 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hello
Can fleece be used as a mid layer vs synthetic and down?
Thanks
Max
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
Yes
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
Fleece is synthetic 
But yes, though you might want to get a less bulky style if you want to stuff it in a backpack.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
Ah ok, so all the sexy expensive synthetic gear are just sexier less bulky fleeces, essentially (different material I know)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Fleece is somewhat breathable, and used to be the normal choice of second layer (i.e. just inside the jacket) for cold days but since the introduction of Merino clothing for winter sports it's not most people's first choice these days.
I know I'm not alone in this, but I quite often have three layers of Merino beneath a shell jacket - much less bulky and much more breathable than fleece.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
One thing which puzzles me about fleece is what the technical difference is, if any, between the cheap ones (f'rinstance Decathlon) and the expensive ones (f'rinstance Rab).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
IMO Fleece is a Mid Layer....unless very thin, in which it can be worn next the skin.
You have a Base Layer (Natural or Synthetic) - whose job is to keep you dry by wicking sweat away from the body as quickly as possible.
You then have mid layers, which certainly include Fleece
After that you have the Outer Layer - which is there to keep Wind, Rain and snow out. It can be Insulated or uninsulated (Shell). If uninsulated, an extra insulating layer (either Down or Synthetic, like Primaloft) can be added when very cold.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Fri 24-06-22 9:21; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| pam w wrote: |
| One thing which puzzles me about fleece is what the technical difference is, if any, between the cheap ones (f'rinstance Decathlon) and the expensive ones (f'rinstance Rab). |
I'm not sure, but I've had various "qualities" of fleece and although not a double-blind test, I think the more expensive stuff feels nicer and pills less. But I may be a fanboi.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
@philwig, yes I agree. Hubby had a lovely goretex Fleece one that got stolen. Peak Performance I think. My 'similar' Regatta one was just not the same.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
Fleece is somewhat breathable, and used to be the normal choice of second layer (i.e. just inside the jacket) for cold days but since the introduction of Merino clothing for winter sports it's not most people's first choice these days.
I know I'm not alone in this, but I quite often have three layers of Merino beneath a shell jacket - much less bulky and much more breathable than fleece. |
But this is an internet forum, so obviously there's a disagreement to be had 
I use merino for base layers. I have a merino mid layer, but only really use it for casual wear – more likely to be thrown on at breakfast than carried on the hill. It's not bulky, but it is heavy compared to a fleece, which weighs almost nothing in a backpack. However, my partner has a rather nice Dynafit merino mid layer which is neither bulky nor heavy, but it does have quite large panels of breathable synthetic fabric which reduce the weight a lot.
The fleeces I use as mid layers now are quite thin, and have a smooth outer finish. Arguably, they may not be as warm as the traditional fleece type because they won't trap as much air, but if I'm getting cold then I'll be adding a down layer anyway. They are a bit smarter and more stylish than bulky fleeces, but that's a personal preference.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
@Scarlet, Not sure how you think that fleece is lighter than merino. Are you sure you're not getting confused with quilted clothing?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| @Scarlet, Not sure how you think that fleece is lighter than merino. Are you sure you're not getting confused with quilted clothing? |
Warmth to weight of high performance fleece does tend to be better than merino. It is the fleece structure that traps air (trapped air is the lightest insulator).
The other thing about fleece is that it can (if the structure is right) wick amazingly well. If I am going to be working really hard I will often wear a very light fleece as a base layer - it does a better job of moving moisture from the skin than merino. It also moves the moisture to the face of the fabric rather than locking it in the fibres (as merino does) where it can evaporate. Powerstretch fleece is an example of the highly technical fleece that performs brilliantly in this role. There are others.
Don't get me wrong - I normally wear merino base layers because they feel nice and don't get stinky. For something fairly low energy like downhill skiing they are ideal. I quite often wear a merino mid layer for the same reason. But if weight or wicking matters (ski touring, mountaineering, fast hiking) I'd pick a technical fleece every time.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Quote: |
One thing which puzzles me about fleece is what the technical difference is, if any, between the cheap ones (f'rinstance Decathlon) and the expensive ones (f'rinstance Rab).
|
I would not put the fleeces from say Decathlon in the the cheep ones classes. In that class I would put the £2 fleece I bought in Bulgaria years ago - it was stiff and "balled" badly. It didn't fit either.
Thankfully the days wehn you could find your way on a rock climb just by following the balled off bits of fleece up the climb are now long gone and the fabric is stong, light, warm, last for ever and very importantly dries quickly
Personally I would go for an artificial fabric mid layer every time.
As an afterthought is merino wool really fleece? It certainly was when on the sheep.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Chaletbeauroc wrote: |
| Not sure how you think that fleece is lighter than merino. Are you sure you're not getting confused with quilted clothing? |
I am quite sure.
