


Snob! wink How do you know the mount position is the optimum for you if you haven't played around a bit with fore/aft on a demo track (which can be almost as light as a non demo base these days)?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
The more I read this the more I love my Pivots.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, I'm a holiday skier, I'm not that good, I don't think I'd notice moving the binding position about but I'm pretty sure my legs notice the weight difference when skating along the flat bits!
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
gixxerniknik wrote:
@Chris_n, call me a snob, but I wouldn't buy a pair of skis with rental, or rail bindings on purely for the weight penalty.
So you aren't going to ski on Völkl Racetiger or Atomic S/G/X 9 (things I'm most familiar with) which fall into the 'race' category of skis and are normally the manufacturers flagship models. I know they are not FIS race skis but they are the next best thing and of course they are heavy. Different horses are required for different courses, a lightweight ski is not the answer to everything. Rail systems are often used [advertising speak] to prevent the ski having a dead spot in the under boot position [/ advertising speak]
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
gixxerniknik wrote:
@Dave of the Marmottes, I'm a holiday skier, I'm not that good, I don't think I'd notice moving the binding position about but I'm pretty sure my legs notice the weight difference when skating along the flat bits!
the skis are never heavy, that's your body being on the ski that makes it heavy wink
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@gixxerniknik, If you had small feet you would notice the difference, (centre mark on some skis often puts you back from ideal ball of foot position, sometimes a long way back) I always use bindings that I can move.

My daughter has some marker squire demos and we have to tape down the adjustment levers as in soft/bumpy/powdery snow they click up sometimes and self adjust which can be a bit disconcerting!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
azza2110 - which resort are you in?
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On an EoSB was with a snowHead
who, after skiing through the park, arrived at a gondola. As he unclipped stepped out, one toe binding from his hire skis, shot across the base station. The lifty (who it nearly hit) refitted it for him.
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You can prepare for a legal argument or you could ask how much they would charge for a new part. You might be getting het up over €15.

See if they have an online review site. Not everyone likes reviews that they might be hiring out unsafe equipment.
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Thanks all for your replies.

Sounds like it is unlikely but still very plausible that I've inadvertently unlatched the binding while loading the skis into the gondola.

In that case, I might have to cop whatever they charge and just make sure I don't make the same mistake again.

I figure this is just one of many potential scenarios where, not due to personal negligence, I'd be liable for repair/replacement costs. E.g. skis stolen, or damaged in collision with an out of control skier.

@Steve Angus, I'm at Meribel Mottaret this week - the Tougnettes gondola was where it disappeared.
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If you've got decent snowsports insurance, it should cover you for damaged hire equipment. Mine (Snowcard) does, with no excess applied, as I recently discovered.
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adithorp wrote:
On an EoSB was with a snowHead
who, after skiing through the park, arrived at a gondola. As he unclipped stepped out, one toe binding from his hire skis, shot across the base station. The lifty (who it nearly hit) refitted it for him.


Sounds like a Smygus Dyngus story.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Lesson learned.
Take out the few euros insurance cover for equipment.
You could be on here moaning your rental skis got nicked & they want to charge you full retail price for new skis & bindings.
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Hmm. Though I bought them new, my skis have rental bindings. I have not had a problem, but will be giving them a good look this morning, before I put them on.
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Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
adithorp wrote:
On an EoSB was with a snowHead
who, after skiing through the park, arrived at a gondola. As he unclipped stepped out, one toe binding from his hire skis, shot across the base station. The lifty (who it nearly hit) refitted it for him.


Sounds like a Smygus Dyngus story.


Toofy Grin
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I am amazed at this looking like it's a common occurrence. Bindings are a safety device and no way should be easy to release under normal use. What make of bindings are the worst for this or is it across all makes?

@Chris_n,
I find a ski I like and put on normal bindings, if I put on rental bindings the skis would weigh more in total, where's the sense in that?

Quote:

the skis are never heavy, that's your body being on the ski that makes it heavy wink


Laughing Laughing Ok, so I know the slightly overweight lump above them is the limiting factor but losing 1kg unsprung weight is much better than 1kg sprung weight. Laughing

@Zorrac,
Quote:

small feet

Ah...not size 11s then? Honestly, I hardly need skis!
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gixxerniknik wrote:
I am amazed at this looking like it's a common occurrence. Bindings are a safety device and no way should be easy to release under normal use. What make of bindings are the worst for this or is it across all makes?

