 Poster: A snowHead
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I normally book a packaged ski trip with one of the tour operators and this year I decided to do a DIY trip (two actually!). A lot of work but quite enjoyed the researching process although not convinced it would be cheaper than a packaged one. So this got me thinking, what element in a ski trip that is time sensitive, i.e. price will go up the later (or earlier?!) you book?
I have the following:
Chalet/apartment - probably not very sensitive and occasionally could get good deals waiting till last minute. Although if booked late then most of the good choices (at least the better value for money choices) would be gone
Flights - obviously I believe the earlier you book flights the cheaper it will be (although on a few rare occasions I saw airlines doing promotions right after I've booked my flights)
Car rental - likely to b e cheaper the earlier you book
Transfer - same price no matter when you book
Ski passes - typically there may be early bird discounts in some resorts
Ski rental - typically the earlier you book the cheaper
Have I got that right? Obviously when "last minute" comes into play then that's different. You might be able to get a really good deal if you don't mind where you are going. What I'm less sure is if I would benefit booking super early or a bit later. Does the group size matter too? I found it was a lot easier to find an apartment for 6 people than it was for 12 people (if we all wanted to stay in one place).
Perhaps I should define what counts as early and late (for me and obviously people will have their own definition of early and late)
Super early: Up to one year in advance
Early: between August and October for the upcoming winter
Late: any time after early but before last minute
Last minute: Up to two weeks before departure
Would welcome your thoughts.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@euanovsky, Between "Early" and "Late" I would insert "Normal" from the start of October until the start of the season.
The rest seems to about right with the eception of car hire - prices have been falling recently and there have been reports here of people cancelling then immediately rebooking to get a lower cost.
Apartments for 12 people are a bit thin on the ground. Most apartments are designed for couples or single families.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If you have to balls I would wait to less than 24 hours to go before booking hire car, price plummets but it is risky
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I believe that the "hack" for car hire is to book cancellable stuff then look for cheaper deals later. I don't do it, but I think someone here said that is an approach.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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There's another variable - when you plan to travel. In France (don't know about elsewhere) if you plan to travel peak weeks (e.g. New Year, half term) the price of accommodation will be high, even very early, and half-decent places will be booked well in advance. You can't generally look for "last minute bargains" in accommodation. In peak weeks they'll be booked up well in advance, and in cheap weeks, when the base price will be less than half, it doesn't pay owners to cut their prices much, as they have fixed costs.
Flight costs for those peak weeks will sky rocket in the 12 hours after they are released by easyJet etc. But in, say, early December, the pattern is very different. We have a family holiday 1 April 2023 - by the time we got our act together flight prices were unaffordable, though it's low season in France. We shall all drive - because the cost of driving varies very little.
Ski lesson prices are generally fixed but slightly cheaper outside the main weeks - and again, if you are going in peak times, you might find there are no vacancies.
Yes, car hire prices are tricky - definitely not straightforwardly cheaper the earlier you book. I'm going to the Alps for four days on Friday - have booked a fully refundable car and will look for something cheaper at the last minute.
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It's definitely not always cheaper to DIY than a package but it can be. And there are other reasons to DIY/package.
The OP is flight based. DIY can also be drive (tunnel/ferry) or train, which have there own elements.
As mentioned if going peak weeks or have quite specific criteria booking accommodation early may be required. That said for HT 2022 I didn't book an apartment until mid-Jan (4/5 weeks before).
Personally I see no reason to book super early (1 yr +) even if that were possible.
I usually book 2-3 months in advance for Christmas and Easter trips. Tunnel crossing first, then accommodation and ski pass just before. But have been known to book late/last minute also.
4-6 person accommodation definitely easier than 7+. But you can always split, we've done that or do so out of choice - because it does have advantages anyway.
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The major reason to DIY, in my view, is the infinitely greater choice of resorts and accommodation.
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When we needed maximum bang for our buck we use to DIY and self drive. As a general rule of thumb if the car was full then the cost for a one week TO holiday equated to a two week self catering DIY job.
We always booked early, around April/May after researching and scouring rentals for a few weeks. Good quality accommodation was a more important factor than price, not stupidly priced but comfortable and separate rooms for adults etc and I never minded driving to the lift car park from our chalet/apartment.
We always had dates in mind and booked the accommodation first followed by travel and then the extras later on.
Sometimes booking passes in resort is cheaper, our last DIY was in Madonna and the chap who ran the campsite where our chalet was based took me down to the lift pass office and used his local discount to get all four of our area passes for the price of two and a half.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I always book DIY because I've found, at Easter, it's a fair bit cheaper than going package. My experience is that Easter flights don't get cheaper, especially if you're able to book as soon as the flights are released. Accomodation, we always go SC and the price seems to remain constant (using VRBO/AirBnb/InterChalet). Ski Hire seems a bit cheaper in advance with special offers etc.
Generally I'm not staying in premium accomdation and in Austrian resorts I've been ok with driving a short way to the slopes each day, I realise this isn't for everyone.
