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Zell am see or Kaprun

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Looking for some advice please .
We usually Ski in Seefeld . But looking for a change of resort this year. We are having to use Crystal ski because of cancelled previous booked holiday .
Thinking of the Alpenpark chalets I’m either Zell am see or Kaprun .
We prefer self catering so very limited with Crystal.
We have the choice of one of the last 2 weeks in Jan or first week of March.
So looking for advice on resorts for skiers that have been 3 times previously, like to have other activities to hand like tobbaganing, iceskating etc .
And snow conditions for either dates we can go.
Thanks
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Lp1977, welcome to Snowheads!

Late January is the best time to be in Zell, as March can be slushy in a poor season though the first week is still pretty much peak season.

Conversely, Kaprun is better in March because you're less likely to be very cold and maybe suffering from strong winds and whiteout conditions on the glacier. The Maiskogel area is a decent warmup area, but limited.

The bus from one to the other is simple and included on the ski pass, so it becomes a question of where you are likely to spend most time. Both of the properties are in a good position.

Snow records are available at:

https://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Zell-am-See/history

https://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Kaprun/history

In particular, look at the rainfall days in March and especially at the bottom of the hill.

Zell has a basic swimming pool and a good ice rink. Kaprun has a top class spa, with prices to match.

For tobogganing, there's nothing in Kaprun as far as I'm aware, while the options out of Zell are limited. However the area has a couple of good options if you have transport or are prepared to take a bus or taxi. See https://www.zellamsee-kaprun.com/en/sport/winter/tobogganing
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I like both ...
For the less experienced the Maiskogel area offers a fantastic place to build your confidence.

I think @ousekjarr, has summed it up really.

Zell gets very crowded on the easier slopes but the steeper ones are empty.
The main ski school offers half day refresher courses which can be great with the right group.

Zell also has a station so you can get to Salzburg for a day of coffee and cake. for a day off.
or if you are feeling really adventurous perhaps take the train to Leogang and ski over to Salbach ... perhaps even get the new lift back up into the Zell area.
(it must be running by now).
In January .. if your really lucky in Zell the lake might freeze over .. I was a few years ago when it opened up on the Saturday while we had to wait for a late transfer ... It was magical. But it was the first time it had frozen for a few seasons.
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@Lp1977, if you are tempted to have a day out to Saalbach and Leogang via the link, with 3 weeks experience I'd advise you to download into the Glemmtal as the red run down is pretty difficult. If it wasn't a key link, it might be a black instead.

Also, from the bottom of the lift you need to catch a bus to the Schönleitenbahn as there's no uplift from there. On the way back you can ski down to the link.
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@ousekjarr thanks for your advice ,
You seem super knowledgeable. If you know of a better resort for us and the kids happy to have a look . Maybe that we go half board but eat out most days .

Do you think the dates we can go will be quieter weeks , the slope are pretty empty in Seefeld on those dates we try to avoid Feb which I believe is crazy.


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Mon 26-09-22 20:42; edited 1 time in total
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Can you ski right down to the bottom of the lift into the Glemmtal? Looks like the run 21 stops at the mid station on the piste map.
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@Lp1977, late January would be my preference, as the slopes will likely be at their maximum depth and in the best condition of the season, plus it is generally quieter than the other months. Some people need sun to ski because they want to sit in a deck chair for a couple of hours each day, so they go in March when the days are longer and likely to be sunnier. I prefer to ski, so the sun is useful for contrast but that's about it wink For me, March has a higher risk of slush, but that can also be OK in small doses.

Kids will cope just about anywhere, with the caveat that kids have more trouble in really cold weather as keeping gloves dry seems to be a perennial problem. For that reason, I'd only take primary age kids onto the glacier on a sunny day. For the rest of the time, Zell is a good choice as it is scenic, has accessible easy slopes, and most of the blue runs are high on the mountain. You can ski back into town on the blue 5 Nordabfahrt, though it gets busy and there will be experienced skiers coming down it quickly.

As you are limited by Crystal's voucher, I wouldn't be able to recommend anywhere else - they have places in Mayrhofen, but they're a bit of a trek from the lift and the ski area while being great for intermediates is a little limited until you are confident on most red runs.

