 Poster: A snowHead
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| nevis1003 wrote: |
| swskier wrote: |
@HilbertSpace, @Chaletbeauroc, two very different answers from you both 
Let me phrase it slightly different, as it might change thoughts.
I'm driving over for Christmas for a week, plus i'm then going to be spending a month in either March or April out in the alps as well, again driving the van over.
I'm thinking a straight out and out winter tyre personally. |
I only buy proper winter tyres with the proper symbol.I keep them on all year, there's an urban myth that they wear out quicker in summer, I get 20k miles from mine.
I don't understand the all season tyre for winter, your putting these tyres on so you don't get stuck... put the best on. I've not needed chains on in the last 10 seasons, I spend most of it in the Alps. Nor have the gendarmes ever asked me to put them on, but I do have a 4x4. I have been directed into lay-by's by Gendarmes in the past, after conversing with them I was not required to put the chains on with a 4x4 and winter tyres. I've yet to see a PGHM gendarme vehicle with chains on, they have good winter tyres, and they know chains break.
Similarly, driving at normal speeds you won't notice any difference in performance from winters in summer, unless you're on a German autobahn at 150mph |
The Tyre Reviews channel on you tube have recently published two separate videos rating the 10 best winter and the 10 best all-season tyres. One of the findings was that the Michelin Cross Climate 2 all-season tyre would rank in the mid-pack of the winter tyres for snow handling had they been included in tat test. I have used cross-climates for about 4 years and probably spend 4 weeks a year in Chatel with the car, when not in London, where I have driven on snow and ice up our local road, over the Pas du Morgins and snow storms over the Juras and they work fine without chains driving to the conditions. Car is an estate AWD and yet to use my expensive set of Thule chains. The tyres are also very good in London in winter where there is less tyre skip on near full-lock steering and I don't notice any difference in summer. I think they are a great option.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEvB1bmKjPWZ3V1wSdBnXPQ
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
So no, despite your experience, it is certainly not an urban myth. Oh, and also bear in mind that the minimum tread depth for winter tyres is much greater than summers, so they need to have worn down less to become useless in winter conditions.
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and winter tires have a flatter profile. I've just put the winter's on my wife's car and they feel squirrelly and noisy on the motorway. If I didn't live in the Alps and drive regularly on snow I'd have summers and fit chains as and when.... just like most people in the Alpine towns.
There are also roads around here that I avoid in winter as I can't get up them even with winter tires and would risk getting stuck.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| davidof wrote: |
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
So no, despite your experience, it is certainly not an urban myth. Oh, and also bear in mind that the minimum tread depth for winter tyres is much greater than summers, so they need to have worn down less to become useless in winter conditions.
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and winter tires have a flatter profile. I've just put the winter's on my wife's car and they feel squirrelly and noisy on the motorway. If I didn't live in the Alps and drive regularly on snow I'd have summers and fit chains as and when.... just like most people in the Alpine towns.
There are also roads around here that I avoid in winter as I can't get up them even with winter tires and would risk getting stuck. |
That's rubbish, you should be fitting winter tyres with the same profile as your summer ones. If you don't do that and fit a different profile then you will really affect your car's handling, and may invalidate your insurance.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| nevis1003 wrote: |
I only buy proper winter tyres with the proper symbol.
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All-season tyres like those mentioned also come with the winter symbol - that's the whole point, that they're certified for winter conditions and meet the French (and other nations') laws.
| nevis1003 wrote: |
I keep them on all year, there's an urban myth that they wear out quicker in summer, I get 20k miles from mine.
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Depends on the car and how you drive it. I have all-season, all-terrain on my Defender 'cos well, it's a Defender, and I suspect they'll never actually wear out. The (already obviously very) old ones from when I bought it showed no signs of wear at all through the 10000 or more km I put on them, although TBF they were also rock hard and useless in icy conditions.
OTOH when I've left the winters too long on my 300bhp VW estate and driven it enthusiastically, they start to suffer very quickly, especially on the outer edges of the tread. If I left them on through the summer, with 30c plus temperatures not unusual, and continually drove like that they'd probably get shredded within 5000km or so. My wife's Audi TT doesn't suffer quite as badly, but it's got much bigger tyres and a much smaller weight, plus she drives like a woman.
