Picking skis - help me make sense of it all!

A snowHead

Hi all, I'm after some advice about skis. Will attempt not to be long winded!

I'm currently away on a 2 month trip in the Aosta valley. At the beginning of the trip i decided to buy rather than rent for all that time, so settled on a pair of Salomon S/max w8 in a 150 length after a couple of hours trial.

My stats are 157 tall, around (ahem) 57 kilos, female intermediate skier (7 weeks on skis prior to this trip since 2015). I would call myself a relatively careful skier, a bit slow, not awful technique but no attempt at carving etc before this trip.

I thought the shorter length and more forgiving nature of a 'lady ski' would suit my stats. But turns out i have no confidence in these skis. Over 5 weeks I've got slower and more careful. I'd put it down to a fall early on, and more general brain weasels - until i swapped skis with my instructor during a lesson. Rossy Pursuit 600 at 170 length, and i immediately felt like i could ski again. I've now gone off and rented a pair of head supershape e-magnum at 163 for the last two weeks (can change them when i fancy), and again i love them, so stable and substantial, and easy to use even though they require quite an effort to flex. Don't get me wrong, I'm not suddenly skiing perfect curves, but both instructor and my other half had very surprised faces when i skied on the pursuit and e-magnum.

So, experienced people - can an easier ski hold you back? I thought a nice little lady ski would make everything fun and easy, but they were not fun at all! The longer, stiffer, slightly wider skis, loads of fun. Zooming as much as i ever zoom! Does it matter if a ski is marketed at men or women - and are womens skis maybe too light for total stability? Is it just that some skis will suit and some won't?

I'm confused. Help, and while you're at it, any recommendations for skis that might suit that i can try before i buy? Thank you!

A snowHead

I am a 168cm tall, 62kg male. I have just had a hugely fun week on some 155 twin tip 86 waist full camber, stiff, sidewall female skis - Salomons. And some 163 rockered 90 waist female piste skis - very stiff, sidewall - Volkls. Skis do not know whether you are male or female. I also ride a lot of male skis, piste and park. They do know how much you weigh, to an extent how tall you are (but a much lesser factor) and how well you ski.

The female VOLKLS which I have (Kenjas) are very stiff skis. My son's male FACTION CD2.0s are like wet spaghetti next to them - but my God does he have the technique to make them sing - I think the key thing with the FACTIONS is that they are laterally stiff but longitudinally very flexible, and that's a good combination.

Yes - cheap, beginner skis can easily be overcome by a powerful and accurate skier. Someone with good technique will be held back by a laterally flexing, lightweight beginners' ski.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I think you are doing exactly the right thing by trying different skis and seeing how you feel about skiing them. Everyone is different and if you find skis that make you feel more confident you will ski better as a result. Hiring can really help you find something that you love (or hate) so keep trying different skis until you are confident that you have something which you would be happy to live with for a while.

I don't know much about the Rossi skis but the Head's are well liked by a lot of people and are very stable. Also, ski length is a personal choice and it's worth trying them in a shorter or longer version and feeling the difference. I don't think that longer skis are necessarily more stable unless you are at a very advanced level and you'll find shorter ones easier to turn.

Good luck and keep surprising your other half!

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@ElzP, see if you can get on the next length down of the Magnums - that may help you assess the length question. Also maybe try the length up. My guess is that the 163 is the sweet spot for you but it's worth checking if you have the opportunity. If you're looking at piste-biased all mountain skis like the Magnums, then most brands will have something good. But since you say you love the Magnums, maybe no need to look further?

As an alternative, try something totally different (e.g. a rockered twintip) to see what a different shape and style feels like. It can be a lot of fun, and very instructive, to try a variety of skis if you have the time and inclination. Then you'll know more for your next purchase, or when renting in future.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@ElzP, there are a few things to look at here. Men’s/women’s skis is largely marketing, but as you are short and light, you will probably find that most men’s skis are too long. Women’s ranges tend to start shorter, so they can be worth looking at for that reason.

I’m not that familiar with the skis you’ve tried, but because you are not heavy, I would try going shorter – 150 to 155cm for a piste or all mountain ski. If you think you want longer skis, take them down a tricky mogul run or through some tight trees and see if you feel the same after.

