Train help needed please

A snowHead

Ive got the pleasure of sorting out a trip during feb half term 2023. We are yet to nail down exact property but have it down to 3 in morzine, Les arc or chatel most likely with serre chevalier and Les orres outside options.

We used to drive most years but I’m not sure I can face it after a couple of years off so we are now split into
A) one group who’d rather bite the bullet and pay the extortionate costs for flights to Geneva or Lyon and onward private transfers which will take many hours as well as many pounds, and
B) another group who like the idea of going by train.

Clearly Eurostar don’t seem to run the trains to bourg and moutieres that they used to do and we aren’t interested in their packages.

So the main question is , is there anyway to get access to winter tgv timetables even if you can’t book them until November.

Also would I just be better booking Eurotunnel to Paris now then getting a train agent to book any second leg from Paris to the slopes so I don’t miss it when the tickets are released. Any suggestions welcome.

Thanks, Dave.

A snowHead

check the Eurostar in to Lille as well, a connection train maybe more suitable/cheaper

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I have started considering that but it usually adds a couple of hours to the journey time and often needs an extra connection although it would avoid the mad home alone have we got all the children trip across Paris.

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Hmmm, we drive every year. I can see where you're coming from but I still prefer to do that rather than absorb the extra costs associated with flying or train.

However, if I'm considering anything to do with train travel in Europe, the man in Seat 61 is my first point of call: www.seat61.com

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Would also start with the man in seat 61.

We did the train back from Italy in a day in March, using turin to paris tgv via chambery, and then eurostar. We were meant to be going out by train in Feb but got cold feet over the covid regs in France!

We booked the eurostar early, then booked the tgv when the dates became available (3 months before i think?). Pays to get the earliest eurostar you can bear, then there is plenty of flexibility for the onward journey. The hop across in Paris is dead easy, RER 2 stops - though i admit we didn't have kids to herd. Laughing

The tgv is great, first class isn't much more expensive than cattle and is super comfy. I found that with the train you kind of have to step back and accept it's going to be slow, and enjoy it as part of the holiday.

Maybe pick the resort which had the most regular and convenient trains the season just gone, I'd assume the timetable won't change that much.

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I think at this stage you can only plan by looking at last winter's timetables as an indicative idea. There is usually a thread on here about when timetables are released or Man in Seat 61 will tell you. Then they never are at the time announced but a few days/weeks later.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Of the resorts you mention, only Les Arcs (station in Bourg then funicular up) and Serre Chevalier (station in Briancon) are directly reachable by train. Otherwise you would still need to organise a transport, or at least coordinate with times of public buses (e.g. Cluses to Morzine).

If you want to use the train, it might be easiest to start with information about which resorts work easily that way. These people produce maps for the purpose: http://www.2thealps.com/skiing-by-train-maps_copy.htm

After all it is free

Have a look here too: https://www.snowcarbon.co.uk/ski-resorts/morzine - obviously all last winter's schedules, but I don't think they tend to change all that much. I have a couple of Eurostars booked for next year's trips, but I'm doing Friday night Eurostar then Saturday morning TGV, so am not too sensitive to exact timings.

@Davemc37, have you considered Val Cenis? as the railway route TGV through to italy is via that valley with main station at Modane along with relatively easy journey to ski village from this station.

Possibly less affected with uk school holiday traffic too, along with good cost and reached from a number of airport like Lyon.

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My brother once got the train from London to Paris and then Paris to Oulx to join up with us on our ski holiday. He said it was all very easy, there was a connecting bus waiting in Oulx and the change of train in Paris really wasn't that difficult.

From Oulx you could go to Sauze d'Oulx or Cesena Torinese for the Via Lattea, and Bardonecchia is close too.

This was a few years ago, but I imagine there are still plenty of trains running from Paris to Milan stopping at Oulx. And if the train also stops at Modane on the other side of the tunnel, then this opens a number of other resorts (as ski3 suggests above).

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We have done the train to oulx a few times and stayed in montgenevre. You can also access serre chevalier sauze and sestriere from oulx. Snow carbon is a good resource for approximate times. However we have found it works best to stop at gare de Lyon in an Accor hotel on the outward journey. Then there is a 7amish train to oulx which gets you to the resort at lunchtime and if you go to Montgenevre the first afternoons skiing is free if you buy a six day lift pass starting on Sunday. Coming back you can easily do the journey in a day and even stop in Paris for a couple of hours sightseeing.

However if you are going to serre chevalier you could also go by sleeper from Paris to briancon.

Les arcs is also easily accessible by train.

