 Poster: A snowHead
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@TP54, thanks for posting. Very glad you’re still here to tell the tale! Must have been terrifying
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| TP54 wrote: |
| ecureuil wrote: |
| @TP54, glad you are ok. As you say it is helpful for us all to learn from your experience. Are you comfortable in saying whether the piste was open or closed at the time? |
Yes the Piste was open. I caught it all on camera and multiple people were using the run, unfortately me + brother were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, I guess thats just life. I dont blame the resort or its management, but I have learned a valuable lesson that fresh snowfall ontop of previously frozen + steep slope of a black run was the primary cause of the avalanche. From now on I aim to wear a tracker out of principle and make sure I have the resorts emergency number saved during my stay. The individual who made the first call had this number to hand which ultimately saved my life. |
Some great info there and thanks for sharing, tbh for some reason I've never thought of having the resort emergency number in my phone but it makes perfect sense. Glad you're all ok and thanks for coming onto the forum and sharing the experience.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@TP54, a very nasty incident, a great outcome and wish you both a full recovery.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I have an app "SOS Alert" on my Android phone which I installed from the play store whilst on an avalanche course in France last December.
One icon to press on home screen, an editable message and GPS location sent to up to 5 chosen numbers.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@colinstone, That's a great idea. It's all well and good having a phone but you'd have to know who to call and how to describe where you are. Not things I've thought about before.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I always had all the Espace Diamant piste rescue numbers on my phone - which meant, of course, I never had to use them. Just deleted them, rather sadly, a few weeks ago. When I needed rescuing it was near a lift so the liftie radio'd them.
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Are there specific phone numbers to use for individual resorts in an emergency or is it just use 112? I've just looked for a specific number for Val Thorens/Three Valleys but can't find anything.
The app SOS EU ALP is good for Tyrol, South Tyrol and Bavaria.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Mon 11-04-22 20:36; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| fuzzydunlop wrote: |
Are there specific phone numbers to use for individual resorts in an emergency or is it just use 122? I've just looked for a specific number for Val Thorens/Three Valleys but can't find anything.
The app SOS EU ALP is good for Tyrol, South Tyrol and Bavaria. |
The European emergency number is 112. This will get you the rescue services, but will require some routing as it is the general number (like 999 in the UK).
Be careful with local short-code emergency numbers – for example, 140 will get you mountain rescue in Tirol (might be all of Austria?), but apparently it only works from an Austrian phone number. Network roamers should use 112, or as above, the SOS app (which also sends your location, so that is preferable anyway).
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| TP54 wrote: |
| ecureuil wrote: |
| @TP54, glad you are ok. As you say it is helpful for us all to learn from your experience. Are you comfortable in saying whether the piste was open or closed at the time? |
Yes the Piste was open. I caught it all on camera and multiple people were using the run, unfortately me + brother were just in the wrong place at the wrong time, I guess thats just life. I dont blame the resort or its management, but I have learned a valuable lesson that fresh snowfall ontop of previously frozen + steep slope of a black run was the primary cause of the avalanche. From now on I aim to wear a tracker out of principle and make sure I have the resorts emergency number saved during my stay. The individual who made the first call had this number to hand which ultimately saved my life. |
Glad you're physically okay, and thanks for putting things right. I think often it's easy to jump to the "they were off piste without kit, how stupid" option when people don't know the whole story.
Also I think a really valid point about the emergency number, which doesn't just apply to off piste skiers. It's something I'm aware of but not so good at actually doing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| fuzzydunlop wrote: |
Are there specific phone numbers to use for individual resorts in an emergency or is it just use 122? I've just looked for a specific number for Val Thorens/Three Valleys but can't find anything.
The app SOS EU ALP is good for Tyrol, South Tyrol and Bavaria. |
Copying my reply from another thread...
If you download the official 'Les 3 Vallées' app there's an SOS button at the top.
When pressed it gives you a list of all the piste patrol numbers for the relevant area which you can just press to call. It also shows your lat/long GPS coordinates at the top so they can find you asap.
