 Poster: A snowHead
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Here is an excerpt from the Glenshee website report for today, Tuesday 8th March ‘22 at 15.30 p.m.
“For Tuesday 8th March. -2C Moderate Southerly winds high cloud.
We will have 13 lifts operating tomorrow. Skiing was excellent again today with spring snow conditions. Thining in places.”
Well I was there today from 8 a.m. to 9.30 a.m. and it was so windy it was sometimes hard to stand or walk never mind ski. The gravel in the car park was clattering against my car, making me concerned that the paint would be damaged by the blasting.
Having booked online as they suggest rather than pay on arrival and risk being turned away if they have to limit numbers, I was unable to get a refund of my money from the ticket office or the managing director to whom I was referred. They did not formally close the ski area and so felt they were absolved from any need to refund anyone not prepared to suffer the horrible wind conditions. I am an outdoor sort of person living in Pitlochry, have skied at Glenshee on and off since the 1960’s and on my third round of the Munros. I know about bad conditions.
This is very poor customer relations. I am out of pocket by £21 for today and £21 for Friday 25th Feb ‘22 when they had their first decent ski day but were totally overwhelmed by the numbers of people they allowed in. I waited at the snow gates for two hours and a further three quarters of an hour queueing to convert my online booking to a lift pass…..I never came near to the head of the queue and gave up, especially as there were only a handful of lifts going for a massive number of skiers.
This is unacceptable practice and people should be aware of this.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| JohnU wrote: |
I was unable to get a refund of my money from the ticket office or the managing director to whom I was referred. They did not formally close the ski area and so felt they were absolved from any need to refund anyone not prepared to suffer the horrible wind conditions. I am an outdoor sort of person living in Pitlochry, have skied at Glenshee on and off since the 1960’s and on my third round of the Munros. I know about bad conditions.
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^ you wanted a refund because it was a bit windy ? 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Haggis_Trap, googling suggests winds were 50mph+
@JohnU, did you not check the weather forecast?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I'm confused. Were the lifts running?
If so Rule 5.
If not then yep they should follow rules 1
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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And TBH, why on earth were you looking at their weather forecast. It's obvious you should look at WH, Mwis or something else for that.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I mean @JohnU, you have a point - on the Beaufort wind force scale, a moderate wind (says breeze) is 13-18mph whereas it sounds like it was "Strong Gale" - 47-54mph.
But I would have thought a quick look at a decent weather app would tell you that - as @TheGeneralist, points out.
It doesn't help but I was in Tignes once when it was full on blizzard. They had a couple of lifts at the bottom open but really it wasn't skiable weather. I asked for a refund for the day but had no joy. Just one of those things. I think I've 2 and a couple of half days that were unskiable in 30 years of skiing.
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If there are lifts open, I think it's unreasonable to expect a refund.
Did you check the weather forecast before you decided to book the ticket? Winterhighland suggested 25 mph winds gusting 40mph for Glenshee today which is breezy but not enough to close all the lifts.
The other day when they were overwhelmed is a different situation and I would have hoped to get a refund then.
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Yeah it was forecast today and Cairngorm was shut for example.
For context I often did the weather report for Mt Hutt while i was sitting in the bath having never even looked outside 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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It was wild today. Skiing downhill on Butcharts was a struggle. That said, with your body at the right angle it was a cracking sail to traverse for a whilst Good craik as usual but not skiing and i would tend to agree it would be fair for those pre-booked to receive a refund - or perhaps better a voucher for another day?
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I got my refund this evening for the fiasco on 25th. February.
We’ll see what happens about the requested but refused refund for the abominable weather today. I have sent a stiff email requesting a refund of my online booking and you will all be able to read it if I don’t get it.
It’s juicy!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| efsefs wrote: |
| It was wild today. Skiing downhill on Butcharts was a struggle. That said, with your body at the right angle it was a cracking sail to traverse for a whilst Good craik as usual but not skiing and i would tend to agree it would be fair for those pre-booked to receive a refund - or perhaps better a voucher for another day? |
Voucher, you must be joking. Could easily be the last of the skiing at Glenshee this year.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@JohnU, Sorry but you are full of it. My 11 year old kid was skiing with his school at Glenshee yesterday, all day. He said conditions were not great and snow not the best. Lots of runs open, however, they found some fun jumps and had a good day. They are back again today. Many of us have skied in much worse conditions in Scotland, and anyone who regularly skis Glenshee would have no problem with the conditions yesterday. You bought a ticket, Glenshee was open with a reasonable number of lifts open, the weather forecast was accurate, why on earth would you expect a refund just because you chose not to ski?