Your own skis probably are a bit noodly, but where you say you have no confidence in them makes me wonder if it is the tune you are noticing rather than the skis. Have your skis been sharpened and waxed recently? In the conditions we’ve had, I would expect them to need sharpening after a week’s use, so if they haven’t been done for a while they are probably blunter than a blunt thing and there’s no wonder you aren’t getting on with them. A sharp edge can make them feel like new skis.

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Thanks for the advice - much appreciated. Think what I'm getting from this is horses for courses, and keep trying different skis. @valais2, thanks for the confirmation that it clearly doesn't matter if it's mens or womens as long as it does the job!

I'll keep trying various types and see what sticks. In the past I've really enjoyed a wider, shorter ski - in Canada - and a longer ski, according to my trip reports! Laughing

But apparently i also didn't mind a low end of the range volkl flair which makes me think it might just be this specific ski i don't like.

@Scarlet, good point on the tuning but mine have been in every week and a half as it's so icy here - in fact i accidentally shaved my pole with my ski edge the other day. Twisted Evil

I'll definitely try a few shorter lengths of ski to see if something different, in a length i should have, works.

Nothing ruled out then. Laughing

Is this an excuse to go toa ski test?!

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@Klamm Franzer, @mgrolf, I'll keep hiring til i find 'the one' - or n+1 Twisted Evil

The e-magnums are very heavy and quite stiff, the pursuit (think they are from a couple of years ago and not made anymore, not sure what the equivalent is now, possibly react?) were that bit lighter and more poppy and fun, even at the very long length for me, so I'll be looking for something in between. I've never been into ski geekery before so it's really interesting getting the different takes on what might work.

I also have to consider carrying the things, the magnums are a bit of a struggle to hoik around! And for some reason my husband refused to carry my skis, awful. Laughing

After all it is free

I am a smidge talker than you @163 and a little heavier (59-62kg). Also F.

My first pair of skis (but at about your experience point) were Atomic Cloud 11s in a 161 which I loved. I’ve also seen them used as a Gap Course ladies ski. I used mine for about 5 years / 20 weeks by which time I needed to move on to something else.

Of note on the length question…
My last pair of hire skis were also Cloud 11s in a shorter length. ?147 or 153 - can’t remember.
What I do remember is every time I tried to go fast, say along a tracky bit (@ElzP, think the last flat section of blue 15 back to the Leissé chair, or where all the reds join together and go past Hermitage, that sort of place) the shorter skis got a squirrelly and felt like they were going to chuck me off at any moment for no reason.
So definitely worth playing with length within a given ski!

@KNoceros, now that's interesting. I contemplated cloud 9s as i thought they were more my level, and discounted cloud 11 as they are marketed as advanced and I thought they'd be too much for me. I'll try and give them a go!

The word squirrely is perfect, i definitely felt like that on shorter skis - on exactly the bit of run you mention - and on the salomons, a bit squirrely on long turns as well. Very Happy

The heavier, longer skis I'm trying now feel completely different. Hmm, food for thought. What is the cloud 11 like through slush and crud?

Now if i could find a ski that magically eliminated all my technique problems... Laughing

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@ElzP,

I'm similar height and weight, and standard probably - quite cautious on difficult terrain, carving on blue/red slopes.

Atomic 9 were the first pair of skis I bought and were perfect for transitioning from beginner to intermediate. I moved on from them a couple of years ago as they felt too floppy at higher speeds. I think they would be not enough for you so deffo try the 11s

Another one you could try is the Head SuperJoy which is what I have now (have had since 2019). They are quick and agile but I never feel as though they'll not respond or that I'll lose "contact" with them.

I'm 159cm, 53kg and have 153cm skis.

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@Scamper, thanks - the Super Joy will go on the list. I understand there are other 'Joys' as well so will try and seek them out as well. The Super Joy sound very good though - do you find you have confidence in them to be stable doing steeper turns?

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@ElzP, @Scamper, …need to be quite careful here….squirrely on shorter skis and stability on longer on flatter areas can result from poor or less developed technique. If you are not driving the skis hard enough, even marginally in the back seat, then the stability will come from being more of a passenger on longer skis and not from them being inherently ‘better’ for you. Competitors in slalom were going very short for a while and FIS had to introduce minimum lengths to stop the trend. Short does not equate automatically to ‘squirrely’ - this problem really does point to technique. Relying on the inherent qualities in longer skis will likely all add up to problems down the road. Nail technique, get skis of recommended length. I have tended to go shorter over the years, and really worked incredibly hard on technique.

