 Poster: A snowHead
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Thinking I might buy one for the coming winter.
Any suggestions or comments?
Pretty sure there’s nowhere local I can get canisters refilled, so electric will be the way to go.
Very limited choice here, looks like either Scott e1 or BD Jetforce pro. I like the idea of the interchangeable packs on the BD ones, and looks to be a bit more split board friendly than the Scott? But the Scott looks lighter. Might see osprey ones arrive here so that could also be a possibility.
Would be great if there’s any real world views on these options. Lotta $$. Would like to make the best choice. I usually use a BCA stash 30 which I really like.
Thanks 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If you get a BCA float you can get cylinders filled at any scuba, paintball or airgun store. That said I'd still go supercspacitor if buying now.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'm regularly shipping the Scott Patrol E1 kits to NZ based customers.
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@spyderjon, oh right ! I’ll get in touch. That’s good to know. How well do they carry a splitboard?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@hang11, Exports from the UK to NZ are zero rated for UK VAT. You'd then need to pay the NZ VAT on the combined goods and shipping cost plus a small customs clearance fee to FedEx/UPS prior to delivery.
I'm not sure if I've sold one of the Scott Patrol packs to a splitboarder but the side/A frame carry system is excellent with fat skis so it'd work well for you. Plus the airbag will still deploy when the pack is used in that way. Or a full board can be carried on the front of the pack.
There's an E2 version of the Alpride supercapacitor system due in Oct/Nov '22 but supplies will be very limited as the full launch is not until Autumn '23.
The E2's coming this year will only be in 30L packs with the other sizes (22L & 40L) will not coming until the full launch. The E2 system is slightly smaller/lighter and it has an LED charge status display and an external deflation valve (both of which aren't needed IMO). However the pack is slightly larger and heavier than the E1 30L meaning there's no overall change in weight:
E1 30L: 60 x 28 x 19cm 1390g pack + E1 system 1340g = Total 2730g
E2 30L: 60 x 29 x 19cm 1580g pack + E2 system 1140g = Total 2720g
The E2 system is not compatibile with E1 system pack and vica versa. The E2 system is also quite a bit dearer. For this reason the E1 system will continue to be offered alongside the E1.
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If they don't inflate, you've probably had a low speed impact 
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Mammut system is cannister based but the flip comes in at just under 2kg with the cannister. The Scott is a really nice piece of kit but it's heavier. Obviously not a consideration if you are predominantly riding lifts but a significant consideration for longer tours.
Being able to recharge the system easily is attractive but, in practice, if you ever pull the thing for real you have massively screwed up. So recharging the thing and getting back on with it may be a low priority.
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Yeah, each to their own and all that. I only have actual experience since the first SnowPulse stuff , which on the internet is perhaps not as useful as you may imagine.
I have a Mammut with a carbon cylinder and it's the lightest thing I could get. To me that's what matters. They'll all do their thing in an emergency, which I plan never to be in, but every day I have to carry the sucker, so I want it to be light. I occasionally carry other bags and they've all been horrible big heavy things. Weight is all with this stuff, for me.
The idea that people may want to pull these things more than once a day (or once a week, or once a season!) is a bit radical to me. Those people have much bigger willies than me. But I probably ride more powder, and I'm not going to lug some big thing which I have to take off for every up-lift.
The main negative of the cylinder stuff is the US... I mostly ride in-bounds off piste at Snowbird, where I'd not bother with an airbag anyway.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for the advice all 
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The advantage of supercapitor packs is discharge for air travel particularly into / out of the US though I understand they are still back bottoms about that. Not pulling multiple times per day....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Luckily I live in the most repressed hard to get into country in the world so the only air travel I’ll be doing with it will be in a helicopter
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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The e1 isn't really noticeably heavier (if at all) than the older cylinder packs. I've had several Scott packs: the first and second gen gas bags and then the e1. E1 every time. The difference is grams not kilograms. The benefit of being able to test it at the start of every season is worth it alone IMV and the ergonomics are way more influential on comfort than the weight. The older packs were...crap in that regard. Choose the one that's the most comfortable and makes the best use of space.