So no, despite your experience, it is certainly not an urban myth. Oh, and also bear in mind that the minimum tread depth for winter tyres is much greater than summers, so they need to have worn down less to become useless in winter conditions.
| nevis1003 wrote: |
Similarly, driving at normal speeds you won't notice any difference in performance from winters in summer, unless you're on a German autobahn at 150mph |
Have you ever driven a 'performance' car around twisty Alpine roads? I promise you that you'd feel the difference almost immediately if you were a passenger in mine on my normal 15km drive down to the valley and back  |
Whats the difference between a twisty road in the Alps and a twisty road anywhere else? It's about cornering forces on the tyre. If you drive round motorway bends 150 mph then you will also wear out tyres. If you drive like a dick anywhere you will wear them out, summer or winter. I drive normally, and my winter tyres last about 20k. If you want to change your tyres and race about, that's up to you, but I don't find it necessary.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| nevis1003 wrote: |
That's rubbish, you should be fitting winter tyres with the same profile as your summer ones. If you don't do that and fit a different profile then you will really affect your car's handling, and may invalidate your insurance. |
it is how they are designed, it gets more tread on the road.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@nevis1003, @davidof, is it possible you are talking about two different things?
Tyre profile hight is the mm in the usual range between 70mm to 140mm (depending on a car type) is what @nevis1003 had in mind if I read it correctly.
@davidof possibly pointing to the thread design and shape - which flatter on winter tyres for a bigger road surface contact?
The profile hight should be followed as per car’s manual (rtfm.com)  while the flatter shape of winters is tyre manufacturing functional design feature.
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| nevis1003 wrote: |
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| nevis1003 wrote: |
Similarly, driving at normal speeds you won't notice any difference in performance from winters in summer, unless you're on a German autobahn at 150mph |
Have you ever driven a 'performance' car around twisty Alpine roads? I promise you that you'd feel the difference almost immediately if you were a passenger in mine on my normal 15km drive down to the valley and back |
Whats the difference between a twisty road in the Alps and a twisty road anywhere else? It's about cornering forces on the tyre. If you drive round motorway bends 150 mph then you will also wear out tyres. |
Motorways don't generally have twisty roads, and anyway, you were talking there about performance, not tyre wear, so I was simply providing an example where "at normal speeds" you would indeed "notice the difference".
| nevis1003 wrote: |
| I drive normally, and my winter tyres last about 20k. If you want to change your tyres and race about, that's up to you, but I don't find it necessary. |
Bully for you. That does not, however, validate your earlier assertion that it's "an urban myth that they wear out quicker in summer".
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Wed 9-11-22 11:16; edited 1 time in total
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| nevis1003 wrote: |
That's rubbish, you should be fitting winter tyres with the same profile as your summer ones. If you don't do that and fit a different profile then you will really affect your car's handling, and may invalidate your insurance. |
Eh? No.
Most cars specify a range of recommended wheel and tyre sizes and pressures.
Most people with winter wheels and tyres go for a slightly narrower winter one, and a slightly smaller rim, both of which mean a higher profile tyre for approximately the same overall diameter, all within manufacturer's recommendations.
Yes, you may notice a difference in handling.
No, it will not invalidate your insurance.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Most of us don't drive performance cars fast round twisty Alpine roads. Most of us don't understand the finer points of how fast the angels on the head of a pin will wear out their dancing shoes. Most of us would struggle to distinguish, in a blind test, whether we were driving at 130 kph down the road from Calais to Reims on winter or summer tyres. I know I couldn't. I'm not sure I could tell at 150 mph on a German autobahn, either and neither my Skoda Fabia nor my underpants would survive the attempt.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@davidof,
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@davidof, great skills 
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@Chaletbauroc Yes, in most cases a car manufacturer fully tests a range of wheel and tyre sizes on a specific model, and certifies that these are OK - you will usually see them listed in your Owners Manual. The wheel/tyre chart will usually be divided into winter sizes and summer sizes. In my case, there are three summer combinations and two (different) winter combinations that BMW certify for my specific model. I can go outside those combinations of wheel width/diameter and tyre width/aspect ratio/diameter, but if I do I'm on my own, especially in terms of insurance and/or handling. In the last five years, most insurers have switched to a default that winter wheels and tyres are covered without having to inform them, as long as the size combination is one that's certified by the manufacturer i.e. as listed in the Owners Manual. In most cases, the standard winter sizes are slightly smaller wheel diameter and slightly narrower wheel width and tyre width. So, for example, my car came with summer 18"x8" wheels but the manufacturer's standard winter wheel recmmendation for it is 17"x7½" and the corresponding tyres are 245mm wide versus 225mm wide. The extra ½" space released by the winter wheel allows for enough space for a conventional snow chain to rotate, whereas there wouldn't be enough space with the 8" wheel. In addition, the 20mm narrower winter tyres is less prone to aquaplaning and has better snow behaviour. And as a side-benefit, its lower profile will mean it rides more smoothly but at the price of not being as easy to turn while moving. The other winter option is to drop the wheel width by a full 1" (7" wide) and tyre width by 40mm (205mm wide).