@valais2, understood, and I'm certainly not going to pretend my technique isn't rather lacking!

However, I'd far rather have a ski underfoot that felt good and stable, and keep having lessons to help get the technique right on any given ski. The chatter and wobble on the flat gives me the willies, so hopefully a combination of more stable ski (be that through length, weight, width, whatever works) and continuing instruction might be ok?

As noted above, I'm beginning to wonder if i just genuinely didn't get on with this particular ski. I'll definitely try shorter versions of other skis! My dream ski is the Nordica Santa Anna which i tried it 153, so effectively much shorter with all the rocker. But realistically need a hard pack piste focused ski as that's 90% of my time.

You know it makes sense.

@ElzP, …definitely not ‘whatever works’. That can get bad habits entrenched which will take a great deal of coaching work to unravel. You are at a stage where very careful decision making is critical. For example, as I mentioned, laterally stiff skis are good. Noodly skis are bad, and just getting them longer to get more stiffness is a very bad idea. Wider waist skis will always chatter on the flat if you are not driving the edges in and carving, particularly on the flat. If you look at instructors, they will almost never run skis flat on flat sections - they will be up on their edges.

Do try Volkl female skis - the last few generations are very laterally stiff which is great. They have 85-90 waists, which is excellent on piste in late season wet chop, but have tenacious edge grip on ice. Look at the Kenjas, including the old 2018-on models which had a full titanal top sheet. If you don’t go for them, use the insights into the construction - metal in the top sheet, laterally stiff, sidewall construction, multi-radius side cut. Get the right length and don’t rely on the length to get stability.

At 168cm height and lightweight, I use the 163 Volkls, and you will get a good idea from various excellent videos on YouTube just search ‘Kenja Volkl reviews’ you will see talented female riders talking about the length which is best for them. You could use 163s or 157s, in my view. They are rockered, so ski a bit shorter than actual length…but again, use the videos for advice on length for similar skis other than those specific Volkls.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@ElzP, ah, you're moving firmly into n+1 territory Happy

. Piste skis, yes, wider skis, yes, then n+1... Laughing

A snowHead

@mgrolf, yep feels like that ….but we’ve also seen race stick around 69…but all mountain go to mid 80s and then mid 90s and some of those being very good piste skis….

A snowHead

@valais2, that's seriously good advice, can't pretend I'm not inclined to an 'easy' option both through laziness and because I've had quite an annoyingly bad time for the last few weeks. Definitely don't want to ingrain bad habits, and definitely need to work on my technique, so will try some skis with those specs as you advise. Thank you for taking the time to explain.

@mgrolf, n+1 + maybe some nordic skis for full quiver? Laughing

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@mgrolf, …but of course I’d recommend n+1. I have no idea how many skis we have. Seriously.

But I do know that at the beginning of this season I got some very good Factions youth CT 2.0s for the Grom for 95.00; some excellent Scott Scrappers junior 162 for 40.00 etc etc…and he nicked some of my Scott Black Majics - and loved them on hard pack and hated them on chop. My experience too….

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@ElzP, …it’s not punitive to have loads of skis because they circulate cheaply if you know what you are looking for. More punitive is travelling with them, of course….depending on how sneaky you can be in getting more than one pair of skis in a bag…..two pairs in a snowboarding bag seems to do the trick….

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@valais2, sly! Laughing

I'd never have thought of that!

Given my current indecision and cluelessness I'll probably stick to renting and swapping for a while - currently reading about longitudinal vs lateral stiffness in an effort to understand more!

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I have the nordica Santa ana’s - bought after the snowHeads test at Hemel Hempstead a couple of years ago. Sadly only skied on them for three weeks due to covid but I love them.

