 Poster: A snowHead
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I never thought to check if another size was approved. The only difference is the chains are 60 and the tyres are 55
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@rjs, Same for our small 2wd - I've changed the tyres now to studs, but the rims are on their 3rd Fiat Punto. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| holidayloverxx wrote: |
| Just getting my all seasons put on as we speak, and my £100 unopened snow chains from my last car are. .Needless to say...the wrong size bah! |
I ended up with a shed of chains, which I eventually scrapped but they may have come in handy for the latest cars. Law of sod.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| nevis1003 wrote: |
| Sourced from a garage in the mountains, hilarious, is it on the top of the Matterhorn? |
I actually said here in the Mountains 
Briançon to be precise, at 1,250 and that's m not ft.
Just that the guys here I surmise, if the local VW garage is anything to go by in my dealings with then over the Haldex transmission debacle, know and have slightly more experience than you might find in the likes of Keswick 
I've been looking Online, but I presume it's a bit like bike shops looking down their noses at the punter walking in with something he's bought online and doesn't have the skillsets to fix it.
Could be wrong, but it might work out cheaper buying from a specialist garage here, of which there are three, than going online, as they might not charge as much for fitting ??
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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All season tires is not too much to ask I don't think.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@rjs, Wish l had done the same as you.
Below is a quote from my new vehicle manual which I hadn’t spotted until it was too late
“ Vehicles with 235/55R19 tires
Tire chains cannot be mounted. Snow tires should be used instead.”
I’m in the process of acquiring 4 winter tyres (my preference are Yokohama Blue Earth Winter V905 - have used them on 2 previous vehicles). That is fine but what do I do about chains? According to snowchains.co.uk the only chains that will fit are Konig K-Summit XXL at £450 a pair. They may well fit but what happens if I have an accident with them fitted. Will I have broken the manufacturer’s conditions of use and invalidated any insurance claim? And how do I get up the mountain if the police want to see my chains? The vehicle is a 4x4 so I’m tempted just to risk it and have a cheap pair to show them and hope I’ll get away with not needing them. I’m regularly up and down to Scotland so have been in the habit of swapping to winters for several years so happy to invest in them but not sure about another £450 for the chains. The tyre size seems to be the only size approved so no option to change to smaller tyres that will allow chains.
Anybody got any ideas?
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@rdsweb, if you've got winter tyres on, my understanding is they can't stop you for not having chains. You could try tyre socks instead?
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@rdsweb, It is a european regs requirement that the car manufacturers test and approve the car for snow chains (as i was advised by Volvo) ... its just that they will (typically) only do it for one size of tyre and one type of chain per model - so there will be a wheel/tyre combo that will take chains for your car, just not the one the car is supplied with.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@JonA, thanks for the advice. It’s a Toyota Rav 4 so not exactly a rare vehicle. I’ll have a go at Toyota and see what they say
@swskier, socks might just be the perfect solution. I hadn’t thought of them
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| rdsweb wrote: |
@rjs, Wish l had done the same as you.
Below is a quote from my new vehicle manual which I hadn’t spotted until it was too late
“ Vehicles with 235/55R19 tires
Tire chains cannot be mounted. Snow tires should be used instead.”
I’m in the process of acquiring 4 winter tyres (my preference are Yokohama Blue Earth Winter V905 - have used them on 2 previous vehicles). That is fine but what do I do about chains? According to snowchains.co.uk the only chains that will fit are Konig K-Summit XXL at £450 a pair. They may well fit but what happens if I have an accident with them fitted. Will I have broken the manufacturer’s conditions of use and invalidated any insurance claim? And how do I get up the mountain if the police want to see my chains? The vehicle is a 4x4 so I’m tempted just to risk it and have a cheap pair to show them and hope I’ll get away with not needing them. I’m regularly up and down to Scotland so have been in the habit of swapping to winters for several years so happy to invest in them but not sure about another £450 for the chains. The tyre size seems to be the only size approved so no option to change to smaller tyres that will allow chains.