But I sympathise with people who feel that a lot of these discussions are around differences that many people won't feel in regular day-to-day driving in an 'ordinary' car. And when you look at a lot of tyre reviews, the scoring differences are often actually within an extremely narrow band i.e. less than 5%-10% best vs worst. Can most drivers even feel these differences? But that's a bit off the point, because on a skiing forum, we're more concerned than most about driving in more extreme conditions than you get in the UK - heavy slush, snow, cold and ice. So these things perhaps do become more important than if we were discussing tyres just for UK travel.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
| @davidof, great skills |
ok if you don't own the vehicle
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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and are not driving the one coming the other way
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Poster: A snowHead
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| pam w wrote: |
| and are not driving the one coming the other way |
or in front, blocking the road
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Interesting to watch, and I observe a couple of things:
Nearly all of the sideways action is deliberately induced - each time you can see that they're using the steering to swing the van towards one side to make the rear wheels lose traction.
The filming vehicle is also making a lot of the same moves.
When they pass the small white car (Panda?) they both manage to keep perfectly straight.
There's nothing to support the idea that they're not both on winter tyres.
Ergo: the whole thing is a stunt, a set-up, with admittedly skilled drivers, probably including the Panda and probably with a fore-runner checking the road is clear.
Still fun to watch, mind.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@davidof, If you took that video chapeau. I have to admit I wouldn't have the courage to drive that close to the van. Especially since you were close enougth to observe what tyres he had on.
OK I'll confess I did lose it going down the road from Les Arcs to Bourg st Maurice last winter. I just didn't slow down sufficiently for the hairpin where the Courbaton road leaves the D119 and went straight on. No damage to the vehicle at all just found myself on a road I had no itntention of going down. The road had a light coating of snow and I was simply not driving as well as I should. Yes, I did have winter tyres on, rather than general purpose, but as it is often pointed out it is not the vehicle that is at fault but the nut holding the wheel. Drive according to the conditions.
@LaForet, it is very hard to get summer specific tyres in the UK. It just doesn't get hot enougth but with global warming perhaps we will need them soon.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| johnE wrote: |
@LaForet, it is very hard to get summer specific tyres in the UK. It just doesn't get hot enougth but with global warming perhaps we will need them soon. |
ICBW, but I don't think such a thing exists, TBH. The term is used in the US to distinguish summer vs winter vs all-season, but I don't think they're any different in principle from the ordinary tyres most people in the UK use all year round.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| johnE wrote: |
@LaForet, it is very hard to get summer specific tyres in the UK. It just doesn't get hot enougth but with global warming perhaps we will need them soon. |
ICBW, but I don't think such a thing exists, TBH. The term is used in the US to distinguish summer vs winter vs all-season, but I don't think they're any different in principle from the ordinary tyres most people in the UK use all year round. |
Certainly an interesting topic (probably deserves a technical thread that's not responding to forum request of advice as to which tyre to buy, if there's any taste for that ) as "ordinary tyres have moved toward wider lower carcass geometry (to facilitate ever higher lateral load capability, raised weight and cornering performance) with noise classification legislation causing less movement to achieve this by keeping tread blocks stable, then added eco credentials above those (lower rolling resistance etc) bringing a tyre direction that's diametrically opposed to those required for decent low temperature, low grip demands(a more flexible tread, larger gaps etc), its no surprise that a normal tyre responds quite poorly to winter tractuon demands, and be default makes the "ordinary" tyre a poorer choice for winter driving conditions.
