 Poster: A snowHead
|
I feel sorry for your daughter. I believe the risk/reward for her is actually no vaccine, given her age and presumably good health. Even more so since she had covid in the past.
Ignore the ‘she’s selfish’ dimwits, it’s obvious now that the vaccine has no practical effect on transmission. The ‘we’re not safe until everyone is vaccinated’ argument is also retarded, if anything the vaccine increases selective pressure encouraging the virus to mutate faster.
If its not too late, she is officially allowed to get into Italy without a vaccine, only needs a lateral flow test before flying. Then once shes in Schengen she will have no problem getting to Switzerland.
But honestly, if you want to fly to Switzerland/France, then you can easily get creative hint hint! The airport staff and borders officers don’t give a poo-poo its just a formality and don’t care about not having to something to scan.
Anyway I hope she can join you, would really suck if these baseless rules stop her from skiing. She’s not immoral if she circumvents immoral rules. Imagine a black guy in 1900’s USA- ‘no I shouldn’t drink from this water fountain, its immoral to break the rules!’ .
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| millerlin wrote: |
| ... it’s obvious now that the vaccine has no practical effect on transmission. |
Rubbish. I do wish people would stop spouting this nonsense.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| ptex wrote: |
| millerlin wrote: |
| ... it’s obvious now that the vaccine has no practical effect on transmission. |
Rubbish. I do wish people would stop spouting this nonsense. |
Rubbish how? The booster effectiveness starts around 50% then drops off a cliff. It is nowhere near the effectiveness re infection and transmission that is needed for herd immunity. Since we are so far off from this required efficacy, we just have massive exponential growth and it pratically makes no difference to case rates if anyone gets vaccinated. We see this in the real world too, just look at isreal, uk etc... look at the 97% vaxxed US universities which have huge outbreaks and go remote...
It does decrease hospitalization however, but this also drops with time somewhat too (with omciron and booster).
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| millerlin wrote: |
| She’s not immoral if she circumvents immoral rules. Imagine a black guy in 1900’s USA- ‘no I shouldn’t drink from this water fountain, its immoral to break the rules!’ . |
You are comparing the “right” to enter Switzerland and ski to the Jim Crow laws? Which denied basic civil rights to African Americans? Is this a sensible argument do you think?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Skimum1 wrote: |
| millerlin wrote: |
| She’s not immoral if she circumvents immoral rules. Imagine a black guy in 1900’s USA- ‘no I shouldn’t drink from this water fountain, its immoral to break the rules!’ . |
You are comparing the “right” to enter Switzerland and ski to the Jim Crow laws? Which denied basic civil rights to African Americans? Is this a sensible argument do you think? |
Yes, they are both laws which discriminate against a minority in the population, for no benefit to anyone.
Sure the jc laws are more extreme I used them as a metaphor, however what is comparable to them is what is happening in Canada, where unvaxxed cannot use trains or even fly anywhere, cannot even buy booze/weed https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59915459 . It fking disguisting and somehow most people are fine with it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@millerlin, You quote an article from 2 months ago for a current argument?
The current National average of 80% fully vaccinated appears to be high, but is distorted by very high figures in the Western Provinces and the fact that they vaccinate from 5 years.
Canada had a very large % of the population who were vaccine hesitant, particularly in the less populated provinces. I know, because I have a Nephew in Banff, who has been there for the last 5 years. Alberta still has the lowest rate. There were regular outbreaks in areas where ICU beds were very few and far between, therefore increasing the risks.
Those rules helped to increase the number of vaccinations to an acceptable level, which has only very recently been achieved.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| millerlin wrote: |
Sure the jc laws are more extreme I used them as a metaphor, however what is comparable to them is what is happening in Canada, where unvaxxed cannot use trains or even fly anywhere, cannot even buy booze/weed https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59915459 . It fking disguisting and somehow most people are fine with it. |
You *are* aware refusing vaccines "because I donwanna" is, on the whole, a choice? Unlike ethnicity.
I'm just glad that from I gleaned from this thread, the OP isn't going to be on my flight to GVA this coming weekend.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| NoDosh wrote: |
| millerlin wrote: |
Sure the jc laws are more extreme I used them as a metaphor, however what is comparable to them is what is happening in Canada, where unvaxxed cannot use trains or even fly anywhere, cannot even buy booze/weed https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59915459 . It fking disguisting and somehow most people are fine with it. |
You *are* aware refusing vaccines "because I donwanna" is, on the whole, a choice? Unlike ethnicity.
I'm just glad that from I gleaned from this thread, the OP isn't going to be on my flight to GVA this coming weekend. |
And that makes a difference how? If you had to cut your dick off in order to board a train, you'd have no problem then? Because you have a choice!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| brianatab wrote: |
@millerlin, You quote an article from 2 months ago for a current argument?