@fizzer, you must be looking at a very old piste map - the lift out of the Glemmtal was opened in December 2019. The current piste map at https://www.zellamsee-kaprun.com/en/sport/winter/skimap makes this clear. You could always ski down from the midstation into the Glemmtal from the opening of the top section in 2016, but there was no way back up until the rest of the lift was completed. The piste was created as part of the initial lift install, but only really came into its own when the lift was completed.
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Also, a forum tip - you can @ someone by clicking on their name to the left of the post to autofill the name plus formatting into your new message text, which causes them to receive a notification that they've been mentioned in addition to any notification about replies to the topic.
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@ousekjarr, ...if they have switched on notifications
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Just jumping on this thread after seeing the comments about slush in Zell in March. We have a trip to Zell booked for last week in Feb. My is a nervous second week skier. Are we risking it with the conditions?
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@chrisbristol, any ski resort has a risk of slush at any time, as unseasonably warm weather can mean 8 hours of sunshine and temperatures of +10C or higher. That's unlikely in January (maybe 5% chance or less), fairly unlikely in February (~10% chance), happens occasionally in March (~20% chance), and is pretty much normal for April (60% chance). Rain is the other piste killer - slopes can lose 20cm or more of depth in a day of heavy rain, so at lower altitudes this is something to watch out for, and it also indicates of course that the temperatures are consistently above freezing.

The impact on a resort depends on multiple factors, including its height and the direction that the slopes face - Zell is not overly high, with the CityXpress and AreitXpress lifts under 800m, and Schmittenhöhe topping out at 2000m, so it starts at a small disadvantage to other resorts, and then the easier slopes mainly face east or south so as the sun strengthens into March they become more susceptible to softening up early in the day. On the plus side, it is scenic, doesn't get bone-achingly cold, has trees in most places to guide you in poor visibility, and has a good range of runs including some excellent blacks in the bowl. It also has the Kaprun glacier as backup and as a good day out to get the real high Alpine feel on a clear day - avoid it in falling snow or windy conditions, as 3000m gives you no trees, no cover, and no contrast as well as very cold temperatures with wind chill. Right now, the cameras are showing the Alpincenter with heavy snow falling - https://www.zellamsee-kaprun.com/en/service/live/webcams

That said, for Zell the last week in February is fairly secure, and I'm sure you'll have a great time. For a 2nd week skier, sugar and slush is preferable to boilerplate ice, but you're unlikely to get either. Friends of mine regularly visit in late March and really enjoy it, and it remains open into April most years though with limited or no cover on the bottom slopes.

If you want to look at the details, visit https://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Zell-am-See/history and look at two graphs - the Average Snowfall, and the Average Temperature. For each of them, hover on Week 4 of February and see what it shows - and then also look at the dots on the temperature graph, where you can see that in this week the extremes are +15C and -18C in town, and +9C to -20C at the top of the mountain. Look at all three levels - you will spend 90% of your time in the Top/Mid range, and will only go into the Bottom range by choice or at the end of the day, and there is always the option to download to avoid the lower slopes.
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That map only shows lifts.
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@lp1977, I don't have much more to add to this thread other than to say that I'd definitely go for Zell ... and would probably opt for the March option. The glacier at Kaprun is a great alternative if it's raining lower down (but then it will be snowing heavily with very limited visibility above the tree line at 3,000 meters). I don't want to sound mean but with only 3 weeks experience under your belt you might find the glacier a bit exposed and intimidating (even though the skiing is pretty extensive for what it is). We've been to Zell a couple of times in early March - granted, the lower slopes were getting very slushy after 11AM BUT everything above 1,500 meters was still lovely to ski. Zell will give you the all-round, magical experience it sounds you're looking for - picturesque town, lovely setting by the lake, stunning views of the surrounding peaks, the option to jump on a train to Salzburg etc.

@ousekjarr has done a great job summarising all the key points but ultimately you need to decide what's right for you and your family. Good luck and enjoy.
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fizzer wrote:
That map only shows lifts.


I think that is because the map is 'interactive' - all pistes are currently closed, so map shows no pistes ??

A useful review page of the area and its skiing -- https://www.theskigathering.com/ski-resorts/zell-am-see-skiing-review.php
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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fizzer wrote:
That map only shows lifts.


