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How thin to go?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
The summer blues are starting to kick in and I am starting to think about my quiver. I really need to add a front side charger (current quiver WD r108/ redeemer/ director mk2 and Scott super guides 88. Currently short listed blizzard brahma 82 and vokl kendo 88 but should I be looking at something thinner more piste focused?
Happy to travel with 2 or 3 pairs of skis as long quiver killered so no built in binding system.
I know in perfect world I would try before buying but tbh it's just not practical.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
What's wrong with the Superguides? If you're not feeling the need to plug the gap in the mid 90s (where the Brahma or Kendo would fit nicely), then do it properly and go for a decent stiff piste ski in the size those are supposed to come in (mid 70s?). Or use the Superguides.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I agree that plugging the gap in your quiver would take a dedicated Piste ski eg. 68 - 72 underfoot.

Head Supershape range or Dynastar Piste skis (Speed 963 or 763) would be the sort of thing I'd be looking at.


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Thu 28-04-22 19:53; edited 1 time in total
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Go FIS GS or SL - then realise they have a very specialist performace window conditions wise outside of which they are complete dogs (but fortunately that's where any of your other skis would work). I had to resort to heaving the skis round or stem turning once the pistes became too soft for the tails of my GS skis to track. May experiment with a more aft binding position to see if I can get a touch more versatility though don't expect miracles,
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Dave of the Marmottes, not complete dog. I rather like an FIS GS (of which I have 3 pairs) in spring like snow.

FIS SLs are remarkably good in deep powder.
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@under a new name,
Not when you are my weight they aren't wink
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@WASHOUT,

We have a big overlap in our skis!
I have R108, Redeemers and superguide 88s too.

As Scarlet says, I think I wouldn't get something so close to the 88s. They are ridiculously good on firm snow for their weight. That said suspect you have light AT bindings on them which would give me pause if I was really cranking the speed and edge angle on hard snow.

When the pistes are firm and the off piste is meh I tend to take out one of two pairs of skis that hang around in my ski locker:

Some old stockli stormrider XLs - 75mm and 18m radius, pretty stiff and damp - basically similar to a good cheater GS ski
A pair of full fat Salomon FIS SL which I got second hand a couple of years ago.

TBH it is usually the latter now. They are unbelievably fun on piste. You can carve crazy tight turns. The are lovely and damp to smooth out chop and chatter. You can load the tails and ping off rollers and jumps. The edge grip and tight radius gives me confidence to commit to carving on even pretty steep slopes.

I'd go for some racy SLs - FIS or somewhat more recreational.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Yeah the superguides have marker alpinist bindings on them, was considering QK over the shifts aswell. Shame the super guides have only 2 days on them on v poor cairngorm snow so haven't really a proper charge on them yet.
OK going to keep a eye out for some decent nick 2nd hand SL's.
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@WASHOUT, bear in mind that many pure piste skis will have rail mounted bindings which are easy to take off, so you have some flexibility about how you pack them assuming overall weight isn't the issue. If weight is the issue - piste skis are heavy compared to all-mountain or off piste skis.

My current quiver is similar except that I have a piste ski (speedzone 12ti, 72 underfoot) as well. I can honestly say that getting the narrow ski (Vs a wider all mountain ski) is the best decision I've made. On piste skiing is way more fun, and my technical skiing has improved no end. No doubt many people can ski 80+ mm skis on piste better than I do, but if your technique is less than perfect, a narrower ski will be better for you.
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@under a new name, There is spring like snow and complete isothermic rot (where IMV only a rockered tail or at least twin tip gets you out of jail at least at my weight and sub sonic speeds)
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@WASHOUT, IMO the Brahma 82 can't be beaten for those wanting a flat decked ski for QK'ering etc.

However, for 22/23 Scott are bringing back their flat decked piste ski, the Scott Pure Piste 77TI:
167cm 120/77/110 17m 1390g
177cm 120/77/110 18m 1540g
184cm 120/77/110 19m 1670g
Full sidewall, Ti layer underfoot with carbon hybrid lay-up to keep the weight down (so skin'able) without being skittish. 23cm tip rocker, camber underfoot, flat tail. Basically an updated version of their excellent Black Majic piste that they (stupidly IMO) dropped a number of years ago.

And Shifts have a 70mm width footprint so with just fit with QK's although the 90mm brake (which is the narrowest they do as is really a 98mm) will need tweaking narrower but that's easy to do.

Currently taking preorders for them at mates rates wink
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@WASHOUT, I went through a similar thought process for this season. I do all my skiing in my touring boots and my skis are QK'd with Fritschi tectons. After a very helpful chat with @spyderjon, I ended up buying a pair of Brahma 82's and Jon stuck Tyrolia Attack2 Demo bindings on them for me. The heel and toe pieces come off in a few seconds, which makes them even easier to strip down for travel than the QK'd skis.

I took them to Saalbach in early March. There wasn't really any off piste to speak of and I ended up skiing the whole week on them and they were a blast. So much more fun on piste than my wider touring / all mountain / powder skis. The only downside was just how heavy they are compared to my other setups, when walking back from the pub.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Think I am going to try the shifts over on the speedguides and give them a blast prob at PSB. Such a shame they have hardly been used prob 20 turns.....
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@WASHOUT, I'm with @jedster on this, I'll be looking for a pair of (not Rossignol as I truly don't need skis marked up as "Hero" (I mean - really??)) nearly new FIS SLs for next season, just for the giggles.