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I have a bca which I liked the idea I could recharge the cylinder by myself on the cheap either by a scuba cylinder or high pressure hand pump. Tbh in reality it's a pain in the ass. I also didn't get my cylinder on a transatlantic flight this season. Planning on a upgrade to a scott E2 at some point.
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You know it makes sense.
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I was just changing my old ABS for something new before last season and went with Scott. I wanted something without canisters, so as you wrote, you have either Alpride or Pieps/BD. Well with E2 coming out I think there is or will be also BCA. I didn't like Pieps idea of batteries, even though it has one good point. In case of airbag tear, batteries and fan are suppose to keep bag inflated, while with everything else, you get one impulse and that's it. If there's bag tear you are out of luck. But there's pretty big weight penalty for this.
So my choice was Scott. Backpack itself is great, and at least for me it fits super nice on my back, so you don't even feel having it on (not so much the case with old ABS). But those 40L are well... not really 40L, so 30L would be really for lift assisted freeride, where you don't need anything else then some tea and sandwich and maybe skins just in case. Forget about crampons, second gloves, ski goggles packed in backpack, extra down jacket with hardshell jacket packed into backpack on way up. 40L is on limit when packing all this, or I don't know how to pack good, which can also be case, but there's no way for me to get everything, what I normally need for ski tour which involves some climbing, and therefore crampons and ice axes too, into 30L.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I switched from an ABS to the Scott E1 at the start of this season. It's heavy when packed, but I agree with @Sharkymark, the shape and fit is more important, and TBH, once it's on my back I don't really notice it. No need to remove for chairlifts, and the ski carrying system is a doddle.
I'm not sure anyone survives an avalanche, repacks their airbag and decides to have another go. The other advantage of the supercapacitor packs is that you have a get-out-of-jail-free card if it gets pulled by accident. Never done it myself, but I've seen them release unintentionally twice (user error, I believe  ). With canisters, testing is something that costs money and means you need to get to a dealer before you have a working airbag again, rather than just plugging it in for a hour.
My two design issues with the Scott are that on a schuss/in a tuck I cannot lift my head to see where I'm going. Not really much of an issue on a powder day, but can be a pain on the on-piste exit route. The other is that this is not a bag you can easily dip your hand in and grab something – you need to put it down and fully open the zip to get access to the inside, being mindful that your shovel handle doesn't take off down the hill while you do so.
@primoz, I did a comparison on here in about Nov 2021 of the 22L vs the 30L. You can see what I packed into the 30L, and it still includes spares of most things I need.
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Poster: A snowHead
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So would the Scott 30l hold enough for a day tour - skins crampons goggs jacket spares bit of food/drink and avi gear ?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I'm slightly sceptical regarding the fit/weight thing. Yes it's nice if it fits well. It's also nice if it's light. My ABS was 2800g, the Flip weighs in at just over 1900g and the 30L I have for touring approx 2100g. ABS actually carried pretty well but it's basically a brick.
Regarding compromised space: they are all smaller than advertised. The answer here is to buy smaller kit. Irvis hybrid crampons pack down to roughly half the size of my older Grivels. Similarly 30m rad line weighs nothing and packs down a lot smaller than the equivalent 8mm rope. Petzl ride ice axe goes in the bag. I am also never going back to a hard water bottle as a soft flask will fit in crevices your rucksack didn't know it had. That said, if conditions are benign and I am not skiing consequential terrain, I will usually tour without the bag.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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[quote="hang11"]So would the Scott 30l hold enough for a day tour - skins crampons goggs jacket spares bit of food/drink and avi gear ?[/quote
I also have a Scott E1 30L and it’s fine for a day’s touring carrying all the necessary bits. You quickly lean how to pack it in the most efficient way. It’s also not too big for a day skiing in resort. It charges very quickly in less than an hour if needed - the AA batteries help it hold power for multiple trips so no need to recharge every time.
Test deployment and repacking of airbag can be done in 5 mins. Coupl of nice-to-haves would be a small zip pocket on the hip belt and some sort of elastic system on the back to store a jacket without having to put it in the bag (easy to retrofit). I will also be adding a dynafit water bottle holder to the shoulder strap in time for for next season. Last thing it the complete airbag system can be removed and put into a larger E1 compatible bag if planing a multi-day trip.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Just a quick note. The black diamond jet force pro tour uses the alpride e1 system aswell.
