Poster: A snowHead
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Hi guys,
I'm currently trying to decide where to book a trip for the first week of April 23. I have narrowed it down to: Val D'isere, Tignes or Les Arcs - based on them being snow-sure and being large linked resorts with varied terrane.
The group consists of 3 couples and a one year old. A couple of us are well seasoned skiers comfortable on any terrane, and the rest are absolute beginners, so its important there is some good beginners stuff in the mix.
We also ideally want a bit of atmosphere in the village, and a more alpine village feel (I know this wont be the case with some of these resorts) but willing to compromise. I left Val T off the list as I've heard the town is a monstrosity?
My last two trips have been to Chamonix and Verbier so I'm keen to ditch the busses for something better linked. I have skied the Les Arcs area before but was based in Peisey-Vallandry, and while the skiing was great I found the village a bit dead.
Any thoughts?
Cheers in advance!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Angusbutterfield,
There is no "centre" to Les Arcs it is a number of satellite hamlets varying in height above sea level. You would have to be above 1800 metres for easier access to the better ski slopes. The link to La Plagne is tenuous and at low level.
Tignes Lac and Val Claret are at 2100 metres asl and convenient for the skiing. It's a lot nicer than Val T.
The best on your list for "village" atmosphere together with the linked skiing is Val d'isere. The only bussing is between differnt parts of Val. The buses are very frequent and free to everyone to use. The best beginner slopes are up on Solaise or Bellevarde and they can get the lifts back down to village level. I assume the beginners will take lessons with one of the many ski schools. Val has over 10 different ski schools many have British instructors or fluent English speakers.
PS I am a little bised. I have skied in more than 25 different resorts in Europe I now only go to Val d'isere.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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welshflyer wrote: |
@Angusbutterfield,
Tignes Lac and Val Claret are at 2100 metres asl and convenient for the skiing. It's a lot nicer than Val T. |
Do you think Tignes is nicer than Val T? It's been around 10 years since I went to Val T, but I wouldn't have said it's any worse than Tignes.
You're not getting an alpine village feel in any of the resorts except Val D, so i'd be more concerned about the skiing, especially as alpine village feel generally means lower, and in April, you're after a bit more height.
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swskier wrote: |
welshflyer wrote: |
@Angusbutterfield,
Tignes Lac and Val Claret are at 2100 metres asl and convenient for the skiing. It's a lot nicer than Val T. |
Do you think Tignes is nicer than Val T? It's been around 10 years since I went to Val T, but I wouldn't have said it's any worse than Tignes.
You're not getting an alpine village feel in any of the resorts except Val D, so i'd be more concerned about the skiing, especially as alpine village feel generally means lower, and in April, you're after a bit more height. |
What about beginner stuff in Val D? It's got the height and the village feel, was just a bit concerned that there are no easy runs down to village for the beginners.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Angusbutterfield,
In Val d'isere the runs down to the village are NOT easy. That is why I said that beginners can come DOWN on the lifts back to the town. The main Solaise lift is a bubble lift as is the lift down from the upper slopes in the La Daille/Bellevarde sectors.
Beginners should go with a ski school and the ski instructor will tell the beginners when they will need a ski pass to use the lifts to reach the easier slopes up on the mountain. The nursery slope in the town is only about 400 metres long where, I assume, they will start on the free to use Village chairlift.
If you go on to the official Val d'isere website you can see some of the slopes on the webcams, they now have real snow on them even in the town.
https://www.valdisere.com/
The website also has a comprehensive lift of ski schools, restaurants etc....
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@Angusbutterfield,
Quote: |
The group consists of 3 couples and a one year old. A couple of us are well seasoned skiers comfortable on any terrane, and the rest are absolute beginners, so its important there is some good beginners stuff in the mix.
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Is that 2 people are experienced skiers? Or 2 couples?
What's going to happen with the 1 year old?
What sort of accommodation are you thinking of?
Do you mind a 10 minute walk to the lifts, or would you prefer to (probably) pay a bit more to be less than 5 minutes walk from a decent lift?
What sort of things would you probably do in a village with a bit of atmosphere?
Are you likely to give priority to the needs of the inexperienced skiers and baby, or the experineced skiers?
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Quote: |
was just a bit concerned that there are no easy runs down to village for the beginners.
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There absolutely aren't. But that's true of loads of ski resorts round the world. It's what lifts are for, as @welshflyer says. Your complete beginners will need to be in ski school all week if they are to make reasonable progress, so the proximity of accommodation to the ski school meeting place will be the most important factor (apart from what happens to the baby.....).