As others have said, car hire is much more fluid. I booked for last Easter about 6 months in advnace but cancelled it with 10 days to go as I was able to save well over £100. I've done the same for next Easter, car is booked at a price I'm ok with but I'll definitely take a look with a week to go.
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As mentioned, the least-risk ('though not riskless) approach is to self-drive and self-cater because this gives you the maximum flexibility of choice of destination and travel schedule. It obviates the problem of airport car rental being expensive, or of finding that you've booked a destination that is hard to get to by public transport or where flight arrival times don't readily coincide with transfer schedules.
If you decide to fly, then the two big factors people seem to have problems with are either transfer or destination. Often these are related e.g. "I've booked accommodation in {x} but am finding that transfers are a nightmare." or "We got some cheap flights into GVA but car hire is outrageous." or "We booked to go to {y} but it seems that there's no public transport connections to it.". In addition, people seem to be getting caught out this year by higher-than-expected ski pass prices e.g. "We booked our destination not realising how much the ski pass has gone up compared to our last visit." and/or their chosen destination seems to have relatively expensive ski and boot hire rates.
My advice is that the priority is to make sure you've got all the holiday ducks lined up in a row before committing: i.e. flights, destination, accommodation, car rental, public transport, ski pass, equipment rental etc. Once you have all this sorted, in my view, there's little benefit to deferring your booking. You may be able to get a meaningful discount on one element of it, but I think it unlikely in most cases.
If it's a group trip, with people arriving on different flights, then the value of choosing a resort accessible by public transport is that there's no issue if one of the flights is badly delayed: they can always follow on later. Even if you're hiring a vehicle, this will be a useful failsafe and avoid the entire group having to hang around the airport for hours waiting for just one person to turn up. And if you've booked a shared transfer, then there's always a point where the transfer has to give up, depart, and leave the late arrival to their own devices. The downside is that viable connections may demand that you take a much earlier flight than you would if your were renting a car.
This winter, we're not doing the usual self-drive, but are flying and then getting the train/télépherique to our destination. However, this has means that we have to get a much earlier flight than we otherwise would if we were renting a car. But given the train will be £95/person return versus at least £80/day base car rental, it's easily more cost-effective. But if there were more than just the two of us, self-drive would probably come out on top in terms of £/person.
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sun 9-10-22 15:55; edited 5 times in total
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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If you've got kids DIY can save you a lot, otherwise TO may well be cheaper.
Flights can vary quite a bit but booking earlier is usually better especially if going somewhere with limited flights like Innsbruck. I usually book for next year fairly soon after we get back and try not to fly at busy weekend times. It can work out cheaper flying on a Friday and having an extra night in a hotel (airport or resort), then fly back on say Monday evening. It makes for a more relaxed holiday with more ski time.
Booking budget airlines as soon as they come out can be cheapest. For the bigger carriers there is a theory that goes something like don't book as they are released or last minute. There is a sweet spot in between, about 3-4 months before flying.
Car hire is a lottery ATM. I suspect it will continue to come down in price for a bit longer but doubt we will ever get back to where it was pre-Covid.
I've not noticed much difference in hotel costs, but then we usually reserve for next year before leaving. Popular places fill up quickly for Christmas/New year and Easter (plus we prefer not to go Sat to Sat),
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I don't normally save much by DIYing, but I pretty much do DIY every time. The main reason I do it is that I get a flight/travel at a civilised hour and arrange a private transfer so there is no hanging about at the airport, or no 5am coach trip for a 3pm flight.
I haven't noticed a change in price at all with accomodation, though I dare say, if you booked with a day or so to go, there might be some bargains. The biggest saving will probably be on the timing of buying the flights. Normally the earlier the better.
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We always do a DIY trip for many of the reasons given above and always drive except for very short trips (eg 3 days) where it would not make sense. You have more control over where and when you go by booking DIY, especially so when you are driving. It probably does save money too but I would still do it even if it worked out more expensive because of the flexibility it gives.
I like driving anyway so it's an enjoyable part of the holiday. You can also bring a load of beer back in the car.
It's also good if you want to visit somewhere included in the lift pass that is a long way from the main resort, eg we sometimes go to Sonnenkopf for the day when staying in St Anton, that would be difficult and slow on public transport.
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You know it makes sense.
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My approach to DYI is:
1) look at flights - if too expensive commit to driving;
2) look at accommodation - we try to book the same place each year as its relatively cheap, well located and works for us - booked in May/Jun;
3) Kid Ski Lessons - generally don't have to go to early, but got a shock for next easter when the ski school said they had 3 spots left for the class we wanted for our 3 kids - that was in August 2022;
4) Eurostar - booked it at the end of August 22. Its price sensitive, but not too bad;
5) Ski hire - will contact the renal shop in Jan/feb 2023 and sort something out;
6) Lift passes - book the day we arrive in resort.
