 Poster: A snowHead
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yesterday I was with my son in Frankfurt airport, we have snowboards, in the beginning they trie to charge me for extra payment cause of the snowboards, after half en hour that I show the the rules of Lufthansa in their internet site they let me to take the boards with out extra payment and then start the real problem. We have two avalanche rescue backpack, one is ABS and one is ortovox, they told me that is impossible to take the cartridge because is not written the net weight of the gas on the cartridge, I try to show the the IATA rules but nothing not help, after I passed the security that again send me to send the avalanche rescue backpack, in the excess baggage because the internal rules of Lufthansa not allowed to take the avalanche rescue backpacks as carry on baggage. I’m using a avalanche rescue backpack for a seven years already and is the first time I have so much problem, is the first time that I’m not allowed to take the cartridges.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I saw the rules in the internet site, but they show me more rules, and there written in no more than 50 gr gas insides the cartridge and because I can’t prove that is not less than 50 gr (even the cartridge is empty!!) they can’t let me to take the cartridges
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Just the other week someone was claiming in another thread that there are no problems with compressed gas cylinder avalanche rucksacks. If you don't want hassles when flying then electric is clearly still the way to go.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| jabuzzard wrote: |
| .........If you don't want hassles when flying then electric is clearly still the way to go. |
But not battery. Supercapacitor is the way to go ie Scott E1/E2 etc
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| jabuzzard wrote: |
| .........If you don't want hassles when flying then electric is clearly still the way to go. |
But not battery. Supercapacitor is the way to go ie Scott E1/E2 etc |
Yeah, yeah don't rub it in. Dam things didn't exist when I got mine 
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What does it show on the cartridge? With say gas, volume, and pressure it should be possible to calculate the weight. (But whether check-in staff would believe the calculation is another matter  )
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I felt the staff of Lufthansa and especially the manager, she was enjoy to be tyranny, I show here the internet site of ABS but she refused to give a look and just refused to let me to take the cartridge, it seems she enjoyed here power
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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When I had mine, I never tried to take the canister or airbag as hand luggage, and I’m not surprised they wouldn’t let you take it in the cabin. I wouldn’t expect to get a gas canister past security either, as they have no idea what is in it, or what you might do with it. It doesn’t matter what’s written on it, you could fill it up with anything.
Having said that, there are always power hungry jobs worths, or alternatively the “I can’t be bothered to check, therefore I refuse it". I once sent an empty ABS canister for refill, from Cambridge to Brighton, and it didn’t arrive. When I chased it up, it was in Ireland as it was apparently "dangerous goods, so couldn’t be sent in the post". The irony of the fact that they had flown it Ireland seemed to have escaped them. Luckily I got it back in a box plastered with dangerous goods stickers, despite the fact it was a dangerous as an empty thermos flask.
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| jabuzzard wrote: |
| Just the other week someone was claiming in another thread that there are no problems with compressed gas cylinder avalanche rucksacks. If you don't want hassles when flying then electric is clearly still the way to go. |
I have never had a single issue travelling with BA with my Mammut gas system, either taking the bag (with the canister in checked in luggage) as my carry on, or more latterly checking the whole lot in.
There is a whole sub section in the BA site regarding what lithium powered products can be carried on board and I’m not sure as it is as clear cut as “clearly still the way to go”.
Supercapicitor systems are not mentioned directly. Not sure if this is a good thing or a bad thing, or whether it will be updated.
From BA regarding gas powered rescue packs…
Avalanche rescue backpacks
British Airways give automatic ‘operator approval’ for each passenger to carry one avalanche rescue pack containing cartridges of compressed gas* (IATA Division 2.2 non-flammable, non-toxic gas) subject to the following conditions;
You can only take one rescue pack per person containing cartridges which must remain in the device.
Spare cartridges are NOT permitted.
The airbags within the rescue pack must be fitted with pressure relief valves.
The device may be equipped with pyrotechnic trigger mechanism containing no more than 200mg net explosive of per IATA Division 1.4S (no significant hazard).
You must pack it in a way that ensures it cannot be accidentally activated.
This item should travel in your checked baggage as some airports do not allow them in the cabin.
For your convenience, you must pack a copy of this page with the device to identify that you have our ‘operator approval’ to carry the rescue pack.
You do NOT need to contact the airline or inform staff at the airport that you are carrying this item.
