 Poster: A snowHead
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Some of that queue is due to removing two lifts that offered an alternative route to using the Colosses chairlift. Now, apart from getting the bus, that is the only direct way 'home' for 7 of the 11 La Plagne villages. It broke down at 16:00 a couple of years ago and they were still bussing people back at 7.30pm!
Hopefully, the idea of central, fast, high capacity lifts and removing smaller lifts is a strategy of the past.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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To be fair, I've been in some pretty massive queues when the old colosses chair and drag were there. Even between them they had a significantly lower capacity than the new Colosses. Although the queues look huge, they move surprisingly quickly on a 3000+ person per hour lift.
Agree with your point about the single point of failure though. To this end I really don't understand why they don't construct a piste that goes from the top Blanchets via top of col de forcle (yes that bit exists already ) then down into Plagne centre. That would cut the queues at Colosses hugely, as Blanchets is often virtually empty at 1600.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Jesus the neck of some of you.
Stop looking down your noses at people who only get a chance to ski at half term. Its most unsporting.
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I'm not looking down my nose at anyone. Just sayin' that if skiing had meant colossal costs and crowds, I'd never have got started with it. If people have the endurance to pay all that money and battle crowds on the way, on the way home, and when they are there, good for them. But I really, personally, couldn't be arsed. Just like I can't be arsed with Cornwall in high summer. Or to sit on a crowded beach anywhere. It's a matter for personal preference, an aesthetic choice, not a moral one. Like whether you like Richard Strauss or Johann Strauss. Or neither.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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When we took our twin girls skiing we were paying school fees and that was in the day when it was not illegal to take them out of school, so our attitude was we're paying for their schooling and we'll take them out if we need to, plus it was an education for them, French ski school that is 
I honestly can't remember what we did when they went to state school, but I'm pretty sure we would not have done half term, or any other high season time?
The beauty about Serre Chevalier is that if you have a season pass or the Holi Ski card which is a sort of Oyster card, there is a separate queue for us "Joy" and it's always empty, even faster than the ski-school one 
And as for getting away from the crowds, even ski touring* today the parking area was nearly full and I've never seen as many people trudging up the mountain, but 75% of them are sheep and follow the popular routes, but with the dire snow we have down Sarf, South facing sectors have no snow, so that concentrates people into 50% of the normal area 
* and that was shite as I read the forecast wrong
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| harrim51 wrote: |
@davidof, just spotted the red telephone box!  |
It used to be a well stocked library of mostly english language fiction but when I looked a few weeks ago there were more shelves than books.
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@BoardieK, that’s a shame, we have one around here that is well used as a book bank.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Orange200 wrote: |
| Go to Andorra, get up early. Crowded only Saturday-Tuesday and Spanish don’t like getting up early. |
Sat in Stansted, on our way there now, always skied in Andorra at half term, occasionally busy but never a problem.
My kids far prefer the Andorran ski school to the French
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We skied for a number of half term holidays when the kids were in exam years ( long past now thank goodness) but we always chose lesser known smaller French resorts and rarely saw any queues.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Personally we've had to suck up Feb half term for many years and there will always be queues wherever you go. But obviously differing lengths.
I've had to wait in Chinaillon and the Espace Diamante as smaller resorts have fewer lifts to be able to filter off to if you see a long queue.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We skied for a number of half term holidays when the kids were in exam years ( long past now thank goodness) but we always chose lesser known smaller French resorts and rarely saw any queues.
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We both taught and when we could afford to ski with our boys in Europe (who had learned in Scotland with me mostly) we firstly went to Andorra at Easter on a cheap package, which was OK but limited. It was decided that Feb half term was the best compromise. Christmas/ New year can be too early/ too cold/ minimal snow/ awkward with family arrangements and Easter can be too late/ too warm/ too slushy/ too inconsistent (unless you go high of course). We also worked out the cheapest way was easily self-catering, self-driving. We wanted somewhere with range plus the shortest driving distance. The answer was Flaine/ GM. We drove there 13 times including also Easter one time (plus also ADH one Easter). Yes, it was busy but you get to know the lift system and when and where to go. I think the GM is underrated. We've skied in La Plagne and LDA (and others) since but will still happily go back to Flaine, in fact we're going there in 4 weeks.