The fact that a bunch of 10 - 12 year olds managed to have a good day out on the same day says it all.
Your comment about the gravel in the car park is just bizarre, what did you expect?
Your claim to be an "outdoor sort of person" who knows what bad conditions are like in Scotland does not ring true at all. Any such person would both check the weather forecast and be able to handle the conditions in effect yesterday.
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| JohnU wrote: |
I got my refund this evening for the fiasco on 25th. February.
We’ll see what happens about the requested but refused refund for the abominable weather today. I have sent a stiff email requesting a refund of my online booking and you will all be able to read it if I don’t get it.
It’s juicy! |
Oh my, they must be quaking in their boots to get a "stiff" email from you. And I am sure the threat of you publishing it here (only) if you don't get what you want will definitely scare them into submission. I look forward to seeing it if only for comedic value.
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You know it makes sense.
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| zikomo wrote: |
@JohnU, Sorry but you are full of it. My 11 year old kid was skiing with his school at Glenshee yesterday, all day. He said conditions were not great and snow not the best. Lots of runs open, however, they found some fun jumps and had a good day. They are back again today. Many of us have skied in much worse conditions in Scotland, and anyone who regularly skis Glenshee would have no problem with the conditions yesterday. You bought a ticket, Glenshee was open with a reasonable number of lifts open, the weather forecast was accurate, why on earth would you expect a refund just because you chose not to ski?
The fact that a bunch of 10 - 12 year olds managed to have a good day out on the same day says it all.
Your comment about the gravel in the car park is just bizarre, what did you expect?
Your claim to be an "outdoor sort of person" who knows what bad conditions are like in Scotland does not ring true at all. Any such person would both check the weather forecast and be able to handle the conditions in effect yesterday. |
Is that you, managing director of Glenshee Snowsports Centre?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| JohnU wrote: |
We’ll see what happens about the requested but refused refund for the abominable weather today. I have sent a stiff email requesting a refund of my online booking and you will all be able to read it if I don’t get it.
It’s juicy! |
Please post stiff email here (so we can laugh at you)
You want a refund because it was a touch breezy?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| JohnU wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
@JohnU, Sorry but you are full of it. My 11 year old kid was skiing with his school at Glenshee yesterday, all day. He said conditions were not great and snow not the best. Lots of runs open, however, they found some fun jumps and had a good day. They are back again today. Many of us have skied in much worse conditions in Scotland, and anyone who regularly skis Glenshee would have no problem with the conditions yesterday. You bought a ticket, Glenshee was open with a reasonable number of lifts open, the weather forecast was accurate, why on earth would you expect a refund just because you chose not to ski?
The fact that a bunch of 10 - 12 year olds managed to have a good day out on the same day says it all.
Your comment about the gravel in the car park is just bizarre, what did you expect?
Your claim to be an "outdoor sort of person" who knows what bad conditions are like in Scotland does not ring true at all. Any such person would both check the weather forecast and be able to handle the conditions in effect yesterday. |
Is that you, managing director of Glenshee Snowsports Centre? |
Nope. Just a person who lives in Scotland, actually does do a lot of outdoors stuff, and skis a lot both abroad and here when possible. And like any other outdoor type here, I know how to read a weather forecast. And whose 11 year old kid spent all day at Glenshee yesterday (school bus left at 7AM so they would have arrived at a similar time to you).
I would, however, love to see your "stiff" email. Maybe that would convince us all of your case.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| zikomo wrote: |
@JohnU, Sorry but you are full of it. My 11 year old kid was skiing with his school at Glenshee yesterday, all day. He said conditions were not great and snow not the best. Lots of runs open, however, they found some fun jumps and had a good day. They are back again today. Many of us have skied in much worse conditions in Scotland, and anyone who regularly skis Glenshee would have no problem with the conditions yesterday. You bought a ticket, Glenshee was open with a reasonable number of lifts open, the weather forecast was accurate, why on earth would you expect a refund just because you chose not to ski?
