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EasyJet > Genava NON Vaccinated (3), snowHeads ski forum
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EasyJet > Genava NON Vaccinated

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
yebbut it's still against the rules just that proof of recovery is being accepted at a different airport.....
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Friend of mine just went to Austria (for transit) with his “recovered” teens. Still had a big delay and standoff at checkin - a call-the-manager moment at LHR and the acceptability of the recovery letter for teens was very clearly explained on FCDO and Austrian sites.

Your daughter might get in but I really wouldn’t be so smug and certain unless you have the same clear advice rather than an anecdote. Airline practice and even border practice varies all the time. Just because the rules weren’t applied once doesn’t mean they won’t be ever again.


Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Fri 11-03-22 18:59; edited 1 time in total
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zikomo wrote:
@orange, You clearly have absolutely no idea how vaccines work, and what the real effect of vaccination against Covid is.


No you are absolutely right I don’t. I do listen to wife though as she’s a vaccinologist. I’d hope she has some sort of a clue Very Happy
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@interpaul, OK so you have found a way to circumvent the rules and are going to risk it.

The Swiss will not check everyone, rather relying on the general honesty of most people and spot checks. The consequences of being caught are quite severe but the chances are probably low.

You are clearly a dishonest person. And logic also defeats you. If you are happy encouraging young adults to not accept the consequences of their decisions that is on you. I am sure all those attributes have taken you far in life.
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Zikomo, another you've Be Nice please! off
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@interpaul - having flown with easyJet to Geneva this week, the Swissport staff at Birmingham Airport were being very thorough in checking NHS Travel Passports both at check-in / bag drop and at the gate.

On the way back, Swissport staff were being very thorough about checking NHS Travel Passports and Passenger Locator Forms. Some didn't get checked at bag drop but those were then being checked at the gate.

There was a reasonable amount of panicking going on and at least one woman in tears when it looked like she wouldn't be getting on the (already delayed) flight because she couldn't access the PLF she had completed.

I had to leave her having pointed out the link in the email she'd received that would hopefully allow her to download it. I think I saw her at baggage claim, but not the couple who were trying and failing to access their travel passports.
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That's why I advocate carrying hard copies on the way out. Much easier than getting into a blind panic at check in or gate.
Admittedly, not so easy on the way back, but the rules for returning to your home Country are always easier.

Most of the a/m documents will still be valid. Only the Plf could be a problem.
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interpaul wrote:
Garfield wrote:
interpaul wrote:
She is unvaccinated - just doesn't want it.

I'm trying very hard to resist being a keyboard warrior rolling eyes

Sorry no help to your question

The rest of our family are vaccinated, both her brothers are as well.

It is her choice, we respect that and so should you!

@interpaul
Can you clarify something for me, please?

You would like others to respect your daughter's desire not to be vaccinated?

But you don't wish to respect Switzerland's desire not to currently allow non-vaccinated tourists from the UK to enter?

Not trying to put words in your mouth, just trying to clarify that point.
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brianatab wrote:
That's why I advocate carrying hard copies on the way out. Much easier than getting into a blind panic at check in or gate.
Admittedly, not so easy on the way back, but the rules for returning to your home Country are always easier.

Most of the a/m documents will still be valid. Only the Plf could be a problem.

I was surprised Swissport / easyJet staff were interested in seeing NHS Vaccination stuff for flight home today, because I didn't think being vaccinated was a requirement for returning to UK for UK nationals.

But I guess it's just easier to ask to see all of everyone's paperwork than to specify it only applying to certain nationalities.
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@jebroni3_16, don’t unvaxxed still have to take a test before returning? So if the traveller isn’t vaccinated then that result has to be checked too.
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Whitegoldsbrother wrote:
Zikomo, another you've off


Sorry but dishonesty does trigger me. I can’t help it and don’t really want to tbh. Did I miss something else, or have I been needlessly offensive? Happy to take the feedback if so!
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Quote:

Sorry but dishonesty does trigger me. I can’t help it and don’t really want to tbh. Did I miss something else, or have I been needlessly offensive? Happy to take the feedback if so!


Everything you've said is reasonable. OP is setting a terrible example for his daughter of being a selfish and entitled prick, and throwing your toys out the pram when you can't have everything your way. Kinda hope the swiss do check their travel documents, and they get arrested and deported for attempting to enter illegally, would give them the kick up the a*se they clearly need.

(excuse my french)
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Just as a quick comment, flew EDI-GVA on Thursday (10th). Easyjet agents at bag drop were checking verbally vaxx status.

Oddly, for that flight, on that day they didn't check our certs as we boarded. They had 3 weeks earlier.