It's a thread about binding malfunctions, but I think you're getting a bit of a skewed perspective here – a huge number of skiers, including almost all on rentals, are using rail bindings, and the majority will be absolutely fine. It is useful to be able to move the binding along the rail or remove it completely, for example to lend skis to a friend, to fit new boots, or for ease of transportation. To do this normally requires a lever of some sort – a flat-head screwdriver usually – and it cannot occur while the skis are in use because your foot is over the release tab.

It happened to my partner earlier this season. He put his skis on at the top of the first run and immediately realised that one binding was too wide. He adjusted it and carried on. It probably got caught up on some other skis when in the car. These are fairly old rental bindings and the tabs may have loosened off a bit, but it hasn't happened before or since.

If you buy a ski in the flat, then you can add any binding you want, but a lot of skis, particularly piste skis, come with a rail binding attached. I wouldn't worry about this too much, if the skis are what you want at the price you want to pay. The binding are not that heavy, and piste skiing is not generally something where you benefit overly from light skis.
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I know it's going down the boarder vs skier route, but having rented boards in the past, every time I go out I always check the binding screws at the first lift. Even though binding screws have the blue locker paste to stop them coming undone, because rental shops and even board owners are frequently undoing the screws to make adjustments, then they can work loose pretty easily. SO habitually I check the bindings at the first lift - where there are normally screwdrivers / torque tools.
I don't ski that many days per season now, but when I do, I am still in the habit of checking the bindings while I'm at the bottom before committing to going up the hill. In the case of the OP it seemed it happened mid-ski, but checking them early doors may have foreshadowed what was to follow.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Hi @Scarlet, I was a bit concerned with @Chris_n's,
Quote:

I see this nearly every week.

That's what got me thinking just how widespread is this? Probably you are right though, a skewed perspective, but still slightly alarmed.
I've bought 2nd hand skis, ex-rental skis and brand new bare skis too so have experience with rail/rental bindings as well as the normal unadjustable type.
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@gixxerniknik, I think the clue is in the title... "Rental skis..." wink

As for it being a common occurance, I've seen thousands of people unclipping skis but only ever seen one binding come off.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Owning both flat fix and rental bindings, I'm aware of how they work.

For the OP and without being there or them having the missing piece to judge if there's anything faulty, then I'd be trying to talk the shop into an honourable "no score draw" on this one.

Can they prove adequately that the binding was fully set to work in normal use, ensuring your safety ? The onus is on them to provide kit that reasonably fulfilled the contract of rental. They are the experts in providing this equipment, they should realistically be questioning themselves as to how it should become so insecure that it's fallen off in normal use. It is primarily their problem, unless the ski has been changed after their setup and boot check.

If you have not intentionally changed their setup or directly abused them (not used within original recreational ski intent) I don't really see how they can fairly claim against you.
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azza2110 wrote:


@Steve Angus, I'm at Meribel Mottaret this week - the Tougnettes gondola was where it disappeared.


.... I was just going to say if it was in Val d then let me know and I could accompany you to the rental shop if you wanted to argue your case as I dont really think it should be happening stuff like this.
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@azza2110, which shop?
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gixxerniknik wrote:
@Chris_n,
I find a ski I like and put on normal bindings, if I put on rental bindings the skis would weigh more in total, where's the sense in that?

All of the skis I mentioned earlier come with rail bindings systems as part of the package. You would have no warranty without the correct binding installed. As far as the I see this nearly every week comment goes I'm not seeing bindings falling apart every week but I do see inadvertent adjustments mainly when putting the skis into the gondola door or first thing in the morning when skis have been carried from accommodation or lockers.
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@Chris_n, Ah, thanks for the clarification. I feel a bit happier now!
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@ecureuil, it was Ski Republic at Le Hameau.

They did not charge for damage in the end. The reason given was that they managed to convince their workshop to give them a spare part for free.

I had a play with the bindings on my replacement skis yesterday. I didn't realise the latch is spring loaded, making it even harder to inadvertently adjust or remove.

Perhaps I lifted the latch accidentally, some snow wedged the latch open, and then the binding slipped off on the gondola? Anyway, will be paying more attention next time!
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Good result @azza2110, I feel if the involved parties can end up being in possession of an honourable way to exit the situation, then it can all be allowed to flow smoothly into the past Very Happy

It must be one of the hazards in hire fleet of anything really, coping with something that can (apparently) be so easily shifted unseen should drive product development if they then buy newer equipment, ie too many losses should drive decision making on their buyers list to hopefully equip with more secure/ robust products.
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