The fact that a bunch of 10 - 12 year olds managed to have a good day out on the same day says it all.
Your comment about the gravel in the car park is just bizarre, what did you expect?
Your claim to be an "outdoor sort of person" who knows what bad conditions are like in Scotland does not ring true at all. Any such person would both check the weather forecast and be able to handle the conditions in effect yesterday. |
I protest sir….
I am on my third round of the Munros. I am Munroist number 698, year 1989 when I completed my first round of the Munros and all the subtops. I have personally known six people who have died mostly walking outdoors.
I first skied at Glenshee in 1963 age 12 and have skied on and off in Scotland, France, Austria, and Italy. I was rescued from 10000 metres by sledge and single guide in Val Thoren four years ago following a fractured fibula after skiing over a crag on a poorly maintained red piste.
So don’t tell me I’m not an outdoorsman, ars#hole.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| JohnU wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
@JohnU, Sorry but you are full of it. My 11 year old kid was skiing with his school at Glenshee yesterday, all day. He said conditions were not great and snow not the best. Lots of runs open, however, they found some fun jumps and had a good day. They are back again today. Many of us have skied in much worse conditions in Scotland, and anyone who regularly skis Glenshee would have no problem with the conditions yesterday. You bought a ticket, Glenshee was open with a reasonable number of lifts open, the weather forecast was accurate, why on earth would you expect a refund just because you chose not to ski?
The fact that a bunch of 10 - 12 year olds managed to have a good day out on the same day says it all.
Your comment about the gravel in the car park is just bizarre, what did you expect?
Your claim to be an "outdoor sort of person" who knows what bad conditions are like in Scotland does not ring true at all. Any such person would both check the weather forecast and be able to handle the conditions in effect yesterday. |
I protest sir….
I am on my third round of the Munros. I am Munroist number 698, year 1989 when I completed my first round of the Munros and all the subtops. I have personally known six people who have died mostly walking outdoors.
I first skied at Glenshee in 1963 age 12 and have skied on and off in Scotland, France, Austria, and Italy. I was rescued from 10000 feet by sledge and single guide in Val Thoren four years ago following a fractured fibula after skiing over a crag on a poorly maintained red piste.
So don’t tell me I’m not an outdoorsman, ars#hole. |
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| JohnU wrote: |
| zikomo wrote: |
@JohnU, Sorry but you are full of it. My 11 year old kid was skiing with his school at Glenshee yesterday, all day. He said conditions were not great and snow not the best. Lots of runs open, however, they found some fun jumps and had a good day. They are back again today. Many of us have skied in much worse conditions in Scotland, and anyone who regularly skis Glenshee would have no problem with the conditions yesterday. You bought a ticket, Glenshee was open with a reasonable number of lifts open, the weather forecast was accurate, why on earth would you expect a refund just because you chose not to ski?
The fact that a bunch of 10 - 12 year olds managed to have a good day out on the same day says it all.
Your comment about the gravel in the car park is just bizarre, what did you expect?
Your claim to be an "outdoor sort of person" who knows what bad conditions are like in Scotland does not ring true at all. Any such person would both check the weather forecast and be able to handle the conditions in effect yesterday. |
I protest sir….
I am on my third round of the Munros. I am Munroist number 698, year 1989 when I completed my first round of the Munros and all the subtops. I have personally known six people who have died mostly walking outdoors.
I first skied at Glenshee in 1963 age 12 and have skied on and off in Scotland, France, Austria, and Italy. I was rescued from 10000 feet by sledge and single guide in Val Thoren four years ago following a fractured fibula after skiing over a crag on a poorly maintained red piste.
So don’t tell me I’m not an outdoorsman, ars#hole. |
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@JohnU, Well you are not coming across with a great deal of credibility:
1. You clearly did not check any appropriate weather forecast before heading to Glenshee. That is the most basic step for anyone doing anything in Scottish mountains
2. You demanded a refund when Glenshee was largely open. It is common practice for ski areas to only offer lift pass refunds when the entire lift system is closed, anyone who regularly skis would know this (and have experienced ski areas keeping one or two lifts open in bad weather for this reason).
3. As I said a bunch of 10 - 12 year olds with their teachers and instructors managed a full day at Glenshee yesterday, when you clearly felt it was un-skiable.