Although a very busy flight with a 10 minute advanced departure they may have been taking a little risk that as they'd sent a deluge of emails explaining that adults had to be fully vaccinated and that it was one's own responsibility if that wasn't the case they might get away with not being held liable.

Certainly the Swiss, were one to be found out - and I don't know what 3rd country checks were being made on arrival as I go thru the EU gates - would not be shy in demonstrating their displeasure.
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 You know it makes sense.
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The other thing to consider is the fact that his daughter will not have a green pass, and will therefore not be allowed in any restaurants or bars for the duration. Not sure if the Hotels are checking status. With a bit of luck, if she gets into the Country, then they will refuse to allow her to check in.

Well' we'll find out later how he got on. If he got away with it, no doubt he will be back here bragging about it. If he doesn't then I suspect he'll be very quiet.

He's still then got to get her back. Hopefully, CH will pick up on it and refuse boarding on the return flight.

Either way, I think he's a complete ar*ehole for even considering it.
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Well, of course, this would all be simpler if the airlines used the same process that Eurotunnel does, and simply required you to upload your travel documents ahead of travel. Then all they'd need is to verify you are actually who you claim to be, using your passport. It would displace the stress of having to produce documentation on the day of travel, ensure everyone was being treated consistently, and minimise the time it takes to check in and board.

+1 for carrying paper versions of everything as just being easier than faffing-around with mobiles and Internet connectivity. And for our return trip, our French hotel was entirely happy to print out our PLFs for us.
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@brianatab, wasn't the green pass requirement lifted in Switzerland?
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@sugarmoma666, Not sure, just expressing thoughts.
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FWIW I flew Edinburgh to Geneva 2 weeks ago and back the following week, my vaccination status was checked at both airports
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Quote:

@brianatab, wasn't the green pass requirement lifted in Switzerland?


Yes it is. COVID seems pretty rife, a good percentage of those on our trip ended up getting it
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Quote:

Well' we'll find out later how he got on. If he got away with it, no doubt he will be back here bragging about it. If he doesn't then I suspect he'll be very quiet


I doubt it, he'll be slated for 'getting around the rules' if they did or flamed with 'we told you so' if They didn't. I'd suspect we will hear no more, however it would be polite to provide an update.
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I think a healthy 21 yr old not wanting to have a vaccination for something that is no risk to them, is perfectly understandable.
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Frosty the Snowman wrote:
I think a healthy 21 yr old not wanting to have a vaccination for something that is no risk to them, is perfectly understandable.


Except if they understand the societal/ communal aspects of vaccination. Or want to travel.....
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@Dave of the Marmottes, I know loads of people that have, or have recently had Covid and All were triple vaxed. Infection is probably as high as it has ever been, as so mamy are not reporting LFT results

For a young, fit person, what difference does it make?
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Wow. Punchy thread, but inevitably so given the emotions.
Personally, rules are rules and it's up to Switzerland to decide who they want to let in or keep out. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant....they answer to their own electorate.
The balance between individual v societial responsibility is a difficult one...where does it lead? Should non-MMR vaxxed kids be allowed to go to school for example? There is a good argument that young people have already put up with huge restrictions on their lives for the last two years for the benefit of the elderly, because of a virus which barely affects the vast majority of them-so should they be hit again with more guilt-loaded vaccination pressure? Particularly when so many already have natural immunity from infection.
I don't see the argument that foreign countries want to protect their hospitals.....if you get infected out there, you're going to be back in the UK before you might get ill (unless going out for 2-3 weeks+) so would not put pressure on their systems.
x 3 vaxxed, me and my wife (both 52) both had Covid last week...she caught it off me. Bad cold symptoms, had far worse 'single line' colds before.

I hope anyone throwing insults at the OP has never driven at 1 mph above the speed limit thereby "putting putting other people at unnecessary danger by their selfish actions."
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Frosty don’t rise to it.
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I don't think the analogy is accurate, because your driving over the speed limit doesn't put every other driver on the road in danger. Whereas when you're immunising against a serious epidemic, a small minority refusing vaccination can negate the entire exercise and in theory, make it worse than if you weren't vaccinating at all. This because an over-long vaccination programme will drive up mutation rates and force the emergence of a serious variant and because for many diseases, for the programme to work, it needs a very high proportion of the population to take up the vaccine.

People are generally quite tolerant of those who are vaccine hesitant, because this is a reasonable position to take. Especially if you look to the USA where vaccination programmes have been seriously mismanaged in the past, and the medical profession has often been dishonest and even racist in its treatment of the public.

