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Tour Operators

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Having not used a TO for over 20 years, I'm somewhat out of touch with who's who/good/bad/indifferent etc

Mrs B and I have decided we're going to try and have a week away late Jan - just the 2 of us. It's not cost effective for 2 of us to drive and a quick look at Crystal etc shows some good deals late Jan. Have had a peruse of Crystal, Inghams and Iglu - just wondered if there was any other recommendations to try, or indeed avoid.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Boris,
Post Covid the UK TO market has changed, so hard to make recommendations. Also staffing policy is in flux - last season TOs were reluctant to pay the costs of employing UK passports holders in the Alps, but this season appear more willing to (fingers burnt?).
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Boris, Been a while for my group to use TO as well. We've booked a week in Val Gardena using Iglu (it's a Crystal Flight from Manchester) departing 28th Jan. The booking experience was pretty easy and includes S/C accommodation, flights, transfers, ski hire and lift passes. We had to make a couple of specific calls as one of our group is travelling from Gatwick but they were able to accommodate him on the general booking.

Of course, we won't know how good the trip from a TO perspective will be yet but if the booking arrangements are anything to go by it should be fine (fingers crossed and touching wood).
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@Boris, sunweb is the only TO I have used over last few years. Been happy with them, you can book flights with them or book your owb flights or other travel arrangements. I have always gone with my own flights
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Happily used Crystal /TUI for the first post covid trip last year, and for an early jan booked for 2023. Currently, its tends to be more cost-effective than booking independently. The Silvretta ski pass seemed cheaper as well. Wondering if they are flexing the euro status and buying power of TUI.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
We had good experiences with Ski Olympic but it was aeons ago. No recent experience of TOs.
snow conditions
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Iglu are basically a broker so they are a reseller of the others. I've not used Inghams for a couple of years but i've always found them good comparatively to there largely competitors.

3 of my 5 winter trips were with Crystal last year and our Summer trip was with TUI, they all came with TO preventable problems ranging from delays without communication to canceling our trip 3 days before due to "computer glitch". I'm now of the mindset that whilst it can cost slightly more, i'd rather have the flexibility and control DIY gives you. Since the pandemic bookings have become a lot more flexible anyway.
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Boris wrote:
Having not used a TO for over 20 years, I'm somewhat out of touch with who's who/good/bad/indifferent etc

Mrs B and I have decided we're going to try and have a week away late Jan - just the 2 of us. It's not cost effective for 2 of us to drive and a quick look at Crystal etc shows some good deals late Jan. Have had a peruse of Crystal, Inghams and Iglu - just wondered if there was any other recommendations to try, or indeed avoid.


would you consider DIY option?
If you can fly to Innsbruck or Salzburg, transfers are cheap via public transport (lots of resorts have good rail links & final leg by bus) & within 2hr transfers. Sunweb for accommodation & lift pass deal.
This option usually works out cheaper than a TO for me whenever I look.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Used Inghams more often than not
Not had any real gripes with them and using them again this winter.
Have looked at DIY and not been able to better the prices.
This may be because we travel from Scotland and avoid high season
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Haven’t used a ski TO since 1993…
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Boris, It also depends on where you want to go. there are some TO's who specialise in specific resorts or areas and they can be quite good - e.g. YSE in Val d'Isere
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Crystal made a total foul up of a family trip to Cervinia last year. With two weeks to go our final amendment was to send us to a totally different resort! I took a full refund which at least they did promptly, and spent an entire day booking hotel, flights, transfers for the 6 of us. This was the first time with a tour company anywhere in 20 years. Never again.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I too have not used a tour operator since 2002, when I went with Neilson to Val d'Isere. It was a good experience, just that I have only done DIY since.

