 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Old Fartbag wrote: |
| Mid4656 wrote: |
Of course there are numerous people who have never tried snowboarding and so they won't have first hand knowledge of the difficulties of the first few days... |
I have second hand experience. My Daughter's ex Boyfriend came with us one year and wanted to learn Snowboarding. As he was a half decent Skateboarder, he thought it would be "Wee Buns", as they say in my part of the world.
Both myself and my Daughter tried to tell him otherwise - and highly recommended getting Impact Shorts (or whatever they are called), as he would spend a lot of the week getting bruises from endless falls. He thought we were taking the pi$$ (which tbf we often did), but he bowed to the pressure and bought some when hiring his Board. Boy did he make use of them. He couldn't believe how bad he was - which was made worse by the high expectation that he would be otherwise.
He was just starting to get the hang of it, when he took a tumble and hit his head hard enough, that he didn't feel up to his lesson on the last day. He was wearing a helmet, thank goodness.
They split up, so I have no idea whether he ever went again.....but I have a feeling, not. |
Ha! Ha! Did they split up because your daughter wasn't impressed with his athletic ability?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| ed123 wrote: |
| @Mid4656, nahh- snowboarding and skiing (alpine) are both easy- try keeping it real and free the heel. |
Now you are talking! Far too difficult for me!
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| Mid4656 wrote: |
Ha! Ha! Did they split up because your daughter wasn't impressed with his athletic ability? |
I suspect that they split as he was a bit of a Muppet. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Actually I started boarding with ski boots and no helmet etc. but a friend and myself padded ourselves out with rolled up socks and a pillow in strategic places
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Just checking, this wasn't in Chamonix / Les Houches, when you got cleared off the mountain on your first day in a pisteurs stretcher when they got tired of waiting for you on the final descent (and were then joined in the stretcher by a skier who'd given up and was walking down), and you lost your passport on the drive home ? If so, I know who you are (I was aware of the pillow, but mercifully not of the rolled up socks)
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I learnt to snowboard around the same time I learnt XC skiing and I found the latter considerably more difficult. Stopping was a great challenge - but those socking great metal edges on the snowboard helped a lot.
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A lot will depend on the individual abilities & attitude. Some people will learn snowboarding quicker than skiing & vice versa.
Similarly, someone might really want to be a snowboarder & persevere despite difficulties.
Some people learn very slowly, desperately avoiding falling over & go very slowly to avoid the falls until they can make the turns, this is a good plan for snowboarding as the falls are more painful ( catch a front edge & slam your face into the ground or lose a bck edge & slam your back into the ground )
I was the opposite, get some speed, then worry about the turn, so my falls when trying to board were very painful & hence I quickly took a dislike to boarding & the look of waddling along like a crippled duck on the flats & queues where my ski poles make excellent tow bars for boarder mates.
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| Quote: |
I know who you are (I was aware of the pillow, but mercifully not of the rolled up socks)
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@viv, 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Mid4656, I snowboard / splitboard and limit the amount of time I spend in resorts on piste.
Learnt to ski first when I was 12 and learnt to snowboard at 14 or 15. Was lucky enough to be able to go to the dry ski slope for lessons with my school Friday evening for something silly like £3.80.
When / if I have more time in the mountains I’ll brush back up on skiing but I’d probably need a full season to get as competent in the back country on skis as I am on my splitboard given how long it’s been since I did any real skiing.
Obviously we have very different experiences of skiing vs snowboarding with our groups of friends and who finds what easier 
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| Mid4656 wrote: |
| Sfellows wrote: |
The old adage:
Skiing is easy to learn and difficult to master.
Snowboarding is difficult to learn and easy to master. |
Wow, that is interesting. I have never heard that "old adage", I need to get out more! Thank you for posting. |
That’s probably because you’ve never ski/board in North America?
Here on the left side of the pond, it’s a “common knowledge” that boarding is easier to learn and harder to master. (Perhaps Sfellows is from North America?)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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This does make me laugh... As a snowboarder that has never ski'd (and never wanted to) I think you maybe have underestimated the sheer number of people that don't have any interest in skiing because of:
1. The image issue (middle/upper class proliferation)
2. The fact that its just so mainstream
3. Any skateboarder/surfer would never consider standing parallel
4. The fact skiing just looks so '$hit', aesthetically speaking
flame suit on
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 8-02-23 12:02; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Pasigal wrote: |
I never really switched to boarding for a couple of reasons: The need to unbuckle EVERY time for a chairlift, and the inability to navigate the flats or cat track runs. And tbh, from my limited experience, it's much more fun to board in powder/fresh snow rather than on hardpack groomed pistes. which make up about 90% of European ski days. And let's not even talk about moguls...I find skis to be much more versatile, although I loved the comfort and walkability of snowboard boots and the lack of poles... |
These are exactly the reasons I switched away from boarding to skiing. Too many tedious tasks nibbling away at the enjoyment. However, I'd definitely get my board out for a powder day. There's no feeling like it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Been skiing since '86, boarding since '99.