But what tends to really annoy people is an attitude that refuses vaccination for no particularly strong reason, such as that quoted by the OP ('just doesn't want it'). Although of course, this could just be a vague expression of a much more complicated situation. What can also be annoying is that - even after all this time and explanation - people justify non-vaccination in terms of their own individual situation (that they believe themselves likely to survive infection with no long-term consequences, or have done so). When the whole thing is a collective effort that succeeds or fails as a collective exercise: whether or not any individual is likely to suffer from the disease is irrelevant.

It would probably have been better for the OP to say that they didn't want to go into the reasons for non-vaccination, as they are not the person involved, and leave it at that. I can understand someone posting a question not wanting to become the interlocutor/apologist for a third party.
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My triple vaxed 26 yr old son and 2 mates arrived back last night from Val d'Isere and they have all tested positive this morning. All were bed ridden for 24 hrs after the 1st vaccine.
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@LaForet, Have to agree to disagree on the analogy.
But restrictions on unvaccinated make far less sense when jabs now seem to have such a small effect on transmission. My vaccinations protect me and keep me from taking up a bed in hospital. I get that, But they do little to prevent me infecting someone else, and anyone in their 20s has a tiny chance of ending up in hospital anyway. Again, they've given up so much already before guilt loading vaccination pressure.
Re. new variants or if you prefer, mutations (sounds more scarey), these are far more likely to happen overseas where vaccination levels are much lower than in the UK. In the end, they'll end up here anyway.
Again....would you ban non MMR vaxxed kids from school? Because if you're being consistent about the collective benefits being more important than the individual, you would say yes to this? What about over 50s needing NHS treatment for flu when they didn't have a flu jab? One of my main issues with the covid response is how it has been treated as a special case regarding society/economic restrictions and money spent on it, which have not been applied to so many other infections which kill (generally old, frail) people in large numbers too. How much should wider society do everything it can to extend the life of the elderly for as long as possible? Increase NHS spending even more? Sorry, going philosophical now.

I agree the OP is trying to find some loophole around the Swiss entry rules on behalf of his daughter; I do not support this. But lots of people try and find ways around rules they don't agree with. You probably have done at some point too in the past.
Each country makes its own decisions. Both our teenagers are x 2 jabbed, and we did so mainly so they could travel and we're going on our first overseas trip (skiing of course) in three years in April. We were never that bothered about them catching it. Daughter number 2 caught it one week after her second jab. I'm a teacher at a large 2nd ary school and at least half of the kids have had a positive test at some point-none have had any long term health issues.
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Frosty the Snowman wrote:
My triple vaxed 26 yr old son and 2 mates arrived back last night from Val d'Isere and they have all tested positive this morning. All were bed ridden for 24 hrs after
the 1st vaccine.


So what? Are they bed ridden following this morning's test? What's your point?
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@halfhand, my point is that the vaccine made them unwell, and has not protected them from catching the virus, despite all being triple jabbed.

The vaccine may well have protected them from harsher symptoms of the virus who knows.

Again, I can understand why healthy, young people may be reluctant to get vaccinated.
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Frosty the Snowman wrote:
@halfhand, my point is that the vaccine made them unwell

Explain?
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Frosty the Snowman wrote:
@halfhand, my point is that the vaccine made them unwell, and has not protected them from catching the virus, despite all being triple jabbed.


Frosty, may I just say that your last post was clear and concise. No more explanation required. Cheers for that Little Angel
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caughtanedge wrote:
Frosty the Snowman wrote:
@halfhand, my point is that the vaccine made them unwell

Explain?


Please?

Adverse reaction.to the 1st vaccine dose , 24 hrs after, lasting a further 24 hrs. Fever, headache, general aches, that confined them to bed.

Many younger people that I know suffered this reaction. Strong immune systems of youth fighting back according to the Doc.
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@Rom77, I couldn't see any ambiguity either.
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I flew Luton-Geneva last weekend and Easyjet staff were checking vaccine certificates at check-in/bag drop. Also on the return yesterday they were checking for a completed UK PLF, which asked for the QR code from the certificate although I'm not sure what would have been the result if I'd said no.
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I think that the example @LaForet, gives, of speeding, is very accurate.

The rules say that you should stick to the speed limit. If you don't then that is your choice If you don't and get caught then it is points or a fine and it doesn't matter whether you agree with the speed limit, if the road is clear, if the weather is great or if you are Nigel Mansell. The rules apply to all. You could even kill someone...bit like spreading Covid through not following the rules.