The only drawback of going by train is getting hold of the tickets. I buy each stage as soon as it comes out ie outward eurostar then return eurostar followed by the tgv which comes out later.

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This year, I noticed there was a train service from the train station at Charles de Gaulle airport to Bourg St Maurice that takes about 4 1/2 hours. Seemed good value when I was looking at the tickets last year, but don't know that much more about it.

You can book Heathrow to Paris with BA for about £200 return at the moment for Feb. 11th to 18th in 2023, then get the train down to BSM and then, all accounted for, it's not that much longer than the 3 hour transfer from Geneva.

Don't know, but there's some interesting ways down to the Alps if you're looking for alternatives to the usual Geneva/Lyon plus transfers scenario.

Have Eurostar made any announcement on whether they will or definitely will not run the standard skitrain service next winter? The charter operation from CDA doesn't work for me, so I'd love to see Eurostar return to 'normal service'.

You know it makes sense.

I have found that the local Altibus services from Moutiers and BSM up to most of the 3v and EK resorts are frequent and cheap

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@YellowAndBlue, i took that morning train (to moutiers anyway) just before Christmas, it was a pleasant journey, though at the time there was no refreshments being sold on board due to covid restrictions.

from memory it was about 80euros, but that was booking last minute as i had to change my plans due to restrictions on brits coming in that weekend

then jumped on an altibus up to les menuires, for about 30euros

it also stopped at marne le valle (disney), lyon airport, grenoble and then albertville before heading to moutier/bourg etc

i believe it actually starts at Lille, so may be an option to avoid paris via eurostar

A snowHead

@Davemc37, a search of S-heads will discover that we've used the train for the past 'a lot' of years , 18, 20 maybe? as well as various flights (+ connections), drives and others means of getting to Les Arcs, as we normally go out 2 or three time per year. Train still is our favourite and goto.

We use Rail Canterbury as our aggregator, A small independent (we were put onto them by Snowheads whaaay back) , they are pretty damn good at finding the best options for your particular circumstances.
And although there is a % fee for their services (listed on your invoice) , I've have genuinely found that it pays for itself, both in the time and effort saved, as well as the actual prices they are able to source being better than I can generally get DIY.

I'd give them a call / email and seen what they are able to tell you (starting to sound like an advert... no, there is no kickback or personal benefit for this advocacy. Just like them to be round a bit longer!)

http://www.rail-canterbury.co.uk/

HTH

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@terrygasson, was that 80 euros for a return? It appears more like 6.5 hours from Paris to Moutiers or BSM, not the 4.5 hours I had thought. However, I don't think that would put me off if it was a reliable and comfortable journey with little chance of delays.

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@YellowAndBlue, it was approx 80euros single, as mentioned earlier i booked it 2 days beforehand when brits had to get into france on the friday before christmas, i was originally flying in on the saturday morning!!

from memory it was about 4.5 to 5 hours, are you looking at current timetables for the 6.5 hour journey?

as i do not think it is the same timetable as the winter one, as it appears you have to change trains a couple of times, whereas the one i was on from Paris CDG was direct.

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@sugarmoma666, Do you not have to change in, at least, Chambery?

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

@terrygasson, @YellowAndBlue,
The train you mention is the ouigo service from Paris to the Alps. There is one a day during the majority of the ski season, last year it left Paris CdG at 9.40 am so would mean a very early flight or an overnight stop in Paris.
Ouigo is a low cost high speed train service and the price starts at 10 euros each way but quickly ramps up for the busy weeks.
They don't have a buffet car but you can take your own food and drink on them.

Details of the ski train one here https://www.ouigo.com/content/le-ski-avec-ouigo

You could even drive to Paris CdG in the early hours and catch the Ouigo service

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

@YellowAndBlue, you can get the Eurostar cheaper than that.

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

@skichampcouk, cheers, just looked at the link and you are right that is the one I was on. I didn't realise that there was no on board service as standard, just thought it was covid related. fortunately, there was a buffet breakfast at the hotel I was staying in near CDG the previous night, and I just told the waiter that I was taking a plate of food (croissants/fruit/yoghurts etc) back up to my room, after my eggs and bacon Toofy Grin

, which I then took with me on the train.

it does only start at CDG, not lille as i had thought Puzzled

, though if you still want to go by train but avoiding transiting/overnighting in paris.
you can get an earlier train from lille to CDG in the morning, so you could still do the eurostar to lille on the friday evening and overnight by the station then catch the service to meet up with the train to the alps in the morning, as it is just a case of changing platforms.

if i was going to do a solo trip again to the alps, i would probably look at this option.

snow reports

@sugarmoma666, you're probably right. I suppose I was making the suggestion as an alternative to half-term Geneva/Lyon flights and private transfers (which the OP has calculated to be excessive). So, a £200 return flight into Paris plus a return TGV for, say, £150 return makes total £350 pp return at half-term. And 4.5 hours from Paris isn't that different to 3 hours from Geneva to Moutiers or BSM.