The current National average of 80% fully vaccinated appears to be high, but is distorted by very high figures in the Western Provinces and the fact that they vaccinate from 5 years.
Canada had a very large % of the population who were vaccine hesitant, particularly in the less populated provinces. I know, because I have a Nephew in Banff, who has been there for the last 5 years. Alberta still has the lowest rate. There were regular outbreaks in areas where ICU beds were very few and far between, therefore increasing the risks.
Those rules helped to increase the number of vaccinations to an acceptable level, which has only very recently been achieved. |
ah yes, governments coercing its citizens. Awesome
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| millerlin wrote: |
| NoDosh wrote: |
| millerlin wrote: |
Sure the jc laws are more extreme I used them as a metaphor, however what is comparable to them is what is happening in Canada, where unvaxxed cannot use trains or even fly anywhere, cannot even buy booze/weed https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-59915459 . It fking disguisting and somehow most people are fine with it. |
You *are* aware refusing vaccines "because I donwanna" is, on the whole, a choice? Unlike ethnicity.
I'm just glad that from I gleaned from this thread, the OP isn't going to be on my flight to GVA this coming weekend. |
And that makes a difference how? If you had to cut your dick off in order to board a train, you'd have no problem then? Because you have a choice! |
And here we reach peak reductio ad absurdum in just 3 posts.
Troll joins ski forum and dives straight on a vaccine thread. I'm sure somewhere there's a little group on Telegram or Parler all stroking each other off in a circle jerk of their own towering intellects as they launch their heroic attacks on..... internet forums. Well done {sarcastic golf clap}
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@millerlin, Does your daughter have the same outlook on other vaccines, required for travel to some other parts of the World?
(Yellow fever, Diphtheria, Hepatitis, Tetanus, Typhoid, Cholera, etc),
or would she be willing to have them as a pre requisite to her holiday?
Why should a European holiday have a different set of ethical rules?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
@brianatab,
| Quote: |
Yellow fever, Diphtheria, Hepatitis, Tetanus, Typhoid, Cholera
|
I've often wondered whether those who don't want anti-Covid vaccination submit to the above in order to travel. I suppose that, if so, one of their arguments would be that they have been tried and tested for longer.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I know dozens of people who have caught covid over the last few weeks. All are fully vaccinated and some have caught it for the 2nd time in the last 6 months. The arguments for vaccines tend to fall into two buckets.
1. They stop you from getting seriously ill and requiring hospital care. I 100% agree with this and the vaccination development and roll out has been a phenomenal success. I don’t understand the logic of anyone over the age of 40 or with health issues that refuse the vaccine.
2. They prevent transmissions. This is the argument I struggle to agree with. We’re seeing 100k cases a day and they aren’t amongst the unvaccinated. Covid is getting caught and spread amongst the vaccinated population.
I’m fully vaccinated, my OH and 17 year old are also fully vaccinated but personally I don’t care if a 17 year old chooses not to have the vaccine. We’re in a situation now where an 11 year old isn’t eligible for a vaccine but when they turn 12 and don’t have one they’re deemed a menace to society.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
@red_dragon, but you miss the point that, for many, prior infection also protects against serious illness. The issue is immunisation not vaccination.
EG, I had delta, unvaccinated which was less than a cold (¬hing I would have vaxed for in the past). Subsequently have had frequent micro, or even macro at times, exposures to omicron, including living & sharing food with omicron +ve ppl: result -nothing. So I effectively have had 1 immunisation followed by several small boosters.
So the argument I suddenly have to take multiple vax doses to be protected is nonsensical to me and contrary to my real world experience.
And fully agree the current set of vaxes are a pure joke at stopping infection/transmission. Maybe a small % for a few weeks from end wk 2 to 5-6 weeks. Not really a surprise when the main characteristic of the dominant strain is vaccine escape!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
@Hurtle, the argument is that those are diseases which i) you really dont want to catch ii)many already immunised against serious illness from covid by natural infection, and iii)the vaxes are proven over many decades and use conventional technology
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
As someone who has returned from a trip to the Alps only to test positive on the day after my return, along with all of my party, seems like the best way to get immunisation is to on a ski holiday ... or to Cheltenham
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
Maybe a small % for a few weeks from end wk 2 to 5-6 weeks.
|
@gra, I don't think those numbers are correct.