The Schmittenhöhe map at https://www.schmitten.at/en/Winter-on-the-mountain/Skiresort-Schmitten has the option to turn on the display of pistes, which shows X4.

Originally the red 21 piste was put in and terminated at the middle station, as the lower section of the lift hadn't been built. The ski route was added at the same time, and remains in use. The lower section was then added, but as it covers a very steep slope any run down there would be a challenging black - the run is shown from top right down to the centre of the image, with the ski route in the valley to the right.



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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
The Alpenparks building is directly opposite my apartment in Zell and is in a great location (the one in Kaprun is pretty good as well).

There are 2 lifts within a few minutes’ walk of the building. The Ebenbergbahn is a 2 man chair that is mainly used by the ski clubs for training but is used for the night skiing 3 evenings a week. The other is the City Express Gondola and it links into the main ski area via the Hirshkogel Express 4 man chair. You can ski back to the City Express easily, the run back down used to be a black but only had 2 short steep sections which now have now been by passed with blue routes. The other main lifts out of the town need a bus to get to but there would be little reason to go there as you can access any area by skiing from the City Express.
I would not recommend trying to ski down Red 21 to Viehoffen as a 3 week skier, We have skied and snowboarded as a family for as long as I can remember and don't bother with it anymore. Last time we did at one point I was helping 1 lady who was stuck, my wife was helping another person up while the kids were gathering lost equipment strewn across the slope. It really needs widening and reshaping if its to become a main access route in my opinion.

You are pretty much on the edge of the Zell pedestrian area in the Alpenparks and a very short walk from all the shops, bars and restaurants. If you are self catering there is 2 supermarkets a short walk from the Alpenparks building. The lake is about 3-4 mins walk away and can be very picturesque in the winter even when not frozen.

If you wanted to go for a quick swim I would recommend the pool in Zell, it is cheap, has a couple of diving boards and a slide if you have kids. If you want to spend longer somewhere the Tauren Spa on the way to Kaprun is the place to go. A cocktail from the outdoor swim up bar surrounded by snow and mountains is pretty special, there are several pools and slides, a good value restaurant and full Spa. The ice rink in Zell is being refurbished at the moment but should be open again very soon and is in the same building as the pool, about 10 mins walk from the Alpenparks.

I would not worry at all about snow conditions for either of your dates it will be fine and every run will be open.
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beano wrote:

I would not recommend trying to ski down Red 21 to Viehoffen as a 3 week skier,


I'm not
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fizzer wrote:
beano wrote:

I would not recommend trying to ski down Red 21 to Viehoffen as a 3 week skier,


I'm not


But the OP is, and that's who beano was replying to...
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@ousekjarr, Thanks very much for advice. I guess you take a chance most places unless you go to high altitude resorts. Anyway Zell sound like a great all round experience. Is it likely to be very busy that week - any Dutch or German holidays?
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@chrisbristol, no German holidays in the week of 25Feb-4Mar, but it looks like some of the Dutch, Belgians, Swedes, Czechs and Slovakians are on holiday - see the thread at https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=156939 . Still should be OK, the only really busy times are New Year, the middle two weeks of February, and whenever Fasching falls, which this season is on the 18-25th Feb when Bavaria and a couple of other German regions are on holiday. Even then, there are degrees of busy - Zell doesn't tend to attract as many day trippers as some other resorts, so the capacity of the hill is usually higher than the capacity of the town plus the day trippers.
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On the subject of slush... We ski Zell in early / mid March most years (global pandemics permitting). Above the mid station of the gondola on the Schmitten side (top of arietxpress lift / top of city express lift it hasn't been particularly slushy, maybe just a bit soft at the very bottom of that section later on in the day. On the Sonnkogel side stay above the top of Sonnenalmbahn and it's generally okay too they're the best reds on the mountain IMHO, and usually quiet, so worth a visit. The valley runs can be okay early in the day if conditions favour, they've been great, but also can be a total slush fest, so best to play it by ear. The lowest red under the sonnenalmbahn lift is generally the worst as it's low and gets sun most of the day, as does red 4 on the Schmitten side. The blacks probably hold up better due to their aspect. At the end of the day most people I think downlift from mid station (I'm not most people Wink. Generally though the conditions and pisteing have been excellent, and we've been blessed with superb weather most years.
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fizzer wrote:
beano wrote:

I would not recommend trying to ski down Red 21 to Viehoffen as a 3 week skier,


I'm not


Sorry for any offence caused
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Tubaski wrote:
On the subject of slush... We ski Zell in early / mid March most years (global pandemics permitting). Above the mid station of the gondola on the Schmitten side (top of arietxpress lift / top of city express lift it hasn't been particularly slushy, maybe just a bit soft at the very bottom of that section later on in the day. On the Sonnkogel side stay above the top of Sonnenalmbahn and it's generally okay too they're the best reds on the mountain IMHO, and usually quiet, so worth a visit. The valley runs can be okay early in the day if conditions favour, they've been great, but also can be a total slush fest, so best to play it by ear. The lowest red under the sonnenalmbahn lift is generally the worst as it's low and gets sun most of the day, as does red 4 on the Schmitten side. The blacks probably hold up better due to their aspect. At the end of the day most people I think downlift from mid station (I'm not most people Wink. Generally though the conditions and pisteing have been excellent, and we've been blessed with superb weather most years.


I think this is very important for Zell (and many other ski areas also) as the condition and crowds of/on the pistes change through the day and catching them at the right time is very important, a typical day for us in Zell would be

Earlyish start, take Ebenbergbahn up and ski down to City Express, this by passes a bit of the queue at the city express but the run down can be very firm in the morning as its shaded and can be injected for races. Take city express, hirshkogel, etc to the top of the Schmittenhohe and spend a while lapping the runs off the backside round the Kettingbahn lift catching these slopes as they generally soften first from overnight freeze, we would then make our way to the Sonnkogel area to catch these runs in the best condition, We would then spend the afternoon lapping round blacks 13 and 14 down to the Trassexpress as they are usually quiet and in best condition in the afternoon. Then finish with a blast down to the City Express and walk into town for some Apres drinks.


Disclaimer : This is only my view gained from many, many weeks skiing in Zell and could be very differnt subject to weather conditions on any given day!
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Mrs MA and I skied the main bit of Seefeld for the first time in April on a day trip by train from Innsbruck. We'd previously done an hour (using our Tirol Snow Cards) at the tiny but entertaining area along the road from Seefeld, on the way back to Innsbruck Airport last January.

We really enjoyed the main ski area - the scenery is fantastic and there's some nice cruising runs. However, the area is very small for a week's skiing and we found it very busy in places, with some quite long lift queues.

In comparison, I think you'd love the scale and variety of Kaprun and/or Zell am See
Lp1977.
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Zell is a lovely town and the skiing is pretty good but I'd say that it is best suited to Intermediate/Advanced skiers. All the longest/best runs are reds and blacks with only a handful of decent blues, which are often busy as a result. Black 14 is a proper challenge on the lower half and the other blacks are quite steep too. The red down to the ZellExpress lift is awesome, a proper gun-barrel which can be done at speed if it's quiet!

Saalbach, Leogang and Maria Alm are much better if you are looking for a day on blues and reds....

Zell's on slope apres is very good though. Have a laugh at Schnapps Hans for 30 mins or so before heading to the Breiteckalm for a couple in the last of the sunshine before heading to the Ebenbergalm for dinner.... I think they are closing the slopes between 7-9PM for piste bashing, so Helmut tends to kick people out unless night skiing is on.
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@Klamm Franzer, I echo your comments about Zell for beginners.