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@ElzP, one of the best things I've done in the past 5 years, skiing wise, was to get a pair of pure piste skis. Combined with lots of instruction, they have really helped my technique - it is so much easier to get ~70mm underfoot skis on edge, and then to develop more performance, compared to 90mm+ skis. Time spent on piste is much more fun, too, on skis that are optimised for it. That's in comparison to my Head Kore 93s, which are pretty decent on piste (for what are supposedly freeride-biased all mountain ish skis). If I went back in time now, I'd buy the piste skis first and wider skis second.

After all it is free

@mgrolf, ...I’m going to agree with you...yes, piste skis are fun...and good for developing technique on nicely groomed pistes. But (and you knew a ‘but’ was coming) I have had a good experience with 86mm wide, sidewall skis. These are really good when things get sloppy, or when I hit chop. They are loads easier on my knees...and I like that. I couldn’t really get my head around this. After all, the energy coming through a ski and up my leg is the same in quantity whether it comes up through a large surface area (86 wide ski) or a smaller surface area (70mm wide ski). Or is it? For sure they feel totally different when I go over a lump and hit an icy piste surface. On the 70mm = clunk...Ow! But on the 86mm much softer and easier on impact. The larger area can decrease the peak of energy transmission. The larger ski mass can dissipate more energy. I am carving on these 86mm side skis with more confidence than my 70mm piste skis. The 86cm skis float better in slop and climb bumps and slop piles rather than crashing through them. I can carve on them aggressively and in almost exactly the same manner as I carve on my 70mm skis.

@valais2, i suspect the difference is in our relative ability levels. I know I ski my wider skis much better now, and a lot of that I ascribe to improved feel and technique that I've developed on narrower skis. However I also know that I can't drive them as effectively on piste - I start to find the limits of grip, and i know that those limits are actually my limits because I'm not developing as much edge angle or bending the skis as effectively. It's not the skis that are the problem! Give me another couple of years with multiple weeks on snow and lots of lessons, and I may well be on the same page as you.

Meanwhile, I've also realised that I need skis that make 30+ cm of fresh snow (even more) fun, so n+1 comes back into play Laughing

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@mgrolf, …I posted this on another thread…it’s incredibly helpful for technique and knowing exactly what we should be doing….

http://youtube.com/v/CQlatm6yAzQ

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@LadyDi, such nice skis! Do you use them mainly on or off piste?

@mgrolf, @valais2, interesting chat about which type of ski and skill level. I know I loved the Santa Ana's mainly because they are really easy to slide around on or off piste, and sliding around was my skill level. Now I'm wanting to improve on-piste technique and get out of the sliding around habit (some of the time!), and given I spend most time on piste, it feels like a dedicated ski for that is needed. Have a feeling it would need more skill than I have to make the wider ski a good learning tool! That said, I'll still give it a go when I have the chance. Very Happy

That video just makes me feel inadequate. NehNeh

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My wife skis these in a 164 and loves them all over the mountain. Says they are confidence inspiring. And they are quite light. She’s a bit taller than you

https://www.sport-conrad.com/en/products/kaestle/fx-96-sc.html?channable=40ec4069640037303030303931312d313536a5&gclid=CjwKCAjwrfCRBhAXEiwAnkmKmfsNm7AUftt9_2UlWLTTSAYUny0dh0MQaUHew1nVY9t3x_fhrlsCkxoC1uIQAvD_BwE

@BobinCH, they are very beautiful! I'll see if i can hunt a pair out to try, doubt they come up much to rent!

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@ElzP, @BobinCH, …well done Bob didn’t think about Kastles. And good to see your partner having a ball. They have a great range of different waist widths and are fantastically torsionally stiff sidewall skis …

ElzP they are on hire in quite a few Austrian resorts, interestingly. They would be very good to play with. If you buy secondhand on ebay, choose carefully, some of the ex hire skis are ‘skied out’, with little camber remaining.

A snowHead

Ooooh lovely….