Anybody got any ideas? |
Its my understanding that some full-time 4x4 transmission systems cannot cope with chains just on two wheels which could be the issue the the RAV4. I've had this explained to me at GVA airport when car rental companies have refused to provide chains with 4x4 cars. In any case you will be fine with winter tyres and 4x4 in most conditions. I have a AWD estate with all-seasons and no issues to date going over steep snowy and icey roads in resort or driving through snow storms through the Jura mountains. I have expensive Thule easy-fit chains in the boot for my unusual tyre size that have never been used.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Ozboy, I think it’s more to do with the clearance as I have now finally discovered that I could fit 17 or 18 inch rims if I wanted and chains are approved for them
@Raceplate, Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. It’s a Toyota RAV4 and I’ve now discovered that the “new” spec comes with 19” rims as standard but I could have requested 17 or 18 inch rims when ordering. Needless to say it didn’t cross anybody’s mind to mention the chain problem and although I’m happy to swap the tyres for winters on the rims I’ve got I don’t fancy buying an extra set of rims as well as tyres.
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| LaForet wrote: |
| nevis1003 wrote: |
| .. if you change the tyres or wheel size then that's a modification as far as insurance companies go. It might be a permitted one, but .. |
I think the disagreement here is arising from your generalising from specific cases or related but not relevant cases. In the context of winter wheels and tyres - not performance mods, which no one else here is discussing - the industry policy is that it is not necessary to inform you insurer when you fit winter tyres, as long as they are in a configuration certified by the manufacturer. Yes, there are three exceptions, but every other insurer applies this policy, supported by the document I referenced from their trade association.
You're also asserting that most cars don't certify more than one wheel/tyre combination because your cars don't. But I think you'll find that the majority of cars on the road do, as evidenced by the examples I and others have given. But of course, this can't be proven without going to more effort than most people on the forum can be bothered to invest.
You have to be careful again in generalising about winter tyre wear in summer. I've had winters in summer on my Peugeot 206 and would say they didn't seem to wear much faster than when I had summers or all-seasons. But the industry recommendation is very clearly that the compound chemistry of a full winter tyre is not well-suited to warmer summer temperatures. In particular that in summer, winters will have inferior braking distances compared to summers, all other things being equal. This is partly due to the compound chemistry and partly due to the tread design. But again, for a non-performance vehicle, this inferiority in terms of wear and braking distance may not be very apparent if circumstances don't highlight it. Yes, you'll see cars in the mountains that have winters on all year, but I suspect this is because that's where the cars spend most of their time and like UK drivers running summers all year, it's the best compromise if they don't want to run to two sets.
I share your concern that a lot of people make performance and drivetrain modifications to their cars without any realisation that come an accident or breakdown claim, they may find that the loss adjuster/claims manager may identify the mod' and disclaim all liabilty. BUt at least as far as winter wheels and tyres are concerned - which is the focus of the discussion here - the industry has come to its senses and realised that the sort of customer who uses winters/all-seasons is probably more responsible than the average, and that a blanket policy of non-notification is in everyone's best interests anyway (other than the three insurers who, stupidly, don't). Before this policy decision, I would have said that it was anyway best to contact your insurer and ask, but now that the policy has been announced with supporting documentation, I don't see the point. And if a claims agent is so incompetent that they're not aware of this (in my experience, entirely possible), then they'd reject your claim even if you had previously got the OK from the insurer - as you say, some of these are indeed cowboys. |
Insurance companies do accept the change to winter tyres, if the size for your model of car, speed rating etc has not changed.
Where the other posters are wrong is that the door label they like to post pictures of, for some reason, is a list of sizes which may be found across a model range. It doesn’t mean it’s okay to fit it on every car. My last car was a Renault Kadjar which has numerous models, with I think 16/17 inch wheels up to 19 inch on the 4x4.
So, if you have the 4x4 model with 19 inch wheels, which don’t take chains as they foul the bodywork, then you can fit the 17 inch wheel and correct tyre, but that modification needs to be reported to your insurance, if it is a UK policy. That is because your model of Kadjar does not ever come with that wheel size, so it is a modification.
Also, some winter tyres do not have the same speed rating as the normal tyre, I know using a tyre with a different speed/load rating can result in refusal to accept claims, if you have not notified your insurance company.
Nobody has mentioned the recalibration of speedometers which can be necessary with different wheel/tyre sizes? EG you go from 16 inch wheel to 19 inch because you think the door label means you can do that?
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You know it makes sense.
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| nevis1003 wrote: |
Nobody has mentioned the recalibration of speedometers which can be necessary with different wheel/tyre sizes? EG you go from 16 inch wheel to 19 inch because you think the door label means you can do that? |
I will give you a tip that may help you with your insurance investigations.