If we were flying I would look at transfers a couple of months before and then confirm in the weeks leading up.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Cool - all very good advice thanks all. I wasn't considering self drive as (1) we don't have a car (2) my OH is definitely not thrilled for a 12-hour drive. But happy for the discussion to be more general. Who knows one day we might drive to the alps!
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Poster: A snowHead
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The group I go with fly from a couple of airports in the UK. We usually pick a resort by the end of March and then book flights as soon as they come out.
We usually book accommodation earlyish to try to get a cheaper option before they book up.
Taxi transfers are booked with a couple of weeks to go.
Lift passes are bought in resort.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| pam w wrote: |
| The major reason to DIY, in my view, is the infinitely greater choice of resorts and accommodation. |
Also, 9 days skiing for 5 days leave ... or 4 days skiing for 0 days leave (Easter) ... which actually knocks all other economic considerations into a cocked hat, frankly, no?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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A few snowheads have mentioned about booking flights as soon as they come out. How early are the flights released and how do I find out that they have been released? 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@euanovsky, different airlines have different release schedules, but they normally publish them. E.g. Easyjet currently allow you to book 12 months in advance (this was 6 months pre covid IIRC).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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BA release flights midnight 355 days in advance, or sooner for new routes
easyJet release in tranches
Jet2 seem to have flights up to April 2024
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Also, 9 days skiing for 5 days leave ... or 4 days skiing for 0 days leave (Easter) ... which actually knocks all other economic considerations into a cocked hat, frankly, no?
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+1 - although you need to be going somewhere with a lot of accommodation choice with decent flexibility (e.g. Chamonix) for that to work out... One year at Easter our accommodation pulled the rug from under us 3 days before arrival (did a u-turn on allowing pets) so we needed to find somewhere for 12 nights spanning 2 weekends which accepted dogs - in Cham we still actually had some choices!
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BA are a week or 2 under 12 months in advance.
You can see how close you are to being able to book by looking where the greyed out dates are when using their booking pages.
Economy ticket with 1 checked bag Southampton to Salzburg was 120 quid when we booked, it's 380 quid as of today.
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@jma, that's a fair point.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Only a small thing, but worth booking airport parking straight away too if you're flying and need it. It'll probably double the week before you go.
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| Shipjack wrote: |
| Only a small thing, but worth booking airport parking straight away too if you're flying and need it. It'll probably double the week before you go. |
+1
And even if the price falls, at Heathrow you can cancel and rebook (or amend) to get the lower price.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I've noticed for my past couple of trips (all low season flying into Geneva) that Easyjet flights have been cheaper ~3 months prior to departure than the prices available ~6 months prior to departure. I've checked the same again this time and can see the Jan 23 flights I want are about 20% cheaper right now than they were when I first checked them in August.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@milzibkit, the pricing is dynamic ...
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DIY gives yiu flexibility. When France closed their boarders last year just before Xmas. I changes tunnel crossings, jumped in my van and went. Package holiday makers had no option but to watch the news hoping.
plus the amount of stuff we take. How can one consider travelling with just a single set of skis, that's just a dilemma I'm not mentally prepared to deal with
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You know it makes sense.
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Biggest advantage of booking last minute if not going high season is that you can go where the snow is decent, particularly early season where there can be quite varied conditions across the Alps.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| phil_w wrote: |
| I believe that the "hack" for car hire is to book cancellable stuff then look for cheaper deals later. I don't do it, but I think someone here said that is an approach. |
That’s what I do. Book with Europcar as soon as I book flights then check now and again. I saved over £500 on two trips this summer when prices dropped massively, but next winter’s prices seem to have only gone up and up.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I booked several months ago for a car in Geneva for this coming weekend. I did shop around, and booked at what was the lowest price with a reliable firm and have not found anything cheaper since. But it's certainly worth checking. And in fact this has reminded me I much get some cover with "insurance4carhire" before I fly.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've used insurance4carhire before - had a claim (had a puncture - badly damaged tyre with no means of continuing without calling out a rescue service, and waiting for hours in the dark when I should have been in Geneva airport picking up a passenger who'd arrived at 1030 pm!!). Insurance4carhire dealt with the claim well, and a lot cheaper than taking out the excess insurance with the car hire firm - who charged a lot for making me sit around for hours in the dark.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just booked the outbound train tickets for our trip in December: I got a 60-Day SBB 'Saver Day Pass' at CHF 52 (£47.32) single from Geneva to La Tzoumaz, 4 Vallées. Train Geneva>Riddes, Télépherique Riddes>Isérables / Postbus Isérables>La Tzoumaz. The cheapest, smallest rental car at GVA (for what is a pretty quiet, pre-season period) was £52/day, before any additional items and excluding fuel.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@pam w, yes they are excellent. I've had 3 claims with them, one I paid back as the car hire company backed down
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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One of the problems you will face is that when you visit websites and look at deals, it all gets recorded in the cookies. This means next time they "could" put the price up a bit, as you're obviously looking at a particular booking. Clear your cookies to avoid this.
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FAQ