Too long for you but this is the sort of thing. Slap on some Wardens or Attacs……

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/154876828142?_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item240f60d9ee:g:b3UAAOSwIMth5-9t&amdata=enc%3AAQAGAAAA4HNg8dVeWVif28JJFAD9z4S5ZHAKX3zE5nuLENAheOGnFup9N%2BogYRhukx7QbBWKdpOBdl9J7g5bM%2Fzr8ROe1b0M%2B72NcHZG7Kf2HsDgMaGzOlk5Vp4LLbo6OQO0T%2FFXQ13k4DDKpbvkKvAIeCgieGzj33wDpGgBDVj2gX%2BYIJUKgDpRhDek9TJ7xjlbY6hKo2VogbNGWbfBsNcbWuvr767jk8AV%2BwhqAqfTvBtNmTI2Uy3%2Fo54PLIBBPKp%2FoKB%2FfsYQLBdQ73mVGiNJ5jIE%2FBsGhG73ANfkJ8qGZJz1Svx2%7Ctkp%3ABFBM4v-fufdf

A snowHead

@BobinCH, we've not had many days like that! Your video reminds me exactly why i want to get better at this skiing lark.

@valais2, good knowledge on the hire skis! I saw that they have a permanent testing place in Soelden - might be fun for an early season jaunt, they have Kastle as well as Volkl and Fischer which I'm keen to try again, had some great fischer all mountain skis on hire once.

A note on the e-magnum now I've skied them a couple of times - they are i think a bit too longitudinally stff for me, i have to work quite (ok, very!!) hard to get a flex and edge, though much better on my good turn. More smear - edge - smear on my bad turn. However, they really reward when i do the work, and feel super controlled - i can keep a constant turn shape and speed on different gradients though still rather slidy on the steeper sections (my technique at fault there!) Short turns possible but i have to work. Medium turns on a nice pitch, lovely. The only time they want to pop me off is in slushy bumpy bits, i don't have the power to charge through it so get thrown a bit forward. I suspect the length is also at play here, and as others have said, a bit shorter would be more easily maneuverable.

Got a lesson on them tomorrow so will see what my ski guru says. But am quite pleased that i can get something out of them, and they are good fun despite the effort. Very Happy

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Women's skis can often be lighter, with a softer flex, narrower, shorter lengths, tighter turn radius and have a more forward mounting point....and some are the same as the Men's version with a different coat of paint.

It looks like you prefer a longer length - so maybe around 160 would be ideal - and something not too soft, short or squirrelly.

If you like the Magnums, you should see if you can try some SuperJoys as suggested above.

As you liked Rossignol and if wanting to try something wider - Experience W86 Basalt.

I also suspect that you are a better skier than you think you are.

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@Old Fartbag, thanks for the Rossy recommendation!

I suspect my body knows how to ski and my head doesn't - had an experience last week of skiing the same run twice, first time in cloud with very little visibility, fine. Second time in perfect vis, awful, completely freaked out. If i can teach my head not to tell my body i can't do it, I'll probably improve a lot! That's why i keep having lessons every time, someone else is doing the thinking. At present i have every skiing defensively bad habit going! snowHead

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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@ElzP, …I went for quite a few years without coaching, due to protracted care of very small ones. They developed a lot in skiing. I didn’t. There was just no time to do drills and learning for myself.

Then…

I found that going VERY slowly with the Grom (ValaisGrom2) was doing good things to my general control.

Then…

Some coaching on steeps with ‘Big Sasha’ from SMS. That was good for edge work.
A whole day with Alex from SMS. That sorted shoulder position particularly mimicking slope angle with shoulders.
A year working hard on the instructions from Alex.

Then…

The Grom (who by now has some of the best carving technique I have seen outside the World Cup circuit) emphasised that I was looking too frequently at my skis. ‘It screws your balance (weight distribution) and then everything else is sh++t’ - which is an interesting way of putting it. Turns out that looking up, applying Alex’s rules on shoulders, and looking ahead, really brought everything together - no more A framing, loads more edge grip, better split of force between uphill and downhill ski. Elevens everywhere.

Coaching really helps, even after 30 years on the hill.

After all it is free

@viv, the psychological dimension you imply in 1 is extremely important. Described by some as ‘mindset’, the motivational context is different - at an unconscious level, the goals and context are framed differently.

With an instructor the framing is:

- willing commitment and effort to improve
- open reception of all comments, whether critical or constructive
- goal orientation

With a partner the cognition is dominated by

- remembering the didn’t clean the fridge last week
- they owe you for the last meal
- why they think their skiing is brilliant and yours is sh+++t

And I am being serious - that really does make a difference.
Clear your mind young Skywalker….feel the Force

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Picking skis - help me make sense of it all!

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