This thread may be of interest, I have not looked anymore as of the two big tour operators TCG has gone, and TUI has put some assets on its balance sheet (cruise ships).

https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=77382

The negative equity and intangible assets still concern me.

https://uk.advfn.com/p.php?pid=financials&symbol=L%5ETUI

As for private small non listed tour operators, well the risks are clear to see with coronovirus and the sharp fall of pre booking which limits the capital for the tour operator business model.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Boris, if you’re looking for a hotel or s/c package, Inghams are a good shout and it’s pretty easily bookable via the website. Crystal website always more problematic IME. If you’d be happy with a room in a shared chalet, Le Ski are excellent; VIP Chalets now don’t include flights IIRC, but do offer shared transfers at set times (transfers can be very expensive, if organising for yourselves and just two people).
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Thanks for the info all

Certainly happy with diy option and May look at what’s available that way as well

Not really bothered where we go, we’re even toying with leaving it to week before and see what’s good and where snow is
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I’ve used crystal several times and (touches any close wooden object desperately), they’ve been great each time. Going again in February so fingers crossed. I don’t have the time or energy to DIY although I do tend to for summer holidays weirdly. Only reason I use crystal is their website actually gives you a price - Iglu seem to base it on 4 people at the browsing stage.
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The cost of my Crystal Holiday (Tignes) from when I booked it, has increased by €381 per person.....and if my timing had been a little better, I'd have got "Buy one Lift Pass, get one free" adding to the saving......though at that time, Crystal was selling the Lift Pass at €334, which is a €44 saving from where it subsequently went.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Crystal Ireland have said that using code BLKFRI100 will get €100 off per booking.....but offer ends tonight.

I would expect Crystal UK to have similar.
ski holidays
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Been away on 3 ski trips with Neilsons (and 2 beach holidays).

Never had an issue. Always been good.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
We used crystal last year and it was certainly different to pre-covid (or more specifically Brexit). The number of staff is much more limited now but as a result they have improved other areas i.e. as soon as I landed I was getting txts with updates around coach numbers and making sure sure I knew they were still waiting given the delays with passport control/baggage (there were also staff in the halls but this was a good improvement to before). No staff on the transfer coach this time just staff in the actual resort that jumped on to make sure everyone got to the right place. In our hotel we saw the rep as often as we had before so it wasn't a problem.

We were planning to use a TO again but due to some last minute changes and having to go during half-term we are doing a self-drive so will be interesting to see how it compares
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I always go with a TO - I just find it much more convenient. I have considered DIY, but the stumbling block is usually the Airport/Resort transfer.

I do research prices though - often ski pass/ski hire can be had cheaper than from the TO
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
For a low season January trip for a couple I'd use a tour operator - but definitely last minute booking. And maybe go somewhere completely different.
latest report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
pam w wrote:
For a low season January trip for a couple I'd use a tour operator - but definitely last minute booking. And maybe go somewhere completely different.


Strangely, for the past 3 seasons I've used a tour operator to go at Half Term. They have flights from my local airports (Bristol, Exeter, Bournemouth) which are usually cheaper than the equivalent Ryanair or Easyjet and for some reason only half full at HT. The transfer to resort is their problem, rather than me hiring a car, being stuck in traffic for hours, and then paying through the nose for parking in resort.

I never book the lift pass or ski hire from the TO unless there is a 2 for one deal or similar. If they try the high pressure sales technique on the transfer bus then I tell them I've already got a season pass and skis in resort.

You just have to let the occasional (and inevitable) bouts of incompetence from the TO and their reps wash over you and not get too worked up about it. A good supply of Duty free can help. And Jaffa Cakes.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
We gave up using TOs after a couple of badly-handled incidents by Crystal, and switched to self-catering and DIY transportation. My conclusion is that the majority of the TOs are on wafer-thin margins and they're fine if it all goes according to plan, but hopeless if any degree of initiative is required or things are disrupted. Basically, you get what you pay for, which is a company that bulk buys flights, transfers and accommodation (so very cost-effective) but provides minimal training to inexperienced reps. (so not good in a crisis/disruption). And they are a business, so they are going to do what is best for their operational bottom line, even if it means cancelling or relocating your holiday. In the end, we felt that we could do better ourselves and at least if there's a problem, we can take control and will be better prepared. Don't get me wrong - we've have had some great TO-based holidays, and our Neilsens rep did a great job of helping after an accident, but two major issues with Crystal underlined that the model was overall not working for us any more.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ive used Crystal for more years then I can remember, using self catering, catered chalet and hotels, in Europe and America. Ive had groups ranging from 4 to 20+ people in all age groups and abilities. Only big problem I had was a very poor chalet maid one year and a struggle to get a refund,but i did eventually. One year the changed our departure airport. In resort they've always been contactable. Except when they all got Covid in Ischgl/Galtur and disappeared on the Monday.
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Thanks all - our family trip is always DIY. With 5 of us, all with own ski kit, it has always worked out much cheaper to drive and self-cater. Hopefully this will give us an opportunity to do something different.