First Full (100 day+ season) in 1988.
Lived in the Alps for 20 years, and have somewhere near 700 days skiing and 900 days boarding, so below 10000 hours on both, and so not an expert at either.
It may just be a heuristic, but from what I see the standard of boarding has gone up with the number of boarders going down, and the standard of skiing going down ( going 90kmh down blue runs doesn't make you good btw - it makes you a d1ck ) while the % of skiers has gone up.
My good lady worked for ESF for a few years, and retention is there big challenge, in as much as of the 100 people who learn to ski one week as beginners, only 10 will go for a second week the next year, and only one of those the following year. So 90% of the people who take lessons for one week do not take more, or just take the occasional one.
After the 3 day hump, boarders can access more of the mountain safely than 3 day skiers, so after one week they do red runs while skiers are just onto blues.
This gives the impression that it's easier as boarders seem more advanced more quickly.
I would say that its actually harder, just way more intense, hence the faster progression.
It's accepted wisdom that the way to get better at something is to fail, and learn from your mistakes ( if you can ).
In the first week boarding I would guess you fall over 40-50 times, whereas I probably haven't fallen that many times in all the skiing I've done.
So learning to be proficient is physically much harder on a board (based on the number of times you fall over and have to pick yourself up again), but quicker, whereas skiing requires more technique ( and less balance ).
The key difference being that even with poor technique on skis you can get away with stuff while you learn (sitting back to much, upper body movement, lack of flexion etc...) and you'll still probably get down ok, but get it wrong on your board and its face-plant / skull crack central
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Poster: A snowHead
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I reckon I fell over 50 times on my first day skiing, 15-20 second day, 5-10 third day and 3-5 for a while after. I absolutely loved learning to ski, falling over never bothered me.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| OuatteDePhoque wrote: |
In the first week boarding I would guess you fall over 40-50 times, whereas I probably haven't fallen that many times in all the skiing I've done. |
Absolutely this. Without knee pads, back bottom pad, wristguards and a helmet, learning to snowboard would be a relentlessly painful experience.
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My husband watched me from a chairlift once and said I fell over 12 times. Fortunately he noticed that it was always on same turn (left, which for me was frontside to backside), which helped me identify the problem!
My proudest moment was getting on a draglift, on an easy green run I'd been lapping. A small French girl was struggling with the lift and I heard her mum (not on a board, and not much able to help) tell her to "watch how that lady does it". 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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snowboarding is easy if you aim to go down a hill/slope.
But going down means not that you are snowboarding.
I think that both are difficult. Skiing could be painfull a couple of times but really painfull (e.g. ACL rapture etc)
Snowboarding is also painfull but in other way...
I still remember the first years (i think Oktober 2008) in Stubai. My but was so bruised that i couldnt get in my jeans. Back home i went to the Hospital and the doc thought someone beat me up...or that i had a motor accident. poooo
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@OuatteDePhoque, I did clip my back foot in on the way up when I could (Flow bindings).
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@OuatteDePhoque, I did clip my back foot in on the way up when I could (Flow bindings).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If you have proper old school skiing style then you will find snowboarding is naturally very easy. After all, it is just sideways Mono-Boarding and that really is a very legs close together version of old style skiing. 
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eh  It's nothing like monoboarding, surely?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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One board, two edges, 2 feet glued to it, snow, sliding etc. Seems pretty similar to me - but then maybe that is just my weird sense of humour shining through !
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| greengriff wrote: |
| OuatteDePhoque wrote: |
In the first week boarding I would guess you fall over 40-50 times, whereas I probably haven't fallen that many times in all the skiing I've done. |
Absolutely this. Without knee pads, back bottom pad, wristguards and a helmet, learning to snowboard would be a relentlessly painful experience. |
That was how I learned (proud emoji)
Do I get a medal?
Or just early onset arthritis?
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| OuatteDePhoque wrote: |
It may just be a heuristic, but from what I see the standard of boarding has gone up with the number of boarders going down, and the standard of skiing going down ( going 90kmh down blue runs doesn't make you good btw - it makes you a d1ck ) while the % of skiers has gone up.
My good lady worked for ESF for a few years, and retention is there big challenge, in as much as of the 100 people who learn to ski one week as beginners, only 10 will go for a second week the next year, and only one of those the following year. So 90% of the people who take lessons for one week do not take more, or just take the occasional one.
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This is something I have also noticed over quite a while. I've been skiing long enough to remember the start of Snowboarding. Back then, I dreaded hearing the scraping noise behind me, as it was often a precursor to be taken out. I have witnessed whole lines of people on drag lifts being taken out (back when drag lifts were much more common).