And in any case the specific transmissibility is not nearly important as the population tranmissibility. Reduce infective duration by ~60% (which is roughly what's being seen, and is +/- long lasting) and you reduce transmissibility by ~60%. That's not a joke.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@red_dragon, good comment, if I may.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| millerlin wrote: |
| ptex wrote: |
| millerlin wrote: |
| ... it’s obvious now that the vaccine has no practical effect on transmission. |
Rubbish. I do wish people would stop spouting this nonsense. |
Rubbish how? The booster effectiveness starts around 50% then drops off a cliff. It is nowhere near the effectiveness re infection and transmission that is needed for herd immunity. |
Because of the facts (and not conflating with herd immunity - you made a statement about transmission). The SAR from the latest publications (EUDC, BMJ) states that people who have completed the primary series of vaccination experienced secondary attack rates (SARs) of 32% in households with omicron and 19% in households with delta. For people who received a booster, omicron was associated with a SAR of 25%, while the corresponding estimate for delta was only 11%. There was an increased transmission for unvaccinated people, and a reduced transmission for booster vaccinated people, compared with fully vaccinated people. So transmission is reduced with vaccination and means a lower chance of admission to hospital and death.
As an Austrian Minister said, everyone has a choice, certainly, but also has obligations to society.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Fri 18-03-22 19:13; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Hurtle wrote: |
@brianatab,
| Quote: |
Yellow fever, Diphtheria, Hepatitis, Tetanus, Typhoid, Cholera
|
I've often wondered whether those who don't want anti-Covid vaccination submit to the above in order to travel. I suppose that, if so, one of their arguments would be that they have been tried and tested for longer. |
Those vaccines (with the exception of Typhoid and Cholera) provide sterilising immunity against infection (97-100% efficacy), and Typhoid and Cholera vaccines still provide 50%+ protection 2 years after vaccination.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@DidierCouch, My comment wasn't regarding the effectiveness of the vaccine, rather the willingness to comply with the various travel rules for different Countries instead of ignoring them and hoping to get away with it.
Not sure if the airlines check other vaccination status on boarding in the same way as they have been for Covid, but pretty sure that the immigration people will check very thoroughly, and quite happily refuse you entry if you don't have the requisite documentation.
In many of these Countries, you would be very lucky if you got sent back on the next available flight. In many cases, I suspect you would spend some time in a very unpleasant prison if they thought you were deliberately trying to get round their rules.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@brianatab, my response was more an adjunct to @Hurtles comment as to why a informed young person might come to a different conclusion on vaccination for the dread diseases you mentioned compared to Covid vaccination. The parallel I see is between anti-malarials which are known to have side effects in some - quite a few choose not to take those.
Another factor could be travel insurance may not cover those diseases that can be well protected against if you're not vaccinated.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@DidierCouch, quite right, I have been vaxed against all of these "dread" diseases and have used a vaccine passport to enter French Guiana. These were no brainers, I really don't want yellow fever, or Hep A/B etc, and these vaxes have stood the test of time (although my Dr at one point recommended against the cholera vax, IIRC, as he said the side effects vs efficacy balance was not worth it for my planned trip.)
As for Covid, well I've already had that, both delta and omicron variants, and barely noticed, so a completely different situation to the above. Why the hysterical coercion, mandation and shock/horror at my willingness to remain unvaxed and rely on the natural immunisation I have already received? It's hardly like my unvaxed status has threatened to overload the NHS, nor likely I have spread more infection, as well as remaining mainly symptom free (so likely to spread less), most of my vaxed friends have tested positive significantly more often than me...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
Right , Back to the original thread:
Entering switzerland for the unvaccinated :
Was reading the rules and am I reading that right that a passenger locator form is no longer necessary whether u are vaccinated or not ?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Rom77, Travelling from Ireland, you do not need anything (except Passport of course...!)
travelling from the UK - entry not allowed..
https://travelcheck.admin.ch/home
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| albob wrote: |
@Rom77, Travelling from Ireland, you do not need anything (except Passport of course...!)
travelling from the UK - entry not allowed..
https://travelcheck.admin.ch/home |
for anyone unvaxxed wanting to go to switzerland etc- you can fly to italy unvaxxed, then easily get anywhere in mainland europe. Fly to somewhere close to the border like Turin
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| millerlin wrote: |
| albob wrote: |
@Rom77, Travelling from Ireland, you do not need anything (except Passport of course...!)
travelling from the UK - entry not allowed..
https://travelcheck.admin.ch/home |
for anyone unvaxxed wanting to go to switzerland etc- you can fly to italy unvaxxed, then easily get anywhere in mainland europe. Fly to somewhere close to the border like Turin |
And then turned away from any hotel/restaurant if they decide to check if individuals are vaccinated or not.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| ansta1 wrote: |
| millerlin wrote: |
| albob wrote: |
@Rom77, Travelling from Ireland, you do not need anything (except Passport of course...!)