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| WASHOUT wrote: |
| Just a quick note. The black diamond jet force pro tour uses the alpride e1 system aswell. |
. As does the Osprey which seems to have better pockets.
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| WASHOUT wrote: |
| Just a quick note. The black diamond jet force pro tour uses the alpride e1 system as well. |
Yes, but it's smaller than the Patrol 30L and the E1 system it's not removable/swappable. And there's no side/A frame carry.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
| .......with the Scott are that on a schuss/in a tuck I cannot lift my head to see where I'm going...... |
Not a problem for those that aren't vertically challenged  . Or you could adjust the top of the shoulder straps to drop the height of the pack a tad.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| Scarlet wrote: |
| .......with the Scott are that on a schuss/in a tuck I cannot lift my head to see where I'm going...... |
Not a problem for those that aren't vertically challenged . Or you could adjust the top of the shoulder straps to drop the height of the pack a tad. |
I'll have a go, but it'll need to go an inch or two and I'm wary of moving the weight too low.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
| spyderjon wrote: |
| Scarlet wrote: |
| .......with the Scott are that on a schuss/in a tuck I cannot lift my head to see where I'm going...... |
Not a problem for those that aren't vertically challenged . Or you could adjust the top of the shoulder straps to drop the height of the pack a tad. |
I'll have a go, but it'll need to go an inch or two and I'm wary of moving the weight too low. |
I've got mine adjusted as high as possible and don't have that problem.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@spyderjon, yeah, but you're a full-size adult 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| hang11 wrote: |
| So would the Scott 30l hold enough for a day tour - skins crampons goggs jacket spares bit of food/drink and avi gear ? |
For me, definitely not, especially if I have crampons with me. At least those times when I have "standard" ice climbing crampons with me. When I know I'm not gonna be climbing anything bad, I use Petzl Leopard LLF, which fold nicely in super small pouch, so with those it would be slightly better. Next to that, it's hardshell jacket that I have in backpack on way up, which takes most of space. It's kinda thick and big (Scott Vertic 3L GTX) so it doesn't fold into really small piece. So it also depends quite a bit what crampons and what jacket you have.
In my 40L I normally put this:
Shovel and probe and ski crampons into front pocket. One 0.75L water bottle goes also there.
For main compartment, it's first aid roll, spare base layer top part, primaloft isolation jacket (smashed into almost nothing), warm gloves for downhill, ski goggles, crampons, hardshell jacket for down, crampons, and another 0.75L bottle and sandwich if tour is longer. Helmet goes on outside, and so does one or two ice axes.
I tried to put this into 30L but with no success for me. I admit I'm obviously nowhere near as good as @Scarlet is with her packing abilities, so maybe someone could make it into 30L, but for me it just doesn't go.
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You know it makes sense.
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| hang11 wrote: |
| So would the Scott 30l hold enough for a day tour - skins crampons goggs jacket spares bit of food/drink and avi gear ? |
Plenty of conflicting answers here, but I can easily do a day tour with a 30L, including crampons, skins, goggles, avi kit, down vest, shell, and plenty of food and water.
I use relatively lightweight gear rather than bulky heavy goretex etc. which has an advantage in pack size terms.
My son uses the 22L pack for the same, tho' he tends to carry less food and water.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@snowdave, that's why I wrote what shell I normally use. Because with lighter/thinner/whatever is right word options, you can pack it basically half size or even less, and then things change drastically. For me that shell is basically biggest space consumption when packing, so if you normally use something lighter I'm sure even 30L would most likely do, especially when combing this with crampons like Leopard.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
My son uses the 22L pack for the same, tho' he tends to carry less food and water.
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I have a mammut 22L airbag and find it's enough for day tours (food and drink, skins, light down jacket, shell, gloves). Goggles and avy equipment go in their respective pockets (suspect this is included in the 22L but perhaps not). Helmet on outside.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I wouldn't call it compact as although the 'system' is a good size it's not transferable to other packs but instead it is installed in the 'base' pack and then different size rear packs can be zipped on/off - so you end up with the weight further off the users back.
And it's biggest issue is that the battery only has a life of 50 activiations/charges!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
And it's biggest issue is that the battery only has a life of 50 activiations/charges!