It begs the question, are normal tyres really suitable for general year round motoring conditions in the average European market ? A all season tyre looks far more optimal than most other choices for a non interested car user.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| ski3 wrote: |
| A all season tyre looks far more optimal than most other choices for a non interested car user. |
Yes, I would say that's true, the main words there are a 'non interested car user', which will usually be someone who has a fairly basic car to get them from A to B. Once you move into performance models the difference between summer (ie what is fitted as standard) and winter tyres becomes more significant.
Performance models usually have higher speed ratings on the summer tyres ('Y' 186mph or Z over 150mph) which do not work very well at all in cold conditions, even wet UK winters. Winter tyres are a massive improvement for winter use on cars like this. Similarly the limitations of Winter tyres in summer are seen more quickly on performance cars because the structure of the tread has more flex that limits maximum cornering speeds when pushing the car to the limits.
All seasons are a compromise for sure, but an acceptable one for many average cars, and like you say is probably a better option than the standard summer tyres for anyone who's not really interested in cars or extracting the last % of performance from them.
And all seasons are definitely a better option than summers for driving to the alps. Personally though I'll stick to having two sets of tyres, summer and winter for optimum performance in both scenarios.
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| johnE wrote: |
| ... it is very hard to get summer specific tyres in the UK. |
Delticom websites list "summer tyres", "all-season tyres" and "winter tyres".
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| rjs wrote: |
| johnE wrote: |
| ... it is very hard to get summer specific tyres in the UK. |
Delticom websites list "summer tyres", "all-season tyres" and "winter tyres". |
Summer tyres are what you get by default on all new UK cars, all UK rental cars and almost all UK used cars (unless owned by a snowhead or other person interested in driving around in snow).
Cars in the UK only have all-seasons or winters if someone has specifically bought them. This also applies to SUVs, including ones with good off road capability like toyota land cruisers and range rovers. They are also fitted with summer tyres too, though sometimes a bit more chunky tread for muddy fields etc.
This is why summer tyres are often not called out as such because it's the default on 99% of the cars in the UK
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| nevis1003 wrote: |
That's rubbish, you should be fitting winter tyres with the same profile as your summer ones. If you don't do that and fit a different profile then you will really affect your car's handling, and may invalidate your insurance. |
Eh? No.
Most cars specify a range of recommended wheel and tyre sizes and pressures.
Most people with winter wheels and tyres go for a slightly narrower winter one, and a slightly smaller rim, both of which mean a higher profile tyre for approximately the same overall diameter, all within manufacturer's recommendations.
Yes, you may notice a difference in handling.
No, it will not invalidate your insurance. |
Not all cars, in fact most cars do not specify a range of tyres sizes which you can use. That's more nonsense. While you do not have to inform your insurance company about using winter tyres, you do have to inform them if you use a tyre which does not have the same profile/size or speed rating as the one with which it is fitted new. (Unless, it is one of the few cars allowing a range of tyres, and that range is usually very limited) When I do accident investigations, for insurance companies, tyres size/ profile, speed rating are all on the list of things I check. It can also be a con and use offence to use an incorrect tyre, in some cases. An example of this would be a tyre which protrudes past the wheel arch. Another would be where the tyre fouls bodywork at the max range of steering. Also in 10 years of using winter tyres on my 4x4 all year, they do 20k without wearing out, so it is absolute nonsense that they wear out quicker. Unless you are driving well above the speed limit, which wears out any tyres much quicker.
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| nevis1003 wrote: |
| Also in 10 years of using winter tyres on my 4x4 all year, they do 20k without wearing out, so it is absolute nonsense that they wear out quicker. Unless you are driving well above the speed limit, which wears out any tyres much quicker. |
Not in my experience. Runnnig winters only in winter I get 50K km or more out of them. Running them all year I get 25k km. Regular tyres I get 80k km or more (van tyres on a VW transporter).
The difference may be I get a lot of days over 30C and april to october (march to november this year) the daytime high is over 20C. Snow tyres don't like heat. They especially don't like speed + heat ( By speed I mean 135kph not more)
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| nevis1003 wrote: |
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
Most cars specify a range of recommended wheel and tyre sizes and pressures.
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Not all cars, in fact most cars do not specify a range of tyres sizes which you can use. That's more nonsense. |
You're just trolling now, aren't you?