travelling from the UK - entry not allowed..
https://travelcheck.admin.ch/home |
for anyone unvaxxed wanting to go to switzerland etc- you can fly to italy unvaxxed, then easily get anywhere in mainland europe. Fly to somewhere close to the border like Turin |
And then turned away from any hotel/restaurant if they decide to check if individuals are vaccinated or not. |
which countries do this? its gone in france, switzerland and italy now
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
Italy for one -- you still need the Super Green Pass to enter some venues
"...From 10 January to 31 March 2022, access to:
- Hotels and other accommodation facilities, including in-house catering services reserved for customer
- Public transport (planes, trains, ships and ferries used for interregional transport services, buses, cable cars, gondolas, chairlifts)
- Conventions, congresses, festivals, fairs;
- Festivals following civil and religious ceremonies;
- museums and exhibitions or other places of culture
- spas (except for essential services for rehabilitation and therapeutic purposes), cultural, social and recreational centres, theme and amusement parks;
is allowed ONLY to persons in possession of a Strengthened Green Pass. Children under the age of 12 and persons exempt from the vaccination campaign on the basis of appropriate medical certification are exempt...."
=====EDIT====
Unvacced can get the SGP by getting tested PCR (72 hours) or LFT (48 hours)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| albob wrote: |
Italy for one -- you still need the Super Green Pass to enter some venues
"...From 10 January to 31 March 2022, access to:
- Hotels and other accommodation facilities, including in-house catering services reserved for customers;
- Public transport (planes, trains, ships and ferries used for interregional transport services, buses, cable cars, gondolas, chairlifts)
- Conventions, congresses, festivals, fairs;
- Festivals following civil and religious ceremonies;
- museums and exhibitions or other places of culture
- spas (except for essential services for rehabilitation and therapeutic purposes), cultural, social and recreational centres, theme and amusement parks;
is allowed ONLY to persons in possession of a Strengthened Green Pass. Children under the age of 12 and persons exempt from the vaccination campaign on the basis of appropriate medical certification are exempt...." |
interesting, i was in italy two weeks ago and I had no idea of this, used trains and restrauants and was never asked for the pass. I don't think they are enforced much at all..
But France officially dropped zie pass this week, and no pass in switzerland.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
Do you still need to validate your lift pass daily in Italy?
Not easy for unvaccinated.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Having a hot chocolate in Claviere on Thursday required a vaccine pass.
This thread reads like some complete Putins out there refuse to accept that the rules should apply to everyone including them.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Gordyjh wrote: |
Having a hot chocolate in Claviere on Thursday required a vaccine pass.
This thread reads like some complete Putins out there refuse to accept that the rules should apply to everyone including them. |
Yeh its weird how people value freedom and bodily autonomy.. those fking putins.
Have you ever skied in China? You'd fit in well there
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| brianatab wrote: |
Do you still need to validate your lift pass daily in Italy?
Not easy for unvaccinated. |
I believe that was only ever a subset of resorts, which just happened to include one you went to.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
They appear to be validating green pass/lift pass daily in Seiser Alm, if not already attached to your lift pass. We had ours validated when we bought 12 day passes last Saturday. Masks still in gondola and shops and some restaurants asking to see the pass, but not many.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| millerlin wrote: |
| Gordyjh wrote: |
Having a hot chocolate in Claviere on Thursday required a vaccine pass.
This thread reads like some complete Putins out there refuse to accept that the rules should apply to everyone including them. |
Yeh its weird how people value freedom and bodily autonomy.. those fking putins.
Have you ever skied in China? You'd fit in well there |
Freedom comes with a price and conditions. You may not like some or all of them but that's the price.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@millerlin, so tell me why the rules should NOT apply equally to everyone in a democracy?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@millerlin, For the hard-of-understanding like your good self, please realise “Putin” is the modern version of “Caring Understanding Nineties Type”.
Be a democrat, not a Putin.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| ansta1 wrote: |
| millerlin wrote: |
| Gordyjh wrote: |
Having a hot chocolate in Claviere on Thursday required a vaccine pass.
This thread reads like some complete Putins out there refuse to accept that the rules should apply to everyone including them. |
Yeh its weird how people value freedom and bodily autonomy.. those fking putins.
Have you ever skied in China? You'd fit in well there |
Freedom comes with a price and conditions. You may not like some or all of them but that's the price. |
Lmao how is the price of a free society vaccine passes and mandates
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Gordyjh wrote: |
| @millerlin, so tell me why the rules should NOT apply equally to everyone in a democracy? |
they should, but these mandates and passes should have no place in a free society/democracy
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