I may also be in the market for a slightly easier daily ride Shocked
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Just to let you know, I have a pair of 180 Brahma 82 with Salomon STH2 13 looking for a new home.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Why are you looking at skis that are basically the same size as what you've already got?
r108 v Superguides at 88, makes sense: adding something that's 82-88 doesn't (to my mind). Knock 20mm off and then you're getting new experiences...
There's nothing in your quiver now that really thrives on piste - yep, some will do OK but that's not the same as the thrill of a 67mm ski that is truly designed for piste performance.

So I say: 100% SL's (and a couple of lessons in how to make them work for you.)
You don't have the same build as @Dave of the Marmottes, so they have the potential to work well for you on virtually any piste conditions.

But which SL?... that's the question.
A few years back, I tried every SL available at the SIGB ski test in Khutai. There was actually a lot more difference between them than I expected, but IMV the FIS spec Atomic Redster was by far the most fun. My Kneissl Whitestars take no prisoners though so when I'm feeling 'on it' they're the ones that pay back biggest!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Blossom AM 74
If you can find any that is ..
https://www.blossomski.com/turbo/?lang=en


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Fri 29-04-22 22:37; edited 1 time in total
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Go FIS GS or SL - then realise they have a very specialist performace window conditions wise outside of which they are complete dogs


Wha? Nah, if you're good enough to get the performance out of a proper stiff race ski, you're good enough to ski them on almost anything. Sure, my new race slalom skis were not the ideal tool on the off-piste breakable crust and crud last weekend, but hard pistes in the morning were a joy and even in the afternoon slush and pseudo-moguls on piste they were perfectly well behaved.

I currently use just 3 pairs of skis (well, apart from the telemark and the old fritschi-equipped twin-tips I might use for touring if I ever got around to it) but they don't really represent what you'd call a 'quiver'.
    Head WC Rebels FIS radius 'I-Race' slalom skis (brand new, but replaced some similar ones that had passed their expiry date) which are used for technical stuff including instructor courses, race training and teaching some particular skills

    Stöckli WC GS (18.5m radius) , now six or seven years old, these have been my normal everyday piste and teaching ski for a while now. Used them a couple of times on fresh powder this season - sure, they're not as easy to use as proper wide ones, but they didn't exactly struggle either.

    Salomon Rocker2 122s - great for powder, great for piste cruising, start to struggle on the hard pack and are a bit long for moguls

I'm not convinced about the need for a huge range of skis, TBH. For most of the time I'd be happy with one dedicated on-piste and one dedicated off-piste ski. (Not at the same time, you understand).
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@Chaletbeauroc, I'm sure if you ski them all the time you get used to skiing FIS skis everywhere but I maintain a stiff race skis isn't a lot of fun in hard bumps nor when a piste turns into isothermic snot (not just regular slush softening) whereas a flexy 10something can still be useful in both. It's a bit of a moot point granted given most of the season you won't be seeing such conditions if you're a groomer skier which is why I still advocate if you're going to acquire a purely piste focused ski you might as well go all in on the best SL you can find (or GS if you wnat to kill kids at the same time).
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
@Chaletbeauroc, I'm sure if you ski them all the time you get used to skiing FIS skis everywhere but I maintain a stiff race skis isn't a lot of fun in hard bumps nor when a piste turns into isothermic snot (not just regular slush softening) whereas a flexy 10something can still be useful in both. It's a bit of a moot point granted given most of the season you won't be seeing such conditions if you're a groomer skier which is why I still advocate if you're going to acquire a purely piste focused ski you might as well go all in on the best SL you can find (or GS if you wnat to kill kids at the same time).


Sure, I'm not disagreeing with that part, but they're much more flexible (metaphorically, not literally) than you seem to make out. On bumps in particular they would be always be my ski of choice, given that I'm trying to ski them like
this all the time. Whether I succeed or not is another matter, but a softer ski is really not the best tool for that job.

Edit: This forum software doesn't seem to honour the start time. Go to 1:37 for the moguls.
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Chaletbeauroc wrote:
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Go FIS GS or SL - then realise they have a very specialist performace window conditions wise outside of which they are complete dogs

Wha? Nah

The skis you list as the ones you own are not FIS GS or SL.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
The Heads are, in fact, an FIS radius ski. At 170cm they don't conform to World Cup regs, but are allowed in Masters competitions and the like. (They've messed with the naming a couple of time in the last year or three, and these ones were bought from an outlet store here in CH so are actually a couple of years old).

More importantly, they're a very stiff race slalom ski, which is what DotM was talking about, whether strictly an FIS ski or not.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
+ at 1.37 those are benign not real world bumps.

These are realler if flattered by the sprung softening and Caston's extreme skill.



http://youtube.com/v/YBtN4gRtXOU
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Much appreciated for all the good replies.
I am going around in circles (nice problem to have).
I am good think/ponder over this during the summer regarding SL's and haven't ruled out the scott piste option.... I have decided though is to quiver over the shifts on the superguides 88 and get some millage on them. Will need to get more days next season to make all these options work.
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