Other stuff it has includes the 3V piste maps, with live lift/piste status and opening/closing times.
You can also share your app code with friends, which I believe will then allow you to see where they are on the piste map and stuff.
Other resorts often have similar apps too - La Plagne for example has the 'Paradiski YUGE' app, which has the same SOS feature.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@N0rthernMonkey, thanks so much, that's really helpful.
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@N0rthernMonkey, That's great, thank you. I'll have a look.
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You know it makes sense.
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@Dr John, There are numbers in the "Les 3 Valleys' app: Courchevel; Meribel; and others for the other resorts which can be called from the app. It also gives your location.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Mon 11-04-22 23:21; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
I know I am complacent about avalanche risk on piste
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I don't think that's "complacent" in a pejorative sense. There's nothing to be gained by skiing around in a state of constant fear of being avalanched. It's like my daughter in law (an excellent, ex-county, swimmer and swimming teacher) who can't enjoy the sea, anywhere, because she's petrified of sharks. And in Cornwall, or Barbados, that's irrational......
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I understand that the resorts are responsible for ensuring that pistes and infrastructure were supposed to be protected from avalanches. It is incredible that La Plagne could issue a press release claiming the two brothers were off piste when there were witnesses to the event. How could they possibly have expected to be believed when there are bound to be multiple enquires, though thankfully not a coroner’s inquest.
What other safety matters can they not be trusted with?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I don't think we've heard the final word on this yet. La Plagne must come up with something....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Don't most, French at least, piste maps have the local emergency telephone number on them?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Weathercam, I think you are correct, and generally area piste maps everywhere carry emergency numbers. You do have to search for them sometimes though. I started adding these numbers onto my phone after advice on here from Rob - rob@rar, not sure of correct name right now. And usually stuck lots of AAAs in front so the numbers popped up quickly, then got moved to the end of contact lists with zzz - luckily never had to use the emergency contact.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Pamski, Rob Rees
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@Weathercam, Yip.
The first 2 contacts in my phone are: 1 Tignes Patrol 1 Val Patrol. Tignes patrol can be contacted on the SOS button on Tignes app (data required).
Interestingly, a French off piste instructor preferred dialling 112, as French phone companies allow roaming on 112, (think that's a thing in most countries) if he was in a notspot for his provider, then the standard landline number would be inaccessible. Clearly for a Brit phone roaming happens on all numbers in France. He was assured that they would contact the relevant patrol. Personally, I would be happier talking to someone who knows the area.
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A useful app is My GPS Location, should, God forbid, anyone has to actually call the rescue services, as time is always critical, giving an accurate location saves time.
Ok it's more relevant for off-piste backcountry, but if you found yourself in a resort calling in an incident it might take a good few mins to explain where you are etc
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Do any rescue services use What3Words?
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In UK they use PhoneFind in those circumstances. Essentially they send you a text message which (with some simple user intervention) sucks your location out of your phone without having to get GCHQ involved. There have been rescues where people get their three words wrong; PhoneFind avoids that issue.
When I've called out rescue (on behalf of others) I've used 112 and had a GPS.
At a resort though I'd probably ride down to the bottom of the lift and talk loudly to the liftie, who will have a radio...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| Do any rescue services use What3Words? |
W3W is language dependent, so it's not a great solution for rescue in another country.
Most (all?) smartphones have a built-in app that will provide co-ordinates (try the compass app), otherwise, various SOS apps have an emergency button, but they do tend to be regional.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
| spyderjon wrote: |
| Do any rescue services use What3Words? |
W3W is language dependent, so it's not a great solution for rescue in another country. .... |
Yes think would add a whole load more complexity to an already tough scenario!
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W3W really needs to be native to native speaker. If you pronounce half of them in English to a French person you are going to have a long wait!
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You know it makes sense.