The vast majority of Monros in fair weather are an easy walk. There are a few more challenging ones, where knowing the weather conditions is vital for sure. My kids have bagged a huge number of them, although don't see it is bagging more as a nice walk. I don't think you are proving much because you have bagged the monros, but I do hope that you carefully check the weather before venturing out.
I do not understand the relevance to being an outdoorsman of being rescued after falling off a piste, nor that is was by sledge and single guide. But that is a nasty injury and I hope you recovered well.
I am very sad to hear that you have lost acquaintances who have died mostly walking outdoors. My condolences.
As I said - maybe showing the email you sent to Glenshee would help give some proper context. What is the reluctance to share it?
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Yes, I saw the kids from Morrisons Academy in Crieff exit their minibus and cowering downwind of it. I also spoke to the teacher with them who did not appear to be skiing.
Morrisons in the renowned dumping ground for children of over entitled narcissists in Scotland. No doubt your kids were too scared of you to tell you the truth about the lack of joy they experienced yesterday at Glenshee.
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Wow, this degenerated quickly. I'm in the camp of "lifts open no refund". Bit of a bummer, but that's how it is, and not just in Scotland. Better luck next time.
And as mentioned luck can be significantly improved by checking MWIS or MetOffice mountain forecast. Admittedly trickeier this year with the pre-book thing, but they are normally fairly accurate 2 or 3 days out. The weather is similar weather today, and MWIS are saying the below...
| Quote: |
Effect Of The Wind On You?
Difficult/very difficult conditions with severe wind chill/buffeting. Sudden ferocious gusts running downslope. Easing markedly later afternoon.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| JohnU wrote: |
I protest sir….
I am on my third round of the Munros. I am Munroist number 698, year 1989 when I completed my first round of the Munros and all the subtops. I have personally known six people who have died mostly walking outdoors. a fractured fibula after skiing over a crag on a poorly maintained red piste. |
Nice CV.
Sadly no one gives a f--k
Regards, munroist #6453 (2018)
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| JohnU wrote: |
Morrisons in the renowned dumping ground for children of over entitled narcissists in Scotland. No doubt your kids were too scared of you to tell you the truth about the lack of joy they experienced yesterday at Glenshee. |
I think whatever credibility or sympathy you were getting on here may have just drifted off on a light highlands breeze.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| JohnU wrote: |
Yes, I saw the kids from Morrisons Academy in Crieff exit their minibus and cowering downwind of it. I also spoke to the teacher with them who did not appear to be skiing.
Morrisons in the renowned dumping ground for children of over entitled narcissists in Scotland. No doubt your kids were too scared of you to tell you the truth about the lack of joy they experienced yesterday at Glenshee. |
Still avoiding sharing your stiff email to Glenshee I see. I really wish you would, and then maybe we would better understand you.
You have called me an a***hole, insulted the parents and children of an entire school, and then somehow contrived to suggest I am a bad parent. I do not accept that from anyone, least of all someone like you.
As a matter of fact you have no idea at all whether my 4 children attend Morrison's Academy, as I certainly made no such indication. But I find your animosity to that school both disturbing and unpleasant. I suspect you actually know nothing about it at all, and merely have a deep-seated jealousy. You would be better served to be content with what you have achieved in life rather than having a massive chip on your shoulder that others can afford private education.
My four lovely children are accomplished outdoors, confident and robust. I know that you can't teach an old dog new tricks, but it sounds like you could learn a great deal from them in these regards. The youngest is actually more worrying in his lack of fear so your assertion that he would be afraid to tell me about any "lack of joy" is laughable. He had a full day of skiing. He told me conditions were not great but he had a good day anyway.
The fact remains that you turned up for a day in the Scottish mountains without having checked the weather. You then demanded a refund of your lift pass when the ski area was open. You then came here and ranted about how unreasonable it was that there were high winds, and the gravel in the car park might scratch your car, and how unfair it was that the ski area did not refund your pass because you chose not to ski. Then threatened to share a stiff email here if Glenshee did not do what you wanted. On a day when a bunch of wee kids managed a full day with no problems. And you then proceeded to tell us all what a great and experienced outdoorsman you are because you have bagged some monros, were rescued after falling off a piste (with sledge and singe rescuer) and that you know 6 people who have died outdoors (mostly while walking). All of which are irrelevant, and the last of which is really disturbing. What sort of person would use the deaths of others to try and increase their personal credibility?