It's quite easy to verify - pick a car, any car, search for standard wheel and tyre sizes, see if there's more than one. I picked one at random, feel free to go through the whole list if you like. https://www.wheel-size.com/size/skoda/octavia/2018/#trim-18tsi-eudm-177
Come back when you've counted them all and tell me that it's less than 50% of models if you really want to quibble about the semantics of 'more'.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My bog-standard Golf lists 3 different sizes in the manual. In fact, if I want to use conventional chains, I have to go down a wheel size (6.5J to 6J). My previous Passat had 205 summers on its standard UK-issue alloys, but 195 winters on slightly narrower steel rims.
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| nevis1003 wrote: |
| most cars do not specify a range of tyres sizes which you can use.. |
That’s just wrong, I’m afraid. The info plate (usually by the drivers door) will show several approved sizes of tyre.
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You know it makes sense.
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| nevis1003 wrote: |
| most cars do not specify a range of tyres sizes which you can use. That's more nonsense. |
Really? Because every car I've driven has had a chart on the inside of the driver's door specifying a variety of certified tyre sizes that can be fitted and what their respective unloaded and loaded pressures should be - I thought it was a legal requirement? This from my current car:
But yes, I have to go to my Owners Manual (or my dealer's service advisor) to get the full specification which also shows the wheel sizes associated with each tyre size e.g. the 225/45-17 winters would be on 7.5Jx17 wheels.
| Quote: |
| you do have to inform them if you use a tyre which does not have the same profile/size or speed rating as the one with which it is fitted new. |
I don't think so. In the last 3-4 years, the insurance companies have mostly agreed that as long as the wheel and tyre combination is certified by the manufacturer i.e. as on the chart above and in the manual, then you don't have to tell them (below, for winter tyres, which is the subject of this thread) but if you go outside The Chart, so to speak, you do. For winter tyres, the only exceptions are eCar, Southern Rock and Swiftcover - such stupidity alone being reason enough to avoid them, in my view.
| Quote: |
| I'm not aware of any agreement that changing tyre or wheel size has been accepted as not modifying, and so doesn't require reporting to your insurance company. |
.. the ABI has produced the Commitment set out below which sets out the position of those named motor insurers in respect of the impact on the insurance premiums of their insured customers if a customer wishes to fit winter tyres to their car. See the The ABI Tyre Committment
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Thu 10-11-22 11:57; edited 3 times in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've got 2 cars at home, a Seat and a Suzuki, both show only 1 tyre and wheel size on the door sticker, and the related pressures for that.
However, if you change the tyres or wheel size then that's a modification as far as insurance companies go. It might be a permitted one, but when you take out a policy you have to answer the question, have you modified the vehicle in any way. They ask you this every time. It's failure to answer this correctly which could cause you a problem, not the modification (if it's permitted).
You can chip your car up, change the engine or suspension, its not illegal, the problem is not telling the insurance company you have done it.
Changing from summer to winter tyres is not a modification as long as the size/speed/load rating hasn't changed, hence you don't have to report that. I'm not aware of any agreement that changing tyre or wheel size has been accepted as not modifying, and so doesn't require reporting to your insurance company. Some of the less reputable ones are always on the lookout for any reason not to pay out, so I wouldn't hand them one on a plate.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| nevis1003 wrote: |
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
Most cars specify a range of recommended wheel and tyre sizes and pressures.
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Not all cars, in fact most cars do not specify a range of tyres sizes which you can use. That's more nonsense. |
You're just trolling now, aren't you?
It's quite easy to verify - pick a car, any car, search for standard wheel and tyre sizes, see if there's more than one. I picked one at random, feel free to go through the whole list if you like. https://www.wheel-size.com/size/skoda/octavia/2018/#trim-18tsi-eudm-177
Come back when you've counted them all and tell me that it's less than 50% of models if you really want to quibble about the semantics of 'more'. |
Your trolling, what does a commercial website selling wheels have to do with what insurance companies regard as notifiable modifications. Absolutely irrelevant rubbish.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| nevis1003 wrote: |
| I've got 2 cars at home, a Seat and a Suzuki, both show only 1 tyre and wheel size on the door sticker, and the related pressures for that. |
Like earlier when you were claiming that winter tyres don't wear out any quicker if left on all summer, you're extrapolating from your own, apparently very limited, experience and using that to make completely ridiculous generalised claims that just don't match reality.
Here's another one for you, showing four possible rim diameters and nine possible tyre sizes:
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Chaletbeauroc, @LaForet, @Idris, I agree with you all, plus I have the sticker above on the inside front door listing various tyre sizes.