Wasn’t the Ebenbergalm closed for most, if not all, of last season?
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Last season I skied over from Saalbach to Zell a few times in early April, and the conditions were generally pretty good. I remember enjoying the run down to the base station of the City Xpress.
I agree with the comments about the red run 21 back to the mid-station of the Zell am See Xpress. It’s narrow, sometimes busy, and not very pleasant. Unless you’re in the mood, it may be better to take the gondola down from the top of the Schmittenhohe.
In late April I was up on the glacier at Kaprun for several days, which were greatly enhanced by the ski manufacturers lending out new skis for testing. However the weather and conditions were very mixed. When it closes in up there, it’s pretty horrible.
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@Austrian Seagull, I didn't make it last season but it looks to have a new, younger Wirt. Maybe it is moving upmarket?! There is an encouraging picture of Gunter cooking Ripperls on their Facebook page though Madeye-Smiley
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@ousekjarr, thanks thats v useful
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Interesting to hear the comments about Zell being best suited to intermediates/advanced. One of reasons we chose it was because it got a very good beginner rating on Crystal/Iglu. My wife will be in ski school all week so hopefully it won't be a big issue.
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@chrisbristol, we learned there, no problem. The first proper blue on the progression after the beginner slopes is spacious, with some gentle terrain and modern lift, and there are a range of runs through blues gentle reds, trickier reds, gentle blacks, steep blacks. I think it's a good resort to learn or progress. It may not have miles of gentle greens like some french mega resorts, but your wife will be fine Smile
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@chrisbristol, I have groups of friends, who have been regular visitors to Saalbach (which of course is linked to Zell and shares the same lift pass). For a change they have based themselves in Zell.
The feedback from one group was that the ski area was very scenic (which it undoubtedly is), but somewhat limited. They said that they seemed to find themselves continually on very easy blues or challenging blacks.
Generally these groups were disappointed, but only in comparison to the huge and varied area of the Ski Circus. They spent several days of their holidays in Zell getting taxis to Saalbach.
My own feelings (not from the perspective of a beginner or early intermediate, I hasten to add) is that Zell has a larger and more interesting ski area than I had imagined. I always enjoy my excursions over there and find it a worthwhile addition to the options provided by the Ski Circus.
It’s certainly worth experiencing at least once in winter - and even more so in summer. Larger, higher, and more “ski-convenient” resorts are however beckoning in the future.
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chrisbristol wrote:
Interesting to hear the comments about Zell being best suited to intermediates/advanced. One of reasons we chose it was because it got a very good beginner rating on Crystal/Iglu. My wife will be in ski school all week so hopefully it won't be a big issue.


I am sure you will be fine, the main beginner area is very wide and has a nice consistant gradient and is serviced by a quick heated 8 seater chair so could not be better for a beginner. Its the next stage of progression where Zell is weakest as there are only 2-3 blues for the next stage of learning but the instructers are generally very good at managing the progression through these slopes.
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tatmanstours wrote:
@chrisbristol, I have groups of friends, who have been regular visitors to Saalbach (which of course is linked to Zell and shares the same lift pass). For a change they have based themselves in Zell.
The feedback from one group was that the ski area was very scenic (which it undoubtedly is), but somewhat limited. They said that they seemed to find themselves continually on very easy blues or challenging blacks.
Generally these groups were disappointed, but only in comparison to the huge and varied area of the Ski Circus. They spent several days of their holidays in Zell getting taxis to Saalbach.
My own feelings (not from the perspective of a beginner or early intermediate, I hasten to add) is that Zell has a larger and more interesting ski area than I had imagined. I always enjoy my excursions over there and find it a worthwhile addition to the options provided by the Ski Circus.
It’s certainly worth experiencing at least once in winter - and even more so in summer. Larger, higher, and more “ski-convenient” resorts are however beckoning in the future.


Its interesting to hear he view of a Saalbach regular on Zell, we are based in Zell but ski both and love the whole area for different reasons, I would say out of 10 days we would spend 5 in Zell for convienience and the black runs, 3 in Saalbach for the mileage you can cover and the apres and 2 on the Kitzs for the high alpine feeling and the Ski routes/off piste but we are lucky that we have our car and can travel around.

I can see where your friends are coming from on the Schmittenhohe side as its very much gentle blue or tough black but I have always felt that the reds on the Sonkogel side very much has the feel of Saalbach.
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@beano, yes, they certainly all have something to offer, and a different experience from each other, which has to be positive.
I have no reason to doubt what you say about the mix of runs (and still don’t know the Zell area well enough to form my own unequivocal view).
Regarding the “convenience” aspect I’m spoiled by having to only walk across the road to the Kohlmaisbahn, which then gives me immediate access to 270km of piste, plus Zell if I choose to head in that direction. I seldom drive, or even walk further than the lift station opposite. I can see that it’s all about different perspectives, which will obviously be influenced by where you’re located, and where you begin and end your day’s skiing.
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@Tubaski, @tatmanstours, Thanks for the advice, that's very reassuring. Its important that this trip is a good all round experience and it sounds like Zell will tick most boxes.
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