It's not an ideal week, by a long way, because it's Easter school holidays. No chance of going a bit earlier?
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Like @welshflyer, I've been to lots of European resorts, including 3 trips to Val d'Isere and to be honest probably will not go back. As said earlier it is not a very convenient resort and relies a lot on busses to get about. As you noted it is not really possible for beginners to ski back to the resort. They will have to get the lift back down.
I much prefer Tignes, I like the atmosphere of the village and there is more to do after skiing than Val d’Isere: the sports centre, climbing wall, swimming pool, diving under the lake in Le Lac for example. However, atmosphere is a very personal thing and I’m not sure what you mean by it. To me it’s about being in a skiing community. A community of people who are there to ski, to others it about being in a drinking community and others still who only want to potter about from morning coffee to long lunch to afternoon tea to apres ski drinks to dinner etc. and just be in the mountains
Ps They are all great resorts and you'll have a good time in any.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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To be honest it's April you should be thinking as high as possible and forgetting about alpine cutesyness etc. Even then it can be tough on beginners as ( on sunny days) snow softens up considerably by mid morning and can turn into downhill poling slog on lesser gradients or knee twisting slop in the afternoon.
I'd move forward to March if at all possible.
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Personally, I'd put Val Thorens back on the list, right at the top. I suspect whoever called it a monstrosity hasn't been there in the last 10 years because it's changed a lot. The new Club Med, several new high-end hotels and the new sports centre are all in a sympathetic mountain style.
April's the perfect time to be in VT, it's when the altitude really makes it come into its own. Firm in the mornings, sunny for lunch and the afternoon, party atmosphere in certain areas if that's what you want but not everywhere.
More importantly, it's all ski-in/out and the beginners' area is far better than any of the other resorts. A large, dedicated space with easy magic carpet lifts and magic carpets back to the resort centre too so you can meet whoever's looking after the baby for lunch if you want. It's also very easy to progress from the beginners' area and get around the wider ski area.
Val d'Isere is a disaster for beginners, Tignes not much better and the Paradiski is good for intermediates but very disjointed with the villages so spread out so not easy to get around at all for beginners.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I find it extraordinary that people claim Val d'Isere has a "cutesy village" feel about it. But it does have very good, high altitude, skiing and some excellent ski schools (as does Tignes). I'm an experienced skier and quite competent on a good day but whilst I haven't skied that much in Val d'Isere usually downloaded on the lift, and enjoy watching people on Le Face who definitely should have done the same. The bottom section of the "green" alternative to La Daille is littered with people struggling and falling over (especially late season) and then you have to get a bus.
If you can't move your holiday forward, and provided you can find accommodation VERY near to the meeting point for one of the excellent ski schools and your beginners aren't the ridiculously macho variety who won't download in a lift, Val d'Isere will be fine.
Tignes is fine too - and Val Claret would probably be my choice. It's a bit less up itself. It has the advantage of the glacier (with some easy skiing provided they can cope with T bars) and a swift, warm, trip up and down in the funicular. And the views from up there are spectacular.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Raceplate wrote: |
Personally, I'd put Val Thorens back on the list, right at the top. I suspect whoever called it a monstrosity hasn't been there in the last 10 years because it's changed a lot. The new Club Med, several new high-end hotels and the new sports centre are all in a sympathetic mountain style.
April's the perfect time to be in VT, it's when the altitude really makes it come into its own. Firm in the mornings, sunny for lunch and the afternoon, party atmosphere in certain areas if that's what you want but not everywhere.
More importantly, it's all ski-in/out and the beginners' area is far better than any of the other resorts. A large, dedicated space with easy magic carpet lifts and magic carpets back to the resort centre too so you can meet whoever's looking after the baby for lunch if you want. It's also very easy to progress from the beginners' area and get around the wider ski area.
Val d'Isere is a disaster for beginners, Tignes not much better and the Paradiski is good for intermediates but very disjointed with the villages so spread out so not easy to get around at all for beginners. |
Thank you! I'll definitely have a look into Val Thorens then.
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pam w wrote: |
I find it extraordinary that people claim Val d'Isere has a "cutesy village" feel about it. But it does have very good, high altitude, skiing and some excellent ski schools (as does Tignes). I'm an experienced skier and quite competent on a good day but whilst I haven't skied that much in Val d'Isere usually downloaded on the lift, and enjoy watching people on Le Face who definitely should have done the same. The bottom section of the "green" alternative to La Daille is littered with people struggling and falling over (especially late season) and then you have to get a bus.