When you go from a 16 inch wheel to a 19 inch wheel, you fit a lower profile tyre to maintain the same rolling diameter. HTH.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| nevis1003 wrote: |
| LaForet wrote: |
| nevis1003 wrote: |
| .. if you change the tyres or wheel size then that's a modification as far as insurance companies go. It might be a permitted one, but .. |
I think the disagreement here is arising from your generalising from specific cases or related but not relevant cases. In the context of winter wheels and tyres - not performance mods, which no one else here is discussing - the industry policy is that it is not necessary to inform you insurer when you fit winter tyres, as long as they are in a configuration certified by the manufacturer. Yes, there are three exceptions, but every other insurer applies this policy, supported by the document I referenced from their trade association.
You're also asserting that most cars don't certify more than one wheel/tyre combination because your cars don't. But I think you'll find that the majority of cars on the road do, as evidenced by the examples I and others have given. But of course, this can't be proven without going to more effort than most people on the forum can be bothered to invest.
You have to be careful again in generalising about winter tyre wear in summer. I've had winters in summer on my Peugeot 206 and would say they didn't seem to wear much faster than when I had summers or all-seasons. But the industry recommendation is very clearly that the compound chemistry of a full winter tyre is not well-suited to warmer summer temperatures. In particular that in summer, winters will have inferior braking distances compared to summers, all other things being equal. This is partly due to the compound chemistry and partly due to the tread design. But again, for a non-performance vehicle, this inferiority in terms of wear and braking distance may not be very apparent if circumstances don't highlight it. Yes, you'll see cars in the mountains that have winters on all year, but I suspect this is because that's where the cars spend most of their time and like UK drivers running summers all year, it's the best compromise if they don't want to run to two sets.
I share your concern that a lot of people make performance and drivetrain modifications to their cars without any realisation that come an accident or breakdown claim, they may find that the loss adjuster/claims manager may identify the mod' and disclaim all liabilty. BUt at least as far as winter wheels and tyres are concerned - which is the focus of the discussion here - the industry has come to its senses and realised that the sort of customer who uses winters/all-seasons is probably more responsible than the average, and that a blanket policy of non-notification is in everyone's best interests anyway (other than the three insurers who, stupidly, don't). Before this policy decision, I would have said that it was anyway best to contact your insurer and ask, but now that the policy has been announced with supporting documentation, I don't see the point. And if a claims agent is so incompetent that they're not aware of this (in my experience, entirely possible), then they'd reject your claim even if you had previously got the OK from the insurer - as you say, some of these are indeed cowboys. |
Insurance companies do accept the change to winter tyres, if the size for your model of car, speed rating etc has not changed.
Where the other posters are wrong is that the door label they like to post pictures of, for some reason, is a list of sizes which may be found across a model range. It doesn’t mean it’s okay to fit it on every car. My last car was a Renault Kadjar which has numerous models, with I think 16/17 inch wheels up to 19 inch on the 4x4.
So, if you have the 4x4 model with 19 inch wheels, which don’t take chains as they foul the bodywork, then you can fit the 17 inch wheel and correct tyre, but that modification needs to be reported to your insurance, if it is a UK policy. That is because your model of Kadjar does not ever come with that wheel size, so it is a modification.
Also, some winter tyres do not have the same speed rating as the normal tyre, I know using a tyre with a different speed/load rating can result in refusal to accept claims, if you have not notified your insurance company.
Nobody has mentioned the recalibration of speedometers which can be necessary with different wheel/tyre sizes? EG you go from 16 inch wheel to 19 inch because you think the door label means you can do that? |
My car specifies the specs for an alternative winter tyre rim width, rim size and seed rating to be fitted in the manual for my specific model. There is also a setting when switching to winter tyres which provides a warning if speed exceeds the rating .
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Poster: A snowHead
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I think we now know why dealing with insurance companies can be such a PITA
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| BergenBergen wrote: |
| nevis1003 wrote: |
Nobody has mentioned the recalibration of speedometers which can be necessary with different wheel/tyre sizes? EG you go from 16 inch wheel to 19 inch because you think the door label means you can do that? |
I will give you a tip that may help you with your insurance investigations.