We'll be taking our own stuff and happy to arrange passes etc - it's just getting us there and making sure we have a bed!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Boris, the sunweb operator I pointed you at, all prices include lift passes
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
twoodwar wrote:
Crystal made a total foul up of a family trip to Cervinia last year. With two weeks to go our final amendment was to send us to a totally different resort! I took a full refund which at least they did promptly, and spent an entire day booking hotel, flights, transfers for the 6 of us. This was the first time with a tour company anywhere in 20 years. Never again.


Thats what happened to me and my friend last session, only 3 days out and we'd booked a year ahead because we needed two single occupancy rooms. You can't book that either via another TO or DIY 3 days before they well and truly screwed us. Out of sheer luck they rang me back to say the double booking had cancelled and that they could reinstate our original plan. Not the greatest buildup to a ski week, 10+ hours on the phone mostly on hold that lot cost me.


never again.....
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Went to Saalbach with Crystal this year and they were fine.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
LaForet wrote:
We gave up using TOs after a couple of badly-handled incidents by Crystal, and switched to self-catering and DIY transportation. My conclusion is that the majority of the TOs are on wafer-thin margins and they're fine if it all goes according to plan, but hopeless if any degree of initiative is required or things are disrupted.

Correct. I worked for a couple of TOs for winter seasons on a career break just over ten years ago (Crystal and Ski Beat) and from what I understood, the profit margins were very small.

LaForet wrote:
Basically, you get what you pay for, which is a company that bulk buys flights, transfers and accommodation (so very cost-effective) but provides minimal training to inexperienced reps. (so not good in a crisis/disruption).


Very correct. Training happens out in a centralised resort and there’s a huge amount to learn that is crammed into about 2-3 weeks. In my experience, it was focussed around providing a service when things go right. There was very little done for contingencies and emergencies, it was basically “the transport/management teams will make plans and then let the reps know”. On bad transportation days, particularly with Crystal who deal with a number of flights from different UK airports, it was often pretty chaotic, with reps as in the dark about things as customers.

LaForet wrote:
And they are a business, so they are going to do what is best for their operational bottom line, even if it means cancelling or relocating your holiday. In the end, we felt that we could do better ourselves and at least if there's a problem, we can take control and will be better prepared. Don't get me wrong - we've have had some great TO-based holidays, and our Neilsens rep did a great job of helping after an accident, but two major issues with Crystal underlined that the model was overall not working for us any more.


Like you I’ve used TOs plenty of times, and I would consider doing so again, but only if/when the deal was much better than DIY. TOs will do what they can to help when things go wrong, but it’s important to understand that what they can/will do as contingency measures is pretty limited.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Crystal are V expensive IMO, we used to use them all the time but last 2 years have used Heidi.com (used to be skizoom), same hotel, same flights direct comparison for 1 week - 4 people was £600 more expensive with Crystal this year
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
We used a TO for our first trips due to not knowing what/how/when we needed stuff. There are a fair few parts to a ski trip in comparison to a beach holiday for example. Now we look to DIY every time (unless we find a very good TO deal that DIY wouldn't beat for price or value).