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| chocksaway wrote: |
| W3W really needs to be native to native speaker. If you pronounce half of them in English to a French person you are going to have a long wait! |
That's not the only problem – anyone tried putting the English words into the French version of the app to see if it goes to the same location? Because the same location will give out 3 very different words in French!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@spyderjon, I know of two incidents when friends tried to use W3W in the UK. Both involved injuries whilst hill-walking. One in the Lakes and one in the Peak District. Both parties tried to use the W3W app. But the emergency services couldn't get a "fix" on them. I think they used a ping from one of their mobiles instead.
Both Mountain Rescue teams advised them to use OS Locate in future. It's a free app with Lat, Long, Altitude and a compass.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| chocksaway wrote: |
| W3W really needs to be native to native speaker. If you pronounce half of them in English to a French person you are going to have a long wait! |
Its not just native speakers - there are numerous documented scenarios where a slight pronunciation change results in matching another valid option that's very close by i.e. within a mile or so, so perfectly plausible but can have massive effects if its in the case of a rescue.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Here's the BBC report on how that 3 word thing isn't great for this sort of usage.
| the bbc wrote: |
"Sarloc and Phone Finder[sic] are tools that have been developed by mountain rescue team members,
and these are used whenever possible to obtain an accurate location. |
Clapham Cave Rescue spend a lot of time chasing lost walkers across the fells. I've chased a few myself.
If you look at their 2021 summary ... you'll find a lot of PhoneFind, and no mention of three-word haiku.
You can see what to expect from PhoneFind here, although don't tell them I said you should rely on it!
The thing is, lost people do not know where they are, so they obviously can't tell you their location.
PhoneFind requires only the phone connexion they must have had to call you.... so obviously it's
more reliable as it bypasses the brain of the victim completely.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| GeorgeVII wrote: |
Both Mountain Rescue teams advised them to use OS Locate in future. It's a free app with Lat, Long, Altitude and a compass. |
^ THIS
W3W is nice idea... However it's also a gimmick & unnecessary translation from grid reference to 3 words. My main objection with W3W is they don't make the database publically available (as they want to monetise it). Plus there are issues with translation and pronunciation discussed above. Get spelling wrong and you be 1000km out.
OS locate is a free ap that can be used to text exact grid reference directly : which is what an emergency team need
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
| Don't most, French at least, piste maps have the local emergency telephone number on them? |
This is also good advice ...
In event of an accident a direct phone call to pisteurs office or mountain rescue can often be quicker / faster than dialing 999 / 112 (and being re-routed). Plus they will be able to identify location if know area. However : you might need some knowledge of local language depending who picks up phone.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Both Mountain Rescue teams advised them to use OS Locate in future. It's a free app with Lat, Long, Altitude and a compass.
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Absolutely. I have a friend who is a member of one of the Peak District teams. Don't ever get him started on W3W...!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I was in La Plagne the week prior (left on that Saturday) and I don't think I saw a black run open all week so seems strange that it would have been open...
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| michaelf wrote: |
| I was in La Plagne the week prior (left on that Saturday) and I don't think I saw a black run open all week so seems strange that it would have been open... |
There was very little snowfall in late feb / most of march as I was out in the Tarentaise at that time and could see how the pistes were siffering from sheer volume of traffic. THere was fresh snowfall after you left, hence some of the closed pistes would have opened
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Interesting thread and novel to actually hear from the people involved. Surprised the skiers haven’t been in touch with La Plagne to get press releases updated/re-issued as they are painted as “incompetent brits” skiing off piste unequipped in Cat 4 conditions.
I am surprised that people don’t know the Pisteurs‘ number is on the lift pass. The first thing I do when I get to a resort is put it in my phone (with a 1 in front so it’s at the top of my contacts).
I would also add that in addition to carrying a transceiver, shovel and probe you need to know how to use them. Looking for a hidden transceiver in your local park isn’t good enough either, bury a sac with a transceiver in some awful tracked lumpy off-piste and get your mate to find it, starting more than 75m away.
Actually going through the search phases in tough snow on skis, using a probe, learning how to shovel etc. are all critical.
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FAQ