When you go from a 16 inch wheel to a 19 inch wheel, you fit a lower profile tyre to maintain the same rolling diameter. HTH. |
Certainly that's how I understand it too, with the tyre sizes within (usually) very low percentage difference from one iteration to the others and mostly expect to see <1 % fluctuations. There's some good online comparison calculator links on some tyre sites that let you compare if unsure.
There's obvious and fundamental reasons, brake caliper, wheel arch, suspension component, clearances. Also an overriding one of all the vehicle's crash structures, impact strengthening zones etc that are required to remain within the type approval/homologation crash testing regimes that the vehicle has to pass through to be sold into markets covered by that legislation.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| rdsweb wrote: |
| @Raceplate, Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. It’s a Toyota RAV4 and I’ve now discovered that the “new” spec comes with 19” rims as standard but I could have requested 17 or 18 inch rims when ordering. Needless to say it didn’t cross anybody’s mind to mention the chain problem and although I’m happy to swap the tyres for winters on the rims I’ve got I don’t fancy buying an extra set of rims as well as tyres. |
You read that quick! I realised you had a Toyota after I'd posted moaning about Audi and deleted. Anyway, glad it helped. Just put a high-quality set of all-seasons on (Goodyear Vector 4 Seasons Gen 3 are available in your size - some good deals at Kwik-fit online) and buy a pair of Autosocks to go with them. You'll be good to go and I doubt you'll ever use the socks but they're there to please the gendarmes if required.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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And just to counter the usual Snowheads prejudice against snow socks, I once drove a difficult, snowy, road with steep gradients up and down, with chains on my winter tyres, with the ABS system grunting and groaning, behind a car with snow socks, which did absolutely fine. They do tend to wear out, but you won't be using them for long.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@rdsweb If the issue is only one of clearance behind the tyre (as opposed to a quirk of the 4x4 transmission) then the front-fitting type of chains (front of the wheel/tyre, not the front wheels) should be an option. Something like the Spikes Spider Easy are of this type. But they do cost more than equivalent conventional chains. And they probably need some adjustment of the links - mine came set to the smallest wheel/tyre diameter in their range. One upside I found is that my Spike Spiders fit a much wider range of wheel sizes than a conventional chainset: if I’d bought these three cars ago, I wouldn’t have three sets of conventional chains in the garage that don’t fit the current car.
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 10-11-22 23:12; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
But they do cost more than equivalent conventional chains. And they probably need some adjustment of the links as they come set to the smallest wheel/tyre diameter in their range.
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All true. A friend - a very capable friend - bought these for his Volvo, in Albertville. The guy at the shop did the adjustments and it took him some time, even though he was evidently well used to it. My friend ruefully said it would have taken him ages. Then the first time he had to use them, going down a steep winding road, he got to the bottom only to discover that one had disappeared, never to be found. And yes, he did have winter tyres too
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Well, the trouble with chains of all types is that they really are a last resort and however good, don’t compare to having a winter tyre sitting on the snow (under easier conditions). No one wants to put them on, but sometimes there’s just no alternative if you want to progress. But their undoubted drawbacks don’t invalidate them as a solution in extremis. And a trial fitting at leisure before you go to the Alps is not just desirable, to my mind, but essential if you want to minimise the hassle and effort involved in fitting them in the cold, up a mountain, in the snow, probably at night.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 10-11-22 23:25; edited 1 time in total
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@LaForet, indeed, chains are good in a very limited set of circumstances. Chains and summers are not a replacement of good winters.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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But chains and winters can be the only way you'll get up the mountains.
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| pam w wrote: |
| But chains and winters can be the only way you'll get up the mountains. |
Indeed, but that would be very rare and most likely roads would be closed. In several occasions drove in heavy snow, blizzard and never had to use chains in my ex 4x4 and good nokian winters. On other, much more benign, occasions was forces to put chains on hire car’s summers - loads of swearing and brown trousers moments, and I come from a place where having fun on a frozen lake is not uncommon, winters are compulsory so know how to drive on wintery roads. Thus summers + chains = stupid; good winters are good for most situations; and winters + chains is for the last 1% of situations if the roads are not yet closed
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| pam w wrote: |
| But chains and winters can be the only way you'll get up the mountains. |
I think that really depends on which mountain and what your vehicle drivetrain is. In two seasons as a driver in the 3Vs, I put chains on winter tyred two-wheel drive vehicles regularly. I've never put them on a 4wd with winters or my personal 4wd vehicles with quality all-seasons (Subaru and Audi - both permanent 4wd, I don't trust haldex clutch systems for 4wd). I've also been waved through a snowmageddon compulsory chain fitting station by the gendarmes in the Subaru when they've seen the tyres - they obviously know which cars don't get stuck!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| BergenBergen wrote: |
| nevis1003 wrote: |
Nobody has mentioned the recalibration of speedometers which can be necessary with different wheel/tyre sizes? EG you go from 16 inch wheel to 19 inch because you think the door label means you can do that? |
I will give you a tip that may help you with your insurance investigations.