If you can't move your holiday forward, and provided you can find accommodation VERY near to the meeting point for one of the excellent ski schools and your beginners aren't the ridiculously macho variety who won't download in a lift, Val d'Isere will be fine.
Tignes is fine too - and Val Claret would probably be my choice. It's a bit less up itself. It has the advantage of the glacier (with some easy skiing provided they can cope with T bars) and a swift, warm, trip up and down in the funicular. And the views from up there are spectacular. |
Thank you for the advice! It will probably be a toss up between these two based on what accommodation we can find.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Angusbutterfield,
Are you looking to go on a UK tour operator package (and if so, with child care?) or DIY?
What sort of accommodation are you looking for:- Hotel, chalet-hotel, chalet, self-catering? And on what board basis?
And the biggie - what is your budget?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Raceplate wrote: |
Personally, I'd put Val Thorens back on the list, right at the top. I suspect whoever called it a monstrosity hasn't been there in the last 10 years because it's changed a lot. The new Club Med, several new high-end hotels and the new sports centre are all in a sympathetic mountain style.
April's the perfect time to be in VT, it's when the altitude really makes it come into its own. Firm in the mornings, sunny for lunch and the afternoon, party atmosphere in certain areas if that's what you want but not everywhere.
More importantly, it's all ski-in/out and the beginners' area is far better than any of the other resorts. A large, dedicated space with easy magic carpet lifts and magic carpets back to the resort centre too so you can meet whoever's looking after the baby for lunch if you want. It's also very easy to progress from the beginners' area and get around the wider ski area.
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+1 completely agree with all
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Angusbutterfield, Anybody calling Val D'Isere a disaster for beginners hasn't been for 10 years. There is now a fabulous beginners area at 2600m up the Solaise with a very reasonably priced coffee shop with a cartoon theatre to keep the kids occupied. It's only a 6 min ride up and down in a gondola.
For those that are skiing Tignes would be marginally better as the resort runs will be less slushy in the afternoon sun.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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All resorts have their pluses and minuses. Val Thorens can be great but when the wind gets up you may have severely limited options. Personally I don't worry too much about the look of the resort and have happily skied Flaine, Avoriaz, Tignes, Isola 2000 and other monstrosities and provided the snow is good I'm happy. It's hard to imagine anyone not enjoying any of the three resorts you mention.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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PeakyB wrote: |
@Angusbutterfield,
Quote: |
The group consists of 3 couples and a one year old. A couple of us are well seasoned skiers comfortable on any terrane, and the rest are absolute beginners, so its important there is some good beginners stuff in the mix.
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Is that 2 people are experienced skiers? Or 2 couples?
What's going to happen with the 1 year old?
What sort of accommodation are you thinking of?
Do you mind a 10 minute walk to the lifts, or would you prefer to (probably) pay a bit more to be less than 5 minutes walk from a decent lift?
What sort of things would you probably do in a village with a bit of atmosphere?
Are you likely to give priority to the needs of the inexperienced skiers and baby, or the experineced skiers? |
These are good questions, that remain unanswered.
You are considering two ski areas effectively, you may aswell add the 3V to the mix.
All avoid the bus aspect and will be "well linked".
The elephant in the room here is what you by "atmosphere in the village"?
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chocksaway wrote: |
@Angusbutterfield, Anybody calling Val D'Isere a disaster for beginners hasn't been for 10 years. There is now a fabulous beginners area at 2600m up the Solaise with a very reasonably priced coffee shop with a cartoon theatre to keep the kids occupied. It's only a 6 min ride up and down in a gondola. |
Fair enough, I've looked it up. I last went 8 years ago in 2014 and it got upgraded in 2016, 6 years ago. Looks good for kids.
Doesn't change the topography of the resort though and that's the real problem with Val d'Isere for adult beginners; its "easy" runs are seriously under graded and one way or another, you'll almost certainly be on a bus and a walk at some point in the day which the OP doesn't want.
Where do you go after you leave the new area? The next progression is Madeleine that is marked green on the map but would be dark blue in any other resort and almost all runs back to resort are difficult for intermediates, let alone people on their first week. If you're then limited to only skiing in the Solaise area, you'll be lucky if your accommodation is in walking distance of the gondola because most of Val D isn't, so you're on a bus. It's just a lot of hassle that's exactly the kind of reason why some people do one week's skiing and never come back. My own adult niece went to Tignes for her second week (and Tignes would be a better choice than Val D) - she didn't enjoy it and doesn't want to go skiing again.