Yes, Feb HT is a challenge but I'm glad we did it. I wouldn't have wanted to drive further at HT, Italy and Austria are too far (have skied in both of them plus Spain plus Norway but would only fly to each of those).
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You know it makes sense.
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When I was a child kids were officially allowed to take up to a fortnight off to coincide with "father's" leave. I think same applied when my kids were little - at any rate, we always told their schools the truth, and there was no problem.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Klamm Franzer wrote: |
| France was peak Paris. |
Paris is on holiday from today, not last week.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Alpinebear wrote: |
@davidof I think you like looking for queues! |
as others have said, the disadvantage of having school aged kids
although as Pam notes, I have colleagues with grown up kids who were on holiday last week.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| skichampcouk wrote: |
@kettonskimum,@MaxiD, It's Plagne Bellecote where the Arpette, Colosses, Blanchette and Roche du Mio lifts commence. A notorious spot for queues, especially just after lunch.
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You can add Plagne Center and Bergerie, Lovatiere and Colorado to that list.
If I'd known the ski area beter I could have avoided Bellecote, pretty much.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Sitting in the worst queue of our half term week at the moment, at Eurotunnel Calais. Across the Skiwelt, we had one queue of more than 60 seconds all week, which was about 5 minutes due to multiple lift closures as a result of Force 6 winds.
Why do people continue to go to these places?
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In 2020 we had an extended break in france including over half term, we had a free day on our pass to grand massif for some stupid reason we went in half term, best part of half an hour for 1st lift in les carroz then 45 minutes at another, went home, found a little place called plaine joux, no brits other than us and all drags but great day.
Really feel for those who have no choice
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Of course the worst timing would be trying to catch a lift 5 mins after ski school meet up. Esp if you're dropping kids off. No matter what size resort you're in, it's a nightmare.
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@pam w, it varies between areas, but taking kids out of school is not as easy as it used to be. We always told school what we were doing and were supported, up until a few years back when we were told we would be reported and possibly fined.
Easter and Christmas are, in my view, better options if you are tied to school holidays. However for some people it has t9 be half term.
Now we have flexibility we will avoid it, but understand why for many it is the only time.
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We are on our way back from Grindelwald - no queues at all - it was amazing. We have kids coming up to exams and no real choice but to ski half term - it’s busier than trips we had when they were little enough to miss school but not painful at all.
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@pam w, Remained so through all my headship, 96-12, before getting all 'illegal'.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| davidof wrote: |
Don'tcha just love insane French half term lift queues !
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"Nobody goes there anymore; it's too crowded" -- paraphrasing the great Yogi Berra.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I'm not looking down my nose at anyone. Just sayin' that if skiing had meant colossal costs and crowds, I'd never have got started with it. If people have the endurance to pay all that money and battle crowds on the way, on the way home, and when they are there, good for them. But I really, personally, couldn't be arsed. Just like I can't be arsed with Cornwall in high summer. Or to sit on a crowded beach anywhere. It's a matter for personal preference, an aesthetic choice, not a moral one. Like whether you like Richard Strauss or Johann Strauss. Or neither. |
Not directed at you Pam but playing off this comment:
Skiing has meant colossal costs and crowds since I started in the mid-70s. It's a sport for the (comparatively) wealthy almost anywhere, unless you happened to be born in a ski station.
Sure, there are a few cheapish hills -- many of them sussed out here -- but if you want quality terrain you are going to have to pay for it. And during the European (not just French) school holidays, you will have to wait in a queue to share it with others. Is it really different than any tourist attraction in high season? I say not.
The bare facts are that anyone with school-age children is tied to the school schedule. But ski stations can't staff up and have surplus lifts for the 12 weeks of winter that aren't holidays...they do need to make money.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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A queue that's caused by a big bottleneck in La Plagne. It would and should be solved by another lift above Bellecote and a new piste as mentioned above.
But then the whole La Plagne area is badly designed and very flat skiing in general.
Probably the worst Tarantaise resort.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
Is it really different than any tourist attraction in high season?