If lots of people start to break the speed limit causing crashes, injuries or deaths then more enforcement comes in...more signs, cameras, Police patrols etc which cost money and Police time that could be spent on better things. All because a significant minority of people don't want to follow the rules. If people just followed the rules then everyone else would be safer with more money to spend on other, possibly more important, things.
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What @interpaul, is doing is more akin to deliberately speeding, but changing the number plates to try and avoid the consequences. The consequences for doing so will be much more severe than simply speeding, but it might be the chances of being caught are reduced. He knows full well what the speed limit it, does not agree with it and feels he should be entitled to ignore it, so any dishonesty on his part is justified.

It is not the breaking of the speed limit per se that is the problem. Many of us will do that on occasion. It is the attitude that the rules do not, and should not, apply because the OP thinks he should be the judge of these things rather than society at large. I am sure the vast majority accept the need for speed limits, and accept the consequences for being caught breaking them. The OP is by default an entitled and dishonest individual who is encouraging his young adult that there are and should not be any consequences when she both fails in her civic duty and dishonestly breaks the rules that society at large (in this case the Swiss) have set. Because both the OP and his daughter are above such rules, they should be the judge of what the rules should be (and not society at large) and any way of circumventing the rules (say by lying about where you are going) is justified. In short he thinks he is special.

I doubt we will see him again TBH. He either gets away with it, in which case he knows coming back to boast will just lead to a round of condemnation. Or they will be caught out, in which case he would not want others to know he is not quite as special as he thinks.
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@snowhound Well, mutation is what causes variants. I'm only using the term because it's the right one. Mutations are the basis for speciation and natural selection too. It's just a thing and not intrinsically scary.

Mutations are actually less likely in a highly unvaccinated population, foreign or otherwise. The epidemiology is that once you start to vaccinate, you have a finite time to complete the programme (where completing is getting past a particular percentage of vaccinated in the population). This is because as the pool of unvaccinated shrinks, the mutation rate goes up. Thus it's at the end stage of a big vaccination programme that you're most concerned about the increasing incidence of variants.

The scientific target in a vaccination programme is that you get everyone possible vaccinated. But that clashes with some people's idea of individual liberty; known social responses to anything mandatory (where some people will refuse to comply just because it's mandatory); plus nowadays, the political opportunists who seek any opportunity to exploit populist predjudices; and Internet conspiracy theorists.
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@LaForet, I know, I work in scientific-physics/biology-circles. Partial vaccination puts selection pressure to get around the vaccine protection. Until then, the different variants are trying to out-compete each other in transmissibility. In Covid's case however, there is only a limited amount it can change the spike protein because the vaccines target the spike protein. If this is changes shape by a lot to evade vaccines, it will no longer be the right shape to unlock our cells and infect them. So it is caught in a bit of a bind. Better vaccine evasion = lower infection ability.
Up until now, most random mutations have been driven by reproduction. More and faster reproduction = more mutations and greater chance of new variant. We're in a different phase now (certainly in the UK) where it is trying to evade vaccines but has limited range to do so.
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@snowhound It seems like what you're saying is that you think that we're now well past the 'completion point' for the vaccination programme, so it makes no difference whether anyone is unvaccinated or not. There are enough people vaccinated for the herd immunity effect to be in operation. Which is quite possible, but my understanding is that it's hard to know what the completion point is until some time after the epidemic has subsided fully. On the one hand, it may be pointless to limit Swiss visitors to the immunised, and cause problems for people who are no threat (such as the OP's daughter). But on the other hand, the Swiss can't be sure they have passed that point yet, so it's reasonable for them to play safe, because dropping such a restriction too soon could be catastrophic for the whole country, whereas maintaining it too long is merely inconvenient for relatively few travellers.

The issues around compulsory vaccination are both simple and complex. Scientifically, they seem simple - if mandatory vaccination (or denying the unvaccinated access to venues and services) is the only way to complete a vaccination programme successfully then that's what you have to do. But of course, the social, moral and political issues are complex, diverse and not necessarily clear-cut. But they don't change the science. And so I'm sympathetic to epidemiologists who get frustrated that after 2,000 years of medical advances, and a huge investment in the science, we now have a medical solution to the problem of epidemics that anyone pre-2000 would have thought almost impossible: yet there are a significant number of people who not only don't want it, but whose refusal to use it threatens to send us back to the 18th Century in terms of public health, and the economic consequences of epidemics. It doesn't bode well for the future challenges that we face, such as the emergence of antibiotic-resistant bacteria.

Re the OP and their posts: their statements haven't been consistent, really. So it's hard to determine their motivation and intent. You can infer all sorts of things, but there may be a lot unsaid.
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