Val Thorens is a much better choice for a beginner-oriented mixed ability group, it's so much easier for skiers and pedestrians to meet up and get around. My only caveat would be to not stay in the top Balcons area which would be awkward for beginners. Anywhere in the bottom two thirds of the resort would be good.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Knowing the area very well it can only be Tignes that late in the season . Arc 2000/1950 would just about work if it’s still open , is it ?
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But Val T is a good call if you like Dutch people , It might be Dutch week .
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Rob Mackley wrote: |
But Val T is a good call if you like Dutch people , It might be Dutch week . |
Er, no. The OP is going in the first week of April and Dutch week is always the last week of April/first week of May to celebrate Queen's Day which is April 30th.
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Ignore my posts I read the post as week starting 23rd April silly me , all will be fine including Val T .
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Rob Mackley, les arcs doesn't close until the end of April. There is usually good skiing up till then. Last year there was tons of snow in 1600 until May.
This year I'll probably be in les arcs about that time
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Not sure why the bashing of Val D interms of access to slopes. You can make it as easy as you like. We have stayed 50m from Ski school meeting point and also up in Le Fornet which was 20m from a lift and 10m from a bus stop. Would add the buses are free and very frequent. They also drop you pretty much next to the ski school so when we were in Le Fornet itwas actually easier getting to ski school and the main lifts than staying in an apartment that was a 5min walk one year.
Much like most resorts very much depends where you choose to stay but don't be put off by a bus in Val d'isere.
We have been in April a few times and Val d'isere and Tignes is great this time of year, busy to still have a bit of atmosphere but quiet enough that you wont queue or at least rarely. Snow has been great every time we have been in April. My favourite time of year.
Just to add on beginners I wouldn't worry to much, its not the best resort for beginners but there is enough to get going. If they are the sort of people that will pick it up quickly they will have a great time there is loads for early intermediates. I would definitely recommend downloading on the lifts at the end of the day though.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Raceplate, you have such a strong opinion about ValD I won't bother pointing out how completely wrong you are (oops), but for balance I think it needs to be stated that in poor weather there aren't many worst resorts to be in than Val Thorens, both town and slopes. A beginner experiencing ValT in a stormy week is very likely to be put off skiing for life.
@therock, quite
@Angusbutterfield, I'd say any of your choices would be fine on the skiing side (if your beginners are in lessons the instructors will advise where to go when not in lessons), but my (biased) preference would be Val d'Isere, if only because it's the only one with an proper central village with an attractive high street, as opposed to the purpose build brutalism of Tignes/Les Arcs/ValT, therefore the only one that fulfils your criteria for an alpine village vibe.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Angusbutterfield, whilst Val d'isere has a reputation for being difficult for beginners, I would like to add that I learned to ski there about 15-20 years ago. One week learning there in late March and I was hooked. Agreed, there aren't really any beginner runs to town though.
Even though I have skied different resorts since then, the only year I haven't skied Val d'Isere was the 2020/21 season and we know what happened then.
Val d'Isere gives you easy access to Tignes as well.
As others have said, the buses are frequent shuttle buses and I see them more of a convenience than a chore. You don't need to worry about where you ski down to as wherever it is, there will be a bus stop nearby and a bus along within a few minutes to drop you back into town.
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A lot of good info above.
FWIW....
I don't think it matters that much - so I would go with the accommodation you like the look of. What actually matters is the quality of the Instruction and size of the class.
My lot all learned in Val D'Isere, which was nearly 25 years ago - and things have improved since then. It has a nicer village than Tignes, but is more expensive. We used Snowfun (English office, which may not now exist) and Evo 2. Take Piste Gradings with a pinch of salt - but the Instructors will know.
If going to Tignes - Val Claret is higher and easier to ski back to than Lac.
If going to Les Arcs - Arc 1800 has easier runs down to it than Arc 1600. Arc 1950 is excellent but expensive. Arc 2000 can be a bit desolate if the weather closes in.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Old Fartbag, I agree about your summary of Les arcs and would not recommend arc 1600 for beginners. Oddly imho the place I would recommend for beginners is vallandry. Though you have to download for the first day or two it is more straightforward than Val d’Isere.
Though heavy snowfall is possible in April it very rarely closes arc2000 down that time of year.
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