 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi! I am contemplating getting a dedicated "mountaineering" AT ski. For "fitness laps", headlamps night tours up resort runs, days out with workmates on random snow, and ideally high, far and steep spring tours.
all these uses combined may total to maybe 5-10 days per winter, hence the "inexpensive" tag.
Me: 187cm (almost 6'2), 75-78kg, I dare to say expert skier at 50 days/winter, living in the alps.
Current Quiver:
2019 QST 106 (181): Good Floater, compliant, covers most soft snow inbounds and some short tours. Has lost quite some stiffness under heavy resort riding.
2022 BC Serpo 180: In bounds hard snow carver, what a ski!
2022 BC Camox Freebird 183 w/Alpinists: Reasonable weight all around stable AT ski that can handly variable snow and some resort. Feels long and stable to me.
So a new AT ski would have to be:
-stupid easy in kick turns (<180cm)
-very secure uphill on hard traverses
-stable enough for riding with a hut to hut pack
-floaty enough so overnight snow won't ruin the day
-dependable, but not asking for the stiffest of boots
-light-ish, thinking <1300g actual
-waist 80-95?
And preferably on the inexpensive side of things. As in, maybe not a Skitrab or DPS or other boutique skis, given possible use on shallow snowpack and rocky spring descents. Let alone justification issues. As you can tell from my quiver, I have sunk some cash recvently. I'd rather go 100g heavier than pay a lot more. The closer to 90/95mm, the more likely I can use my existing split skins.
The Camox FBs come in at 1950g/leg with bindings, so 1600g for the set per side would make sense to make a difference?
Would buy used, too, so even discontinued suggestions could help.
Thanks for your input!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Can’t see what’s wrong with your Camox FBs for that use case.
Fwiw I’m 188cm/ 79kg, and have a similar set of skis. I’d definitely not be spending money on another set for that use as for me the camox fbs would be ideal. If you don’t think the Alpinists are ideal bindings why not quiver killer something else on for this use?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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oh well, the alpinists are just fine and I particulary like them for their low delta.
the freebirds, given chord length (182) and forward-ish mount point have some tail. kick turns are okay, not great. I have short-ish legs. Then again, I may just have been on undersized AT skis for a long time.
177 Dynafit beats felt a bit toy-ish and unsubstantial offpiste and in difficult snow, hence the switch to more ski (camox fb).
I'll do some more tours in the residual snowpack the next few days and then make up my mind 
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Volkl VTA discontinued
Volkl Rise high - 180 ; 88 width , 1160g
Blizzard 0g 88 or 95 178 about 1250g
Fischer Hannibal 96 about 1300 g in 184
None of these are especially trendy or boutique.
Quiver Killer the alpinists and then you can go brakeless whenever you like . Goes from 335 to 235 g .
At your height you should be able to kick turn a longer ski - I’m 6’1 (186) and 184/186 isn’t really a big problem. Do some stretching! Bear in mind thinner is also easier (less plush friction, sidehilling easier etc .)
Then start saving for the Tecnica zero g peak.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| danbre2022 wrote: |
| oh well, the alpinists are just fine and I particulary like them for their low delta. |
What's "low delta" mean on a ski? 
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Low delta means low difference of height above ski (of heel versus toe of boot)
Ski Binding vary greatly in how much they lift your heels. Variation is bigger in AT than alpine Bindings. I shim most Binding toes to make up for that.
This affects balance, stance, everything.
Low delta in the alpinist means your stance in them is pretty much as if you stood on a flat surface, whereas in Dynafit Radicals you'd have a ~15mm heel lift.
The same happens inside each boot, as even the surface you stand on in the boot is sloping. That's ramp.
My theory is that delta and ramp interact with mount point considerations. I tend to feel "too far forward" on a ski when delta is excessive.
High Delta can also make your boots feel too soft.
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For all round performance/value for money in this category I don't think you can beat the Scott Speedguide 89 at 1270g in their longest 176cm length.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| For all round performance/value for money in this category I don't think you can beat the Scott Speedguide 89 at 1270g in their longest 176cm length. |
^^^ hard to argue with this. I squeezed into the missus’ 170cm SpeedGuide 80’s / Crest 10’s supplied by @Spyderjon and was impressed!
I’m also sensitive to delta angles but don’t seem to have the issue with ATK bindings?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Inboard,
what boots do ski your Camx FBs with?
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Can somebody describe the Speedguide 88s a bit more? German reviews seem to consider them "demanding", "requiring attention" ?
How about the "budget" Kastle TX87 up?
I would ski either of them in a short-ish 176/174 length (for my 187cm/80 kg build) as mountaineering skis for piste, spring and early summer + hut to hut stuff.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| danbre2022 wrote: |
Can somebody describe the Speedguide 88s a bit more? German reviews seem to consider them "demanding", "requiring attention" ?