I usually start with the accommodation. For our group trips of 8-10, that is a priority. To make sure we have enough space, somewhere comfy to relax, enough bathrooms etc. And then we work backwards from there. Flights next, then transfers/car hire. Bits like ski hire and passes we worry about literally a week or so before.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Iglu are, by and large, a travel agent that uses Iglu Ski as its trading name. Many of their customers think that they are a tour operator, so much so that when asked, by a uniformed rep (e.g. TUI/Crystal, Inghams, Ski Total), outside baggage claim "which company are you with?" they reply Iglu Ski. I often wanted to say "Sorry, but their rep isn't here yet" or "We never see their rep at the airport", but that wouldn't have been career enhancing!
If you are going to book with a travel agent, consider using a specialist such as Snowfinders in Market Harborough (rather than a factory!).
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If you want to treat yourself , top end hotels are way cheaper via TO. I have used Inghams and Crystal for the last 30 years and I have never had any problems. Neilson used only once and we had the worse holiday ever, never again. ski total were our favorite when the kids were small, i loved their chalet. The company has been bought by Inghams not sure if they still operate.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
ukoldschool wrote:
Crystal are V expensive IMO, we used to use them all the time but last 2 years have used Heidi.com (used to be skizoom), same hotel, same flights direct comparison for 1 week - 4 people was £600 more expensive with Crystal this year

Where did you go with them and how were the transfers?

Haven't seen their website. Looks half-decent, but obviously useful to have a rough idea of which airlines fly where from whatever airport(s) you favour.

I'm trying to avoid just flying from Brum to Geneva this season (even though there are loads of resorts I can get to from there with train or transfer companies I'm already familiar with) but it's the transfer aspect of flying to Austria or Italy that makes me a bit nervous as I know nothing about them and I'm a bit of a control freak!
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@Harrow lady, Ski Total are still there, but post-Brexit/post-covid it's qute a bit smaller than before (far less chalet beds than before). For France they (and Ski Esprit) have changed their flying from Sunday to Saturday and merged it with Inghams. Certainly for the Tarenatise Saturday transfers operate on busier roads than Sunday transfers.
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
jebroni3_16 wrote:

Where did you go with them and how were the transfers?

Haven't seen their website. Looks half-decent, but obviously useful to have a rough idea of which airlines fly where from whatever airport(s) you favour.

I'm trying to avoid just flying from Brum to Geneva this season (even though there are loads of resorts I can get to from there with train or transfer companies I'm already familiar with) but it's the transfer aspect of flying to Austria or Italy that makes me a bit nervous as I know nothing about them and I'm a bit of a control freak!


Hi, last year Luton/Manchester to Chamonix via Geneva, we have an unusual party where 3 fly from Luton and one flies from Manchester... they were extremely accommodating with the different flights, but all the transfer were spot on.
This year we are doing Luton/Manchester to Lesarcs via them and the saving was significant.
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Harrow lady, we once had an issue with Neilson Ski - and once with Neilson Beach which we have used more - but actually the problem both times was when they were part of the Thomas Cook group and the TC flights were a disaster. I think they have now splintered off as a separate company, but we haven't skiied with them recently.

Someone may have some more up to date experience.
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Boris, going as a couple you can be more flexible in where you want to go, and TO,s on a late deal can be good value, maybe not so much this season due to reduced availability and people getting back out after a 2-3 season missed.
I got a really good solo deal last Jan with Crystal to Sauze, Hotel Gran Baita, the snow conditions weren’t great but the hotel was really good, super helpful with good food, I’d have no issues going back with with good conditions.
I don’t expect the resort rep to do anything for me when there, I just use them as a flight, transfer and acc source.
I’ve got a deal to LaThuile in Jan with Crystal, and I’ve booked DIY to Canazei for March, DIY will be more expensive but I wanted to go back to the Dollies.
Sunweb do have good deals, but when I looked they were charging a lot for the transfer which isn’t shown in the initial pricing making no so good imv. Why not look at what they have for Italy, get a diy flight which are usually good value, and car hire often includes chains.
ski holidays
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Quote:

it's the transfer aspect of flying to Austria or Italy that makes me a bit nervous as I know nothing about them and I'm a bit of a control freak!

I don't know why a "control freak" would choose to travel with a TO. With a TO you need to just lie back and soak it up - airport delays, coach transfer from Birmingham to East Midlands because of fog, driving round the whole resort before being dropped off at the first hotel you passed. Etc. No point fretting. With a DIY trip you're in charge of how to deal with stuff. In control, in fact. wink
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