I am talking from personal experience. I have mid layers of both types. Kitchen scales says the merino one is 200g heavier than the fleece, so the fleece is about 60% of the weight of the merino and packs down smaller. That's not to say that there aren't fleeces that weigh more than merino mids, but ime lightweight merino tops are a fabric mix. Mine is 270gsm merino, 91%. YMMV.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| JohnE wrote: |
| As an afterthought is merino wool really fleece? It certainly was when on the sheep. |
 Well, I suppose that's where the word comes from. But I think it's pretty widely accepted in the outdoor industry that “fleece” describes something made from 100% polyester, these days often advertised as being recycled PET bottles or fishing nets or whatever.
Merino ceases to be a fleece, once it has been spun, non?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Sounds like I'm waaay out of date on modern fleece garments then. Maybe I'll have another think, I must be due some new mid layers one of these years 
Mean? No, just careful. Not enough storage as it is for the decades of 'still OK but never actually used' ski gear, need to throw stuff away before getting any more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
I've been using these https://www.genuinearmysurplus.co.uk/store/British-Army-New-Genuine-PCS-Thermal-Combat-Fleece-Undershirts-p126613761 for anything from solo (straight onto skin) thin underlayed to combine as mid/top layer, or additional layer in mid under jacket.
Really soft feel, zip enclosure (doesn't contact you when fully up) long enough sleeve/tail, all seams soft/flat and not abrasive, just about everything covered in practical sense. The pale colour if you don't wish to look military (obviously there's not much choice) but performance, and particularly balanced against cost, not much comes close in my experience. Used skiing, camping, mtb etc and wash clean without deterioration, tough as anything and just so comfortable. They are not generous round the waist (more athletic) which avoids excess and bunching under a jacket which is good, but you'll need to consider that if you've that specific requirement.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
I usually don't wear a much of midlayer unless it is really quite cold. A merino short and long sleeve T shirt plus a very thin fleece waistcoat or a nanopuff waistcoat- or an Alpkit primaloft waistcoat.
When I've worn a fleece I have ended up very hot and bothered.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| johnE wrote: |
| Thankfully the days wehn you could find your way on a rock climb just by following the balled off bits of fleece up the climb are now long gone and the fabric is stong, light, warm, last for ever and very importantly dries quickly |
Can't say I've experienced any issues with the longevity of fleece material. I've got a Vaude (Malden Mills Polartec) fleece that I'd date to about 1985 and still gets worn (all be it just for working in the garage these days - but used to get worn almost every day).
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Very interesting @jedster
I had not thought about using a light fleece as a base layer
| Quote: |
But if weight or wicking matters (ski touring, mountaineering, fast hiking) I'd pick a technical fleece every time.
|
Has anybody had experience using both a fleece and another synthetic base layer, and can tell me the difference?
Thanks!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
Surely there are as many different weights of fleece as there are makes. And generally decent enough fabric to be found anywhere (below highly technical garments). what you end up paying for is cut and seam quality. Cheap fleeces are more likely to separate at the collar or cuff or whatever. So that means anyone can experiment a bit to find what works for them. Downhill skiing isn't that sweaty (except when the sun is beating down in spring) so the most tech of solutions aren't really necessary.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
My own dislike of cheap fleeces is specifically the feel and wear of the fleece material itself; I've never had issues with the design or stitching.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Sports Direct fleeces are a bit thick n rough, while Decathlon ones are a bit too thin.
Primark used to sell some half zip fleeces, which were just about stretchy enough and just the right thickness (for me).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
BTW on a somewhat related topic. I experimented with an Alpkit Jura smock this winter. It's basically a knockoff of the classic Buffalo mountain shirt (which I have never used).
They are unbelievably effective garments. You can wear them as a single layer in anything from cool to cold and dry to damp conditions (sustained driving rain or warm doesn't really work) and they keep me dry next to the skin (and I'm a sweaty git), warm and comfortable.
Essentially it is a deep pile fleece with a pertex like shell. The deep pile fleece wicks like crazy. The moisture spreads across the pertex and evaporates like crazy. The effect is so strong that it drives moisture out faster than light rain can get in. If you get a heavy shower then the thing will get damp but when the rain stops you will quickly drive the dampness out.
For high energy stuff in wintery conditions it functions better than any combination of goretex and wicking layers I have tried.
Won't win any fashion awards though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| MaxiD wrote: |
Very interesting @jedster
I had not thought about using a light fleece as a base layer
| Quote: |
But if weight or wicking matters (ski touring, mountaineering, fast hiking) I'd pick a technical fleece every time.
|
Has anybody had experience using both a fleece and another synthetic base layer, and can tell me the difference?
Thanks! |
To use a Fleece as a Base Layer it needs to be 100 gsm or less - and smooth.
Base Layers that are most efficient, have a certain amount of compression - as by being tighter and touching your skin, they wick sweat more effectively.
For D/Hill skiing - I wouldn't worry too much about it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