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Probably not, which is why I don't go to tourist attractions in high season. Salcombe was pretty appalling, even for a day, last summer. I would need to be paid a lot of money to sit on a very hot and crowded beach. If stuck with school holidays for skiing I'd go for Christmas (because despite the short days and iffy snow, Christmas in a ski resort is so preferable to the booze and TV fest it is in the UK) or Easter (go high, enjoy the sunshine and cold beers on a terrace). If it was half term or nothing, I'm quite clear that it would have been nothing. Would have done sailing holidays instead, probably. We did have some sailing holidays. They were also expensive and also involving feeding the family in an inadequately equipped, far too small, space and coping with being being cold, wet or scared - sometimes all at once, especially in Scotland.
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Each to their own.
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You know it makes sense.
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| JDL65 wrote: |
A queue that's caused by a big bottleneck in La Plagne. It would and should be solved by another lift above Bellecote and a new piste as mentioned above.
But then the whole La Plagne area is badly designed and very flat skiing in general.
Probably the worst Tarantaise resort. |
It is pretty flat - but for intermediates that is great as they can ski everywhere without too many worries.
The lift system needs some fixes, that is sure. It seemed a bit scrappy and complicated but I admit that is just a superficial impression.
Everyone seems to have taken Friday off judging by the traffic jams on the way back as far as Chambery in the evening.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@pam w, we are getting very deep here having to work out whether skiing is more like Johann or Richard Strauss. Not a philosophical question I have ever previously considered! Both can make for a single enjoyable concert but I would find a week very tiresome with nothing but music from either.
I assume that lift is one of the ones you have to take either to head over to Les Coches or Plagne Centre without going all the way up to Roche de Mio (it is quite a few years since we have been to La Plagne). We had long queues there years ago, I agree with other posters that by now they should have set up more routes.
But on topic, it does seem surprising that adults whose first acquaintance with skiing was at half term have actually persisted with it. Most of us (pre-children) got the bug on the cheaper weeks out of school holidays. Obviously a bit different fot the children themselves who took what they were taken to at face value without considering the cost.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| davidof wrote: |
| JDL65 wrote: |
A queue that's caused by a big bottleneck in La Plagne. It would and should be solved by another lift above Bellecote and a new piste as mentioned above.
But then the whole La Plagne area is badly designed and very flat skiing in general.
Probably the worst Tarantaise resort. |
It is pretty flat - but for intermediates that is great as they can ski everywhere without too many worries.
The lift system needs some fixes, that is sure. It seemed a bit scrappy and complicated but I admit that is just a superficial impression.
Everyone seems to have taken Friday off judging by the traffic jams on the way back as far as Chambery in the evening. |
But other Tarantaise resorts have far better lift systems that still allow intermediates to get around easily. Compared to the 3 Valleys, you get at best 70% distance and 60% elevation in a day at La Plagne in comparison. I reckon a similar comparison would be had with Val d'Isere/Tignes.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Boris wrote: |
@pam w, it varies between areas, but taking kids out of school is not as easy as it used to be. We always told school what we were doing and were supported, up until a few years back when we were told we would be reported and possibly fined.
Easter and Christmas are, in my view, better options if you are tied to school holidays. However for some people it has t9 be half term.
Now we have flexibility we will avoid it, but understand why for many it is the only time. |
Same here.
Used to take our young kids the week after all the French kids had definitely gone back to school, typically the first week of March. Rarely saw lift queues.
Then the UK made school term attendance mandatory, backed by statutory penalties, plus our kids were at senior schools.
Skiing suddenly became vastly more expensive and busy.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Bergmeister, as said, each to their own. I wouldn't dream of flying across the pond for a single week for any activity. Two weeks minimum to make the flight cost worthwhile (unless someone else was paying......) 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I am sure that my 3 ageing kids (1 Phd in Computational Neuroscience, one Masters in Electronic engineering, now Chief Architect of a massive computer chip, one First Class degree in Humanities) never suffered for thirty seconds from being taken out of school to go on cheap, low season, ski holidays. I realise it's much harder now to take kids out of school but I simply don't accept that some people have "no choice" other than to ski in big French resorts at half term - that is a patently absurd assertion. But I have no problem with their decision to do so, if that's what floats their boat. I just know it wouldn't have been for me.
I do, however, have some problem with the proposition that going to smaller French resorts is the answer. It depends on the resort.... and on how the French holidays fall. We had an apartment in a small French resort for 15 years and spent four months a year there. But after the first time when my pesky sister in law insisted on visiting at half term, and I spent too long with her in lift queues, we NEVER stayed there for the French holidays again. Instead, we swapped weeks in our apartment with friends in the same complex - they had our place during the "vacances scolaires" and we had theirs in some much quieter week. Worked perfectly, and no money changed hands!