And as @Idris, @Chaletbeauroc, says, conditions in the Mountains (note not the Lake District), throughout the year can go from minus 25 to plus 35 give or take a few degrees either side.
In the deepest of winter snow will lay on most side/access roads so tyres will not be on tarmac, though main roads get cleared very quickly.
Currently, I'm looking at pricing for 4 Winter tyres* sourced from a garage here in the mountains, though I've yet to go down and have a chat and see what they think of my four seasons, or I just wait for the first dump and see if I can still get up my hill on them, if so I must just keep them on, as long as the Haldex is still working 
*binned my last set of Winter's even though they still had a few K left on them, as I was doing a road trip down to Southern Spain so opted for the 4 Seasons instead, which were back in the UK.....long logistics story
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sourced from a garage in the mountains, hilarious, is it on the top of the Matterhorn?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| nevis1003 wrote: |
| .. if you change the tyres or wheel size then that's a modification as far as insurance companies go. It might be a permitted one, but .. |
I think the disagreement here is arising from your generalising from specific cases or related but not relevant cases. In the context of winter wheels and tyres - not performance mods, which no one else here is discussing - the industry policy is that it is not necessary to inform you insurer when you fit winter tyres, as long as they are in a configuration certified by the manufacturer. Yes, there are three exceptions, but every other insurer applies this policy, supported by the document I referenced from their trade association.
You're also asserting that most cars don't certify more than one wheel/tyre combination because your cars don't. But I think you'll find that the majority of cars on the road do, as evidenced by the examples I and others have given. But of course, this can't be proven without going to more effort than most people on the forum can be bothered to invest.
You have to be careful again in generalising about winter tyre wear in summer. I've had winters in summer on my Peugeot 206 and would say they didn't seem to wear much faster than when I had summers or all-seasons. But the industry recommendation is very clearly that the compound chemistry of a full winter tyre is not well-suited to warmer summer temperatures. In particular that in summer, winters will have inferior braking distances compared to summers, all other things being equal. This is partly due to the compound chemistry and partly due to the tread design. But again, for a non-performance vehicle, this inferiority in terms of wear and braking distance may not be very apparent if circumstances don't highlight it. Yes, you'll see cars in the mountains that have winters on all year, but I suspect this is because that's where the cars spend most of their time and like UK drivers running summers all year, it's the best compromise if they don't want to run to two sets.
I share your concern that a lot of people make performance and drivetrain modifications to their cars without any realisation that come an accident or breakdown claim, they may find that the loss adjuster/claims manager may identify the mod' and disclaim all liabilty. BUt at least as far as winter wheels and tyres are concerned - which is the focus of the discussion here - the industry has come to its senses and realised that the sort of customer who uses winters/all-seasons is probably more responsible than the average, and that a blanket policy of non-notification is in everyone's best interests anyway (other than the three insurers who, stupidly, don't). Before this policy decision, I would have said that it was anyway best to contact your insurer and ask, but now that the policy has been announced with supporting documentation, I don't see the point. And if a claims agent is so incompetent that they're not aware of this (in my experience, entirely possible), then they'd reject your claim even if you had previously got the OK from the insurer - as you say, some of these are indeed cowboys.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 10-11-22 12:06; edited 2 times in total
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| Weathercam wrote: |
Currently, I'm looking at pricing for 4 Winter tyres* sourced from a garage here in the mountains, |
I've just got two new winters which I sourced from allopneus and will have fitted by the local citroen garage. Getting the winters you want locally (in Grenoble) is a nightmare and a lottery so I've given up with the local garages. YMMV of course.
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@davidof, I've used pneus-online.fr a few times in the past, more recently their Swiss equivalent. They can deliver direct to a garage or tyre centre of your choice, and indeed some tyre places in France have actually used them as suppliers in their own right. Online suppliers also tend to have a much wider range of budget winter tyres, which IME have been just as good as premium brands.
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Just getting my all seasons put on as we speak, and my £100 unopened snow chains from my last car are. .Needless to say...the wrong size bah!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@holidayloverxx, I think you're looking at it backwards.
We try and make our body shape fit the clothes we bought, so by the same logic we should only buy cars whose tyres fit our existing snow chains.
Just think - you'd save 100 quid every three years by not having to buy new chains
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My steel rims with winter tyres and the chains to go with them are with their third car. First thing I checked when test driving the current car was whether the size was one of the approved ones.
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