Anyway, just got me thinking. Would be strange to fly to Paris for a ski holiday, but then it's well-connected by train to numerous ski resorts so why not? A direct train connection at CDG would be easy and convenient, shame it seems there's only one train per day.

@YellowAndBlue, as it is a lazy sunday morning, and i am a sad git, i have been looking at the options on the dates you were looking at.

currently on eurostar london-lille, you can get get a friday afternoon out and sunday morning adult return for £90. assuming you need it, then a family room (2adults 2 kids) at the novotel by the station for average of £80 per night, there are also cheaper options on booking.com.

i am assuming that the return train from the tarentaise is a saturday afternoon/evening service, so would look at staying at lille on the saturday evening then the sunday morning eurostar to london.

obviously, the bonus to trains compared to flying is you get free luggage allowance per person for ski bag etc

it is just a shame that the winter train timetables are not available to research/book at present, so you cannot confirm the final cost!!!

You know it makes sense.

@terrygasson, that's interesting. I never realised it was such good value on the Eurostar. It will make me look at all these options in the future.

As above, my suggestion to the OP was just an alternative for flying into Geneva/Lyon at half-term where the prices seem to be excessive. The idea of a direct train connection at Paris CDG just seems interesting, and it would also mean you could avoid the road traffic if using private transfers from either Geneva or Lyon.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Just as an exercise, if you were going this summer:

16/07/22
London St Pancras to Paris Nord 08.01-11.17
Take RER to Paris Lyon and then:
Paris Lyon to Chambery 12.46-15.39
Chambery to Bourg St Maurice 16.31-18.23

Including the hour's time change, 9 1/2 hours travel (admittedly plus the getting to/from St Pancras & Bourg)

23/07/22
Bourg St Maurice to Chambery 10.38-12.28
Chambery to Lyon 12.34-14.10
Lyon to Paris Lyon 15.04-17.01
Paris Nord to London St Pancras 19.13-20.30

11 hours travel.

1st class £258 2nd class £220

As per @terrygasson, staying in the Mecure above Gare de Lyon allows for Friday evening travel and an evening meal in Paree, with an early start on the Saturday morning having raided the breakfast room - we've done this a couple of times and is a great way to start a holiday.

A snowHead

@terrygasson, this season the direct trains from Paris to the Tarentaise seemed to be morning departures in both directions.

A snowHead

Possibly of interest to some folk on this thread:

https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=160015&highlight=

Personally, I'd see flying to Paris rather than taking the Eurostar as nullifying one of the key reasons for traveling by train, which is the reduced environmental impact.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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@sugarmoma666,

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@terrygasson, The Ouigo train does indeed return back the same day, leaving Bourg Saint Maurice at around 15:50 each day last season.
I think the trains @sugarmoma666, mentions are the normal direct winter TGV services from Paris to Bourg Saint Maurice.
The train services to the Alps outside of winter are less frequent, usually meaning at least 1 change of train. We find it a lot easier to travel to the Alps from the South of France in winter than in summer.
Normally the Ouigo services can be booked up to 6 months in advance whereas the normal TGV service are usually available to book 3 months in advance. However I'm not sure that will apply to the Ouigo service to the Alps. It was a new service last season that allowed booking from 6th October, so hopefully it continues this year and can be booked 6 months in advance as per the majority of the other Ouigo services.

@Davemc37, I did a quick search for winter timetables to Bourg Saint Maurice and found this - https://www.fiches-horaires.net/gare/Bourg-Saint-Maurice
If you look towards the bottom of the page I think it shows the times of the long distance trains from Bourg Saint Maurice to Paris for winter 2021/22. Most services appear to be at the weekend but you need to be used to the French timetables to be able to understand it.

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@skichampcouk, thanks for the info

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@Davemc37, every year around 1st or 2nd week of September FR railways launch a special Thalys Snow offer (Sat-Sat product). Bought in advance return ticket from Paris to BSM is circa EUR 100-120 (train stops in other main alpine places too). You can start checking beginning on September for advance information and try buying tickets when they go on sale. Bought that way a couple of times - brilliant way to travel to BSM and Moutiers.

Help!!

Train help needed please

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