Les Saisies in French holiday weeks, especially the two Parisian weeks, was awful. Some bigger places with much more sophisticated lift system - for example Val d'Isere - were better for people who knew the lift system well and could avoid the worst of the queues.
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Out of interest, do your 3 overly successful kids (not sure we needed the full glowing success CV on a Saturday night) take their kids out of school to ski?
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Like other parents who don't want to give our children the impression education doesn't matter, we skiied at half term for years.
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We didn't start having ski holidays until the youngest of our 3 kids was 4 - it hadn't been an affordable option, really and as my OH grew up in Africa, and I in a genuinely hard up family, skiing wasn't part of our world. When we first went, I did a lot of research (pre-internet, endless piles of brochures) to find out what was what. And aimed for the very cheapest, early January, weeks. That meant taking kids out of school but having been taken out of school by my crowd-hating father several times, to go camping (one memorable time missing the school exams...) that didn't strike me as a big deal. I never thought my Dad dismissed the importance of education and I don't think my kids got that impression either. At any rate, all concerned got educated very successfully (and all entirely in state schools, apart from when we worked overseas a couple of times and the boys went to boarding school).
The budget for our family ski holidays was always tight. There was certainly never any possibility that other people would be taking the kids to ski school. The first holiday, when we were based in Scotland, we flew to Salzburg with five pairs of skis rented in Ayr, wrapped in a pink candlewick bedspread (because cases cost extra but renting in Ayr was a lot cheaper than renting in Austrian schillings). My eldest son, who was 11, died of mortification amongst all the smart Head bags carried by our fellow passengers. We also had grandma. And a pressure cooker and very carefully thought out ingredients to reduce the amount of food we had to buy locally. Nobody "ate out on the mountain" at lunchtime or any other time. Grandma cooked lunch for us all, I cooked dinner.
It was a stunningly successful holiday and we all fell in love with skiing, despite a much delayed flight out, a long transfer in a not-very-comfortable little van and a surly welcome from the Austrian manager of the self-catering apartments, very disgruntled to have had to wait up for our late arrival and come out on a very cold evening. We didn't care; we were just transfixed by the incredible canopy of stars twinkling over snowy mountains.
That was a two-week holiday - the cost of the extra week wasn't huge, and the whole thing cost significantly less than a half-term, peak week, would have done. Feeding ourselves cost us no more than it would have at home (thanks to the pressure cooker, the food we took with us, and grandma). The main additional cost was lift passes, of course - but they were good value in terms of the "pounds per skiing hour" calculation. My mother had picked up a duty-free bottle of Baileys, and doled out tiny glasses of what they still call "Bay leaves" to her entranced grandsons every evening. So as well as demonstrating that education didn't matter we poured alcohol down a 9 and 11 year old....
Other holidays were camping, at home in Scotland, in a very old Toyota Hi-Ace with a pop up roof. Generally in the rain. We have never done a summer package - in fact, apart from ski trips, I've never done a package holiday in my life. |
Fantastic Pam, great story and a point very very well made.
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@pam w, whether taking kids out of school in term time is damaging to their education is a whole other thread.
But when you did this, it was common practice. Would you have done the same with current laws?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My kids left school about seven years ago and we could not always get their school weeks as leave and fairly often took them out of school but it does seem to be getting more difficult now than even then.
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It is certainly an arresting photograph and a huge queue, but this is for the Colusses, which, as its name implies, is huge. It is a 8 seat detachable chair lift capable of shifting over 4400 people per hour, one of the largest if not the largest in the world. Large queues can form and be shifted quickly.
Mind you a 30 minute queue as @davidof, reports is bad but I have had them in almost every country I’ve skied in. The exception was Japan. The worst was St. Anton where there were 2 separate 30 minute queues one after the other just to get up the mountain every morning. The best behaved was Bulgaria, and the best regimented Whistler where they marshalled the queue to the queue down the street. Verbier showed me that even Switzerland has a queuing problem at times.
As @pam w, points out the best way to avoid queues is to not go during school holidays, which means that in February the best choice is probably Italy, where there is no mid-winter holiday. Like her I rent out my apartment in France over the 4 weeks of the school holidays and go in April instead.
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