That was back then. Over the last (good) while, I have noticed that (imv) the average Snowboarder was generally more competent than the average skier.....which is likely due to exactly the reason mentioned by your "Good Lady" and the fact that changes in ski design has given skiers a false confidence (and has them skiing Off Piste long before they have proper respect for the mountains).
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You know it makes sense.
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Splitboarding is the worst of both worlds but also the most fun 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Orange200 wrote: |
That was how I learned (proud emoji)
Do I get a medal?
Or just early onset arthritis? |
No medal, but you do get a certificate from the School of Increasingly Large Knocks.
Not sure about physically harder, but Snowboarding does demand a commitment that skiing perhaps doesn't as much, which in turn comes with a physical penalty if you dont. Yes, the slams can hurt, but even more mundane trips to the floor will gradually take their toll as you expend your energy. The learners mean-time-between-falls is much smaller.
The understanding thing - its the one that always amuses me a bit when skiers complain that we are always sitting down, just on or over a lip... Out of sight - fair enough, but you try standing there waiting, balanced on one edge and see how easy it is sunshine.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
greengriff wrote:
OuatteDePhoque wrote:
In the first week boarding I would guess you fall over 40-50 times, whereas I probably haven't fallen that many times in all the skiing I've done.
Absolutely this. Without knee pads, back bottom pad, wristguards and a helmet, learning to snowboard would be a relentlessly painful experience.
That was how I learned (proud emoji)
Do I get a medal?
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I learnt like this AND on a dendex dry ski slope! Triple medal for me Jeans and a hoody were all the protection I had.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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ditto, and we didnt have lessons, just a determination to get to the bottom
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You really are old school
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Mid4656 wrote: |
| boarder2020 wrote: |
First few days on a board are pretty miserable. I can imagine many skiers have tried it for a day, suffered, and came to the conclusion it's harder to learn.
Once you get past that first threshold it's generally a quicker trajectory to reach a decent level than on skis.
I wouldn't say it's easier to master snowboarding or skiing. Reaching that level is extremely difficult for both sports. |
As for mastering either, it is of course difficult to define "master", but my opinion is that the "quicker trajectory" you describe for boarding, continues. Thanks for your thoughts, do you still do both? |
I've never skied, unless you count trying to survive the tiniest little downward slope while skinning up on a splitboard.
It doesn't make sense the trajectory continues. If that was the case all the snowboarders you see would be Freeride world tour standard. What we do see (like pretty much everything else is) is a normal distribution curve - most people somewhere in the middle, a few rising to the top. I would hypothesise getting into the top x% of skiers or snowboarders is equally hard.
I don't see any other way to directly compare the two, as they really are different sports just happening to take place on the same environment. Watch the freeride world tour and you will clearly see a huge gulf in the kind of lines and tricks the skiers and snowboarders do. (If I wanted to argue for the sake of it I'd say the skiers are doing much more difficult runs, so the advantages of two feet working independently and an extra two edges makes it easier than snowboarding  )
You might as well argue if tennis or badminton is harder, or if running a "good" 5km or marathon is harder. They are just different things.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I would also add that snowboarding has had a massive positive impact on skiing, with nothing I can think of coming back the other way
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Against how the OP has described it, this is presupposition, isn't it ? really ?
Using "most and seemingly and think" to then position it as a question that somehow "needs" an answer is just there to sit back and watch the argument, isn't it ?
Nothing wrong with friendly debate, but no right or wrong conclusion.
And serves no purpose either
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| Quote: |
but Snowboarding does demand a commitment that skiing perhaps doesn't as much
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This, or rather when learning to ski you can get away with less commitment, you just won't progress as far or as quickly as someone who fully commits. When learning to board if you don't fully commit you give up pretty quick because it hurts way more.
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I don't see any other way to directly compare the two
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There is a massive crossover between the two for me. You only have to look at how skis have evolved since snowboards have been around and thus the similarity of the shape to understand that, even if you haven't tried both.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| .....I've never skied, unless you count trying to survive the tiniest little downward slope while skinning up on a splitboard...... |
Well, I had my suspicions 
But it does somewhat beggar belief that you then feel you can comment on styles of skiing and all the nuances that entails as in the Different ski styles? Or natural variation? thread
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
| boarder2020 wrote: |
| .....I've never skied, unless you count trying to survive the tiniest little downward slope while skinning up on a splitboard...... |
Well, I had my suspicions
But it does somewhat beggar belief that you then feel you can comment on styles of skiing and all the nuances that entails as in the Different ski styles? Or natural variation? thread |
As I said in that thread I did my masters dissertation on technique analysis in sport and have worked extensively with the technology used by carv. I also have a PhD which had a large part in biomechanical modelling. I'm probably more qualified than most to talk about the general concepts (and limitations) of technique and the carv hardware.
There is a reason I don't offer specific ski technique advice!
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FAQ