How about the "budget" Kastle TX87 up?
I would ski either of them in a short-ish 176/174 length (for my 187cm/80 kg build) as mountaineering skis for piste, spring and early summer + hut to hut stuff. |
I’ve skied my wife’s speed guide 80’s in a 170 length and they are quite nice despite being too short for me. Surprisingly good in hard conditions. Trickier in windblown crust etc but quite manageable and beautifully light! I previously had Kastle TX98’s but didn’t get on with them.
I got the Rise Above 88 in a 177 last season based on a recommendation on here and have been very impressed! Similar usage goals to yours. I would say this review reflects my experience. They’re fun (and quite easy) to ski in all conditions from piste to deep pow and nice and light for the up.
https://thepilloutdoor.com/test-volkl-rise-above-88/?lang=en
More here: https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=157809&start=40
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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thanks! I am eying the Rise Above, too. just wondering whether the shovels might feel wide when sidehilling on hard snow?
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| danbre2022 wrote: |
| thanks! I am eying the Rise Above, too. just wondering whether the shovels might feel wide when sidehilling on hard snow? |
I took them up Mont Rogneux which is steep and scoured at the top, without ski crampons and they were ok. I’d be more worried about a straight ski that will give you problems on the way down when you’re tired! You can always get ski crampons if you’re in some really sketchy terrain.
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You know it makes sense.
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How about boot matching for either the Speedguides or the Rise Aboves. I am in the late full carbon cuff Zzero 4 atm. They ski well enough but are heavy and a bit wide. Trying on dozens of boots during the season has lead to the conclusion that I will buy a pair of Scarpa Quattro SLs from my dealer in autumn. Now that is a pretty serious boot! Will I be over-booted in the Quattros for such a 1200-1300g skis? I will likely get "1kg class boots" later but maybe not during 23/24 season yet.
whats's your take?
cheers!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Had the MTN 95s, in fact, for a brief period. They were too concave to efficiently grind flat, sadly. Some don't care, I do. I did not click with them anyway. Don't know what it was. But certainly a nice, compliant product.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| danbre2022 wrote: |
How about boot matching for either the Speedguides or the Rise Aboves. I am in the late full carbon cuff Zzero 4 atm. They ski well enough but are heavy and a bit wide. Trying on dozens of boots during the season has lead to the conclusion that I will buy a pair of Scarpa Quattro SLs from my dealer in autumn. Now that is a pretty serious boot! Will I be over-booted in the Quattros for such a 1200-1300g skis? I will likely get "1kg class boots" later but maybe not during 23/24 season yet.
whats's your take?
cheers! |
I think you might be. That boot looks more suited to a bigger freeride ski. I’m riding the Tecnica Zero G Peak Carbon with the Rise Aboves and think they match perfectly.
By point of comparison I’ve also got the (significantly beefier) Zero G Tour pros and pair those with DPS Pagoda Tour 112’s (1600g) for powder touring.
If there are proper pow conditions I suck up the weight and take the DPS which allow you to shred at higher speed, more suspension, and in more security. If not I go with the Rise Aboves which are much more enjoyable on the up but require more precision and care skiing down.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Yes indeed, guess the quattro SL and Zero Gs are somewhat in the same category.
Have you ever tried skiing the Rise Aboves with the Zero Gs?
Also good to know you like the match with the Zero G Peak.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| danbre2022 wrote: |
Have you ever tried skiing the Rise Aboves with the Zero Gs?
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Sorry no
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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How would a Salomon MTN 88 stack up in this field? I did't really connect with my (concave) 95s but would dare to give the 88s a try.
The 88 should weight around 1300g. Is that "heavy enough" not to be degrading too quickly?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Pulled the trigger on some Kästle TX87up in 174. These are apparently a simplified version of the TX with fiberglass instead of the carbon and a core from heavier wood. 1400g per ski. Could not resist at 290€. People here ask more for used gear...
Likely Binding will be a Kästle branded ATK, or if else fails some Alpinists with shimmed heels.
Sure, I could have found something lighter, but these feel extremely well made and flex really nixe, more fluid vs the rigid feel of Backland SLs and such, but still quite strong. They feel nothing like beginner skis. MSRP is not beginner level anyway.
Fast forward to november please
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| danbre2022 wrote: |
How would a Salomon MTN 88 stack up in this field? I did't really connect with my (concave) 95s but would dare to give the 88s a try.
The 88 should weight around 1300g. Is that "heavy enough" not to be degrading too quickly? |
Seemingly too late for you, but in case anyone else wonders... The MTN 88s are well crafted modern mountaineering skis with all the bells and whistles: carbon, ABS, fancy damping materials, binding mount reinforcement, etc. Like all Amer top of the line skis they are built at Atomic's main factory in Altenmarkt.
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Thanks anyway!
btw, snowcountry have steep discounts atm, decent AT skis around 200€...
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