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Is that really a big issue? If you are expecting to deploy your avy bag 50+ times I'd say you have bigger problems than battery life!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| Quote: |
And it's biggest issue is that the battery only has a life of 50 activiations/charges!
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Is that really a big issue? If you are expecting to deploy your avy bag 50+ times I'd say you have bigger problems than battery life! |
I know plenty of resort based people/guides/rental operations that like to regularly test their bag(s), ie weekly. And if you wanted to sell the pack on then it could be a problem.
The cheapest 27L Litric will be the same price as the E2 but that's a non zip-on version so the system is not swappable at all. IIRC the Litric 'system' is about 60g lighter than the E2 system but Ortovox/Arc' haven't yet quoted any pack weights. I'll still some Litrics but from what I've seen so far they don't stack-up against the supercapacitor system IMO.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Regarding the size of the packs, I'm with @primoz on this. The main issue with the e1 is the placement of the motor and battery. The pack is very slim (which is excellent) but the guts of it are placed centrally. This means the 30L (which I used to own) is closer to a 20-25L in terms of usability. For a 'standard' day spring ski tour in the alps it can just about fit what you need. However, if you need spikey bits, extra extra layers, other schizzle (like when in the north) then you end up strapping stuff to the outside. Bad times.
The 40L is a different story. I can fit first aid kit, ski crampons, avi kit, spare mid, down, lunch, crampons, camera with 2 lenses (perhaps 5 litres), outer shell (when climbing), skins (when not climbing), water., probably forgetten something but then I never pack after I've been in the pub for 4 hours haha..it's significantly more beneficial than the 30L for its volume.
Forget the 22L unless you're just skiing lifts.
The e2 makes better use of the space again, according to inside info.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| boarder2020 wrote: |
| Quote: |
And it's biggest issue is that the battery only has a life of 50 activiations/charges!
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Is that really a big issue? If you are expecting to deploy your avy bag 50+ times I'd say you have bigger problems than battery life! |
I know plenty of resort based people/guides/rental operations that like to regularly test their bag(s), ie weekly. And if you wanted to sell the pack on then it could be a problem.
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I suppose it could be an issue for rental operations. Why would any individual that owns their bag be testing it weekly though?! I think BCA recommend testing it once at the start of each season, which seems reasonable.
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Forget the 22L unless you're just skiing lifts.
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I mean you have both me and snowdaves son managing ok with it, so it's certainly possible to tour with a 22L bag. I'm sure not all 22L bags are created equal though, so perhaps depends just how "creative" manufactory are being with their measurements. 22L does force you to be a bit more selective, you can't simply put everything in there for "just in case" situations, but I've never been in a position where I was missing something due to lack of space (being dumb and forgetting to pack stuff is a different story  ). 30L offers more flexibility. 40l is huge unless you have some specific requirements e.g. camera equipment.
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@boarder2020, fair play. I just find the motor takes up space in the 'wrong place' to make best use of the space. I'd end up strapping shed layers to the outside when ascending, which would wind me right up! All 3 packs sit really close to the back so even when empty, they cinch down well and the 40L doesn't act like a tent / parachute when empty.
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I had a Mammut 20l ultralight and really liked it apart from the ski carry - didn’t have a problem getting most of the stuff in but you needed to be organized. Got a 35l pro and haven’t gone back to the UL as the ski carry is so much better and you can just throw extra stuff in. I do a fair bit of boot packing and the weight is less of an issue than the comfort.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@boarder2020, only thing is, Scott 30L is not same as Mammut 30L or ABS 30L. Before I had ABS with 26L zipon and I put managed to fit everything in there easy, with crampons included. I can fit exactly same stuff into 40L Scott now, but there's no way to fit same thing into Scott 30L. So if you fit everything fine into 22L Mammut, it doesn't mean you would fit it into 30L Scott.
And while 40L of Scott really sounds huge, it's not that big afterall. Just by the look (I never bothered to measure), it's more narrow and slimmer then ABS but slightly taller. When it comes to volume, I would never say it has 14L more then my previous 26L ABS. As @Sharkymark wrote, it really depends how each company puts airbag system in, and with Scott, it's in middle of the pack, make packing a bit different, then for example with ABS, where whole airbag thing was in base, and zipon was normal backpack without any airbag stuff.
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FAQ