You have, rightly, been challenged on your expectations of Glenshee. You have not actually responded to any of those challenges. I have been factual and reasonable in my challenges and rather than responding to those challenges you have tried to be personally insulting.
I hope that you have the maturity to reflect on what you have written whilst cowering (a better use of that word I feel) behind a veil of anonymity, accept you have been unpleasant and unreasonable, apologise and withdraw.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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May I suggest that you are projecting your own personality onto me.
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@JohnU, One last attempt to be reasonable with you. Can you actually try and respond to what is written?
1. Did you check the weather forecast before you went to Glenshee? And by that I mean a proper source for mountain weather, as everyone knows is an absolute must when planning a day in the Scottish mountains.
2. Have you skied enough to be aware that pretty much all ski areas in the world will only refund lift tickets if all lifts are closed?
3. Do you accept that it is reasonable to conclude that someone who did not check the weather forecast before heading for the mountains, is surprised that a ski area with open lifts refused a refund when a customer chose not to ski, and viewed an area as un-skiable when others (*including a bunch of wee kids) managed just fine might not be an experienced or competent outdoors sort of person? Read this carefully. I am not suggesting that you not competent, just that given what you wrote would it be reasonable to assume you were not?
4. Can you explain the relevance of you statement "I have personally known six people who have died mostly walking outdoors." as it relates to your capability as an outdoorsman? On reflection do you think you should have avoided referring to the deaths of others in this way when trying to make a point about your own competence?
5. Do you not think that referring to a school as "the renowned dumping ground for children of over entitled narcissists in Scotland." is insulting in the extreme, unpleasant and suggestive of a bit of a chip on the shoulder?
6. Do you really think it is a good idea to make disparaging remarks about either a child, or parenting skills, where you have no connection to or knowledge of the individuals?
Where I get things wrong (as I do often) I am more than happy to admit it and apologise. My comment about being self-entitled and from the shires was unpleasant and I apologise. But I do wonder if your reaction so far has been because I am so close to the mark.
Finally would you have said any of these things to my face? Or is it only when hiding behind the keyboard that you are like this?
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You know it makes sense.
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@zikomo, give it up, @JohnU, is an old eccentric who skis on blades and doesn't want to be taught anything (see posting history).
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Layne, I did have a look at his posting history, which is amusing. But worth one last attempt to be reasonable and keep it factual, no least as it is a village up here in many ways!
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Poster: A snowHead
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Gaslighting now!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@JohnU, Why not simply respond to the questions I asked? That would be the rational thing to do. I have attempted to be as reasonable as possible.
And we still want to see your stiff email for context.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You seem to be obsessed with this juicy email.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@JohnU, Not really. I would however like you to respond to my very reasonable questions. What is the reason you are ignoring them?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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This thread is comedy gold.
| JohnU wrote: |
So don’t tell me I’m not an ars#hole, outdoorsman. |
We didn't.. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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And so … slam dunk, to zikomo.
An early and simple - ‘…hmmm perhaps I should have checked the meteo…’ from JohnU would have sufficed.
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| JohnU wrote: |
I was rescued from 10000 metres by sledge and single guide in Val Thoren four years ago following a fractured fibula after skiing over a crag on a poorly maintained red piste.
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Does anyone know where the fabled red piste at 10000 metres in Val Thorens is? Must be the highest piste in the world. Or in cloud cuckoo land 7000 metres above the highest peak there?
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| zikomo wrote: |
| JohnU wrote: |
I was rescued from 10000 metres by sledge and single guide in Val Thoren four years ago following a fractured fibula after skiing over a crag on a poorly maintained red piste.
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Does anyone know where the fabled red piste at 10000 metres in Val Thorens is? Must be the highest piste in the world. Or in cloud cuckoo land 7000 metres above the highest peak there? |
@JohnU, Can you enlighten us?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@valais2, And it wasn't that bad anyway. For Scotland!
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@zikomo, …well hats off to your Grom. When asked why we don’t ski in Scotland, we give feeble Southern excuses, knowing that death balls, zero viz and eyeball-numbing winds are considered a nice day out up there.
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FAQ
on the screen, and went home a day early. Didn't see the point in bothering to drive to the mountain. 