When you go from a 16 inch wheel to a 19 inch wheel, you fit a lower profile tyre to maintain the same rolling diameter. HTH. |
Indeed. You wouldn’t go from the 16” to the 19” tyre for your car without also changing the associated wheel size as specified in the Owners Manual or as directed by your garage. The certified wheel+tyre combinations operate on the principle of preserving the rolling radius: the distance from the centre of the wheel to the tread (ditto the rolling diameter - the distance from one side of the tyre to the opposite side, which is 2x the rolling radius). The certified combinations all keep this distance consistent, so that the odometer and speedometer are consistent and the suspension dynamics are within the envelope tested and approved by the manufacturer. All other things being equal, as you change the wheel and tyre diameter the aspect ratio (the ratio of the sidewall height to the tread width) also changes, decreasing as the wheel diameter increases, thus producing tyres of a lower profile as the the sidewall height decreases. Hence the term ‘low profile’.
Of course, if you step outside the certified combinations, then the danger is that you go outside the rolling radius/diameter, which can affect the suspension dynamics and handling adversely. The tyre may also simply not fit and foul the wheel arch or suspension components. There’s also the zero sum game between wider low profile tyres (easier turning) and narrower high profile tyres (more resistant to aquaplaning and softer ride) where you can’t have it both ways. Plus the odometer and speedometer may read too low, which could be misleading/illegal.
I’m with the insurers in any concerns that simplistic customers think that just putting on wider tyres and wider wheels makes for better handling, with no price to pay. But there is, inasmuch as doing this may put the car’s handling well outside anything tested by the manufacturer and make it more prone to aquaplaning in the wet - both of which might induce accidents that otherwise would not occur.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 11-11-22 0:16; edited 2 times in total
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No, I don't think they ever insist on chains on 4WD vehicles unless your tyres are really bald. But it is by no means uncommon to be required to chain up 2WD vehicles, even with winter tyres - it only happened to me once, but I normally religiously avoided snowy roads on transfer days. It happened to several of my friends and visitors, driving from Geneva in Swiss rental cars on snowy, busy, transfer days. The roads were not closed, or near to closing, but they kept moving only because the gendarmes were so strict about requiring chains. It would be foolhardy to rely on getting up the mountain on a busy snowy day without chains, even with good winter tyres.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Raceplate wrote: |
| pam w wrote: |
| But chains and winters can be the only way you'll get up the mountains. |
I think that really depends on which mountain and what your vehicle drivetrain is. In two seasons as a driver in the 3Vs, I put chains on winter tyred two-wheel drive vehicles regularly. I've never put them on a 4wd with winters or my personal 4wd vehicles with quality all-seasons (Subaru and Audi - both permanent 4wd, I don't trust haldex clutch systems for 4wd). I've also been waved through a snowmageddon compulsory chain fitting station by the gendarmes in the Subaru when they've seen the tyres - they obviously know which cars don't get stuck! |
Definitely a significant difference in transmissions as you state. I don't feel that many realise just how much they can affect the real/practical deployment when traction gets particularly low, even to the extent that owners are unaware of what they've bought or it's most usable aspects.
The Haldex system is interesting in that it's a traction only drive of four wheels only when the front drive has started to slip (it's monitoring shaft speed across that rear coupling/clutch pack as I understand it) with programmed difference in ecu report calling the clutch to engage rear drive. Very effective in traction as it effectively locks the front and rear together (like a centre diff lock on 4x4) but released/quenched when traction is not needed. Importantly it drops the rear drive when brakes are applied and so no benefits from true 4wd are enacted for driving like slow decents under engine braking when low gear is used. It's the same then as any other front wheel drive vehicle, with just the abs to control pace in braking. They can give an odd feel in comparison to the two examples you note that'd both enact full time/true 4wd through all vehicle dynamics.