* For battery operated avalanche rescue backpacks, please see the section for lithium batteries.
Please note: Additional restrictions apply if you're travelling to/from the US. The current FAA advice states: ‘These devices typically contain a cylinder of compressed nonflammable gas. Some models also contain a small explosive charge (squib) to release the cylinder contents. Although these are allowed in checked baggage by international (ICAO/IATA) regulations, these devices are not allowed in baggage in the U.S. unless the gas cylinder is empty and there is no explosive charge.'
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| jabuzzard wrote: |
| Just the other week someone was claiming in another thread that there are no problems with compressed gas cylinder avalanche rucksacks. If you don't want hassles when flying then electric is clearly still the way to go. |
There is an unresolved thread in the comments from a wildsnow review of the litric where it wasn't allowed on the flight due to the lithium battery.
https://www.wildsnow.com/32521/the-ortovox-arcteryx-litric-airbag-system-a-review/
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| kitenski wrote: |
| jabuzzard wrote: |
| Just the other week someone was claiming in another thread that there are no problems with compressed gas cylinder avalanche rucksacks. If you don't want hassles when flying then electric is clearly still the way to go. |
There is an unresolved thread in the comments from a wildsnow review of the litric where it wasn't allowed on the flight due to the lithium battery.
https://www.wildsnow.com/32521/the-ortovox-arcteryx-litric-airbag-system-a-review/ |
Reading through that thread it looks like there has been a rule change in 2018 targeting smart luggage that impacts "luggage" with none removable lithium ion batteries Whether an avalanche rucksack is "luggage" is of course debatable.
I purchased my bag in 2016 for the 2016/17 season so this was a none issue at the time. If it does become a problem then I guess I will have to off load it, get a super capacitor bag instead and eat the loss. If I was buying a bag today I would only consider a super capacitor bag and from the thread It looks like litric system bags have all been recalled so you are not out of pocket. Perhaps the reissued bags will use normal AA batteries like the Scot system. Note my reading from the thread is the issue is taking it as carry on luggage. You can stuff it in the hold no questions asked which is bizarre!!!
https://www.ortovox.com/us-en/litric-recall
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@jabuzzard, I also wondered if the recall was down to the batteries as well?
Doesn't appear to be allowed in the hold either!
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Hi Jason, No it was not possible, batteries must be carrried in cabin and can’t be in checked baggage, I told to the security that it’s like a portable electronic device but they don’t accept because the battery was non-removable and the airbag system was nonr-emovable from the backpack, finally I let it in ZRH with friends
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| Looking into some of the travel issues with smart luggage bags with non removable lithium ion batteries, several airlines forbid these types of bags as carry on or checked bags since around 2017/2018 due to fire issues. But they’re allowed so long as the lithium ion battery can be easily removed. |
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You know it makes sense.
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@yariv_har, sorry to hear that. Just shows that whatever the ‘rules’, its the people on the ground who actually count…. And that will always be a risk, irrespective of who is right.
Suspect the ‘50 gramms’ part relates to ‘lifejackets’, and their small inflators. As others have said, ABS cylinders need to go in the hold / checked luggage….. but even then, some airports (Zurich) have local rules and dont permit them.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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So I have just flown from Manchester to Zurich and back with my Pieps Jetforce system and it was probably the most trouble-free trip with it I have ever had. It was not questioned at all at either airport. However, I observed that the battery pack was highlighted on the security scanner at Zurich and was given extra attention. In Zurich yesterday what was an issue was that no batteries of any description were allowed in the hold. I had to open my suitcase and remove the ordinary alkaline AA batteries from my transceiver and carry them in my hand luggage! Never had to do that in over 20 years before. My guess is that it's difficult to tell from a scan whether it's an AA cell or a Li-Ion 18650 cell, so they are just banning all batteries.
On the Pieps front, I had the realization that the battery back could in fact be made removable. It's in a zipped pouch, the only problem is that the battery pack is hardwired into the rest of the system. There are however if you cut the cable in two then there are plenty of suitably rated connector types that could be used to join the cable together. By suitable I am taking at least IP68 rated and vibration and pull apart proof. There are loads from the automotive industry, aerospace and military. That would make the battery removable and comply with the latest regulations. I am going to get in contact with Pieps to query them about the regulation change. I would be happy with a paid-for retrofit of a connector, but if Pieps is not going to do anything themselves then I am more than happy and more than competent to go DIY.
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