Obviously each vehicle needs the best grip it can access tyre wise, but some 4wd systems will emphatically make better use of the same available grip in deploying over an extended operating window.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@ski3, well put, and some interesting points.
I worked in the motor industry for 25 odd years and have driven an awful lot of vehicles in an awful lot of conditions. I came to the conclusion a long time ago that permanent 4wd with a switchable diff lock and low range gearbox is by far the best system for traction whether on snow or sand. But that's an old-school configuration that only really exists nowadays in hardcore SUVs and trucks and it's not very economical. I've always thought that Haldex clutches that decouple and effectively drive as fwd for most of the time were developed to save fuel costs, not because they're a better drive system. I agree that a large % of buyers wouldn't have a clue how the systems really work or what their pluses and minuses are. It's the same ignorance that leads people to think that 4wd = great grip without considering the attached tyre choice.
Your points about Haldex decoupling for braking are particularly salient. I've always considered permanent 4wd + good all-seasons to be a fair year-round compromise. I wouldn't be so confident about 2wd or haldex 4wd where I'd probably consider separate sets of summers and winters (and definitely if it was rwd). I know all-seasons will stop about a car length longer than a dedicated summer/winter tyre in their appropriate season but tests have also shown that a permanent 4wd system will stop at least a car length shorter than a 2wd. So in my mind, the permanent 4wd compensates for the tyre's shortcomings under braking whilst improving most other driving scenarios. I reckon that's win-win.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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[quote="pam w"]No, I don't think they ever insist on chains on 4WD vehicles unless your tyres are really bald. /quote]
Given the number of 4x4s I've seen in ditches on snowy roads that is probably an error.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Raceplate, how about my mostly electric 4wd? 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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You lot have it easy, when I go to winter rallies on my sidecar outfit I have to make my own chains from dismantled car ones and you try buying winter tyres for a motorcycle. Elefantreffen here I come.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| BergenBergen wrote: |
| nevis1003 wrote: |
Nobody has mentioned the recalibration of speedometers which can be necessary with different wheel/tyre sizes? EG you go from 16 inch wheel to 19 inch because you think the door label means you can do that? |
I will give you a tip that may help you with your insurance investigations.
When you go from a 16 inch wheel to a 19 inch wheel, you fit a lower profile tyre to maintain the same rolling diameter. HTH. |
Ah, thanks, what do you do if there is already a low profile tyre on the small wheel. Keep on digging, it's hilarious.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@davidof, you're right. I've seen some monsters in ditches too. And I've told the story of the Porsche Cayenne I towed out of a snowdrift with my Fiat Multipla too often. He was very grateful though.
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you try buying winter tyres for a motorcycle.
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The first time I came across winter tyres were actually for a motorcycle. They were for my trials bike. In those days trials were predominately a winter sport and we craved as much grip as possible on mud splattered rocks and pure deep mud (still do). Snow itself didn't matter because all the riders before you had churned it up to mud anyway. Since the tread was specified in the regulations all that could be varied was the rubber, hence the winter designation.
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| pam w wrote: |
| @davidof, you're right. I've seen some monsters in ditches too. And I've told the story of the Porsche Cayenne I towed out of a snowdrift with my Fiat Multipla too often. He was very grateful though. |
These, plus X5 BMW, Merc ML etc with really wide tyres are a type that highest consideration to winter tyres should be given. Very capable engineering in their execution but that very high performance in control of mass at high dry cornering loads is very considerably removed from low grip alpine conditions. It doesn't matter what's written on the badge, they need all the help they can get tyre wise to avoid a vehicle scenery amalgamation.
Missmatch of driver confidence and prevailing conditions will often bring some embarrassment.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Very capable engineering
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Matched with very incapable driving - but fortunately only pride was hurt in this instance. The big monster (surely one of the ugliest vehicles ever.... said the woman with the Fiat Multipla....) had wedged itself firmly in the high bank of solid snow left by a series of passing snowploughs. We had to pull him out obliquely, across the road, given the angle he was wedged, and send scouts up and down the road to stop any oncoming traffic in either direction.
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If we'd come round that bend at the speed he'd obviously gone into it - downhill - we'd have smashed straight into him.
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