 Poster: A snowHead
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I bought my ABS in 2010. I skied almost every day of the season I bought it and then it has seen about 10 days use a year thereafter. It has been periodically tested and serviced, mainly due to occasional recalls on the cannister/bag.
It is now 12 years old and is, therefore, two years past the point at which ABS will continue to service it. I am in two minds as to whether I should retire it. On the one hand, it is now past the point at which the manufacturer will service it, which suggests they lack confidence in it working as it should. On the other it still works and I have taken care of it such that, despite being 12 years old, it is still in good condition visually.
What's the view here?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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From a scan of the web looks like other manufacturers e.g. BCA say 10 years. Unclear what this is based on.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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It's a safety device, maybe not a primary one like a parachute, but you bought it to potentially save your life if caught in a free flowing avalanche.
I would retire it, not sell it, unless you can get ABS to refurbish it and issue a new warranty. However, technology has moved on, both in terms of weight and inflation system. If you are happy with ABS, get another one for the next 10 years.
I've had 2 ABS, 2 Pieps (fan), and now a Scott (fan). If I was going to buy another it would be another Scott.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I would agree with @PowderAdict. It's not normal backpack but safety device. Now question is do you want to be 100% sure it will work, or are you ready to take risk for ABS not to work properly when needed. For me, it's first option, so I sold my 7 years old ABS and bought new one (same as @PowderAdict, I went with Scott). My was working perfectly, had no damage or anything and was regularly maintained, but I just wasn't 100% sure. And as it might be that your life will depend on this, I don't think few 100eur is that much when my life might be in question.
So my suggestion, this one contrarty to @PowderAdict  , try to sell it for 100 or 200eur (my went for 250eur without problem with full steel and carbon canister) if it goes, otherwise just retire it, and get new one. For me, it's really no sense thinking once under snow, you should pay those 600 or 700eur for new one, and it might turn out different. I still hope noone of us will ever need it in real situation, but it's there for your life and your safety, and price of new one is not that high when considering why you have it.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If you have to ask the question then you know the answer!
If I thought that I was obliged to retire it then I would not feel able to sell it to someone else. But I think again if you have to ask other people then...don't.
I'm guessing that it will continue to work - but that is a guess. If the manufacturers will service for 10 years then I fully expect that they will have determined that 10 years is well within the lifespan. Having an ABS obviously implies that you have a personal risk appetite- that involves more than skiing on piste. But again you are asking other people's opinions- which means that you have more uncertainty than you can tolerate yourself.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| gorilla wrote: |
| From a scan of the web looks like other manufacturers e.g. BCA say 10 years. Unclear what this is based on. |
becuase they would run out of customers quickly if they didnt have a reason to replace them
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@woolhead, that's really helpful. Thanks.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I recently upgraded a 10 year old ABS bag. It was tested and working, so I had no moral issues about selling it on – in fact, it might mean that someone who otherwise may not be able to afford an airbag was able to take it with them. I didn't ask a high price.
I didn't only upgrade because of the age though, and tbh the reliability wasn't even a consideration because I knew it was working. It was more because I found it bulky and lacking in features, and had a tendency to leave it at home if the avi risk was lower. I figured that wasn't great for self-preservation, and bought a Scott capacitor bag, which I hardly notice I'm wearing.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
I recently upgraded a 10 year old ABS bag. It was tested and working, so I had no moral issues about selling it on – in fact, it might mean that someone who otherwise may not be able to afford an airbag was able to take it with them. I didn't ask a high price.
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That's the way to go!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Tristero wrote: |
| Scarlet wrote: |
I recently upgraded a 10 year old ABS bag. It was tested and working, so I had no moral issues about selling it on – in fact, it might mean that someone who otherwise may not be able to afford an airbag was able to take it with them. I didn't ask a high price.
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That's the way to go! |
Absolutely! There’s a ton of kids out there who can’t afford to/won’t pay full whack so a well looked after older model might save someone’s life!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
I recently upgraded a 10 year old ABS bag. It was tested and working, so I had no moral issues about selling it on – in fact, it might mean that someone who otherwise may not be able to afford an airbag was able to take it with them. I didn't ask a high price.
I didn't only upgrade because of the age though, and tbh the reliability wasn't even a consideration because I knew it was working. It was more because I found it bulky and lacking in features, and had a tendency to leave it at home if the avi risk was lower. I figured that wasn't great for self-preservation, and bought a Scott capacitor bag, which I hardly notice I'm wearing. |
Hi- I guess that perhaps there is an issue about why you (one gets) got a new bag.
1. You are happy with the safety of the old bag, but want a better one- you have no qualms about selling- this is fine.
2. You think your old bag is unsafe- you have qualms about selling to the extent that you ask other people if this is ok- this is not ok.
I don't think this is a contradiction. As scenario 1 results in the seller being happy with their own morality. Scenario 2 equals cognitive dissonance / guilt. I think it basically breaks the Golden Rule- don't do anything you wouldn't be happy with if done to you. That is a personal equation.
As it happens I have looked at second hand ABS bags on eBay- but I haven't bought one. Mind you I don't think I'd look at anything that old. I quite easily earn enough to buy a new capacitor bag- but I resent the prices as they seem to be grossly inflated (geddit), that said- I have bought neither and will probably get a capacitor bag at some point.
ABS / capacitor bag rentals would seem sensible.
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| ed123 wrote: |
You think your old bag is unsafe- you have qualms about selling to the extent that you ask other people if this is ok- this is not ok.
I don't think this is a contradiction. As scenario 1 results in the seller being happy with their own morality. Scenario 2 equals cognitive dissonance / guilt. I think it basically breaks the Golden Rule- don't do anything you wouldn't be happy with if done to you. That is a personal equation.
As it happens I have looked at second hand ABS bags on eBay- but I haven't bought one. Mind you I don't think I'd look at anything that old. I quite easily earn enough to buy a new capacitor bag- but I resent the prices as they seem to be grossly inflated (geddit), that said- I have bought neither and will probably get a capacitor bag at some point.
ABS / capacitor bag rentals would seem sensible. |
The op doesn’t say they think the bag is unsafe, only that it is old and *might* have reliability issues, but they have not offered any specific evidence as to why that would be (e.g. it didn’t work when tested), so as it sounds like it has been looked after and serviced, it’s probably fine.
As with all second hand purchases, the rule is buyer beware. If the op is honest about the age and condition of the bag, there is no reason they can’t sell it. If I was buying a used bag, I’d get it checked before use (yes, I have done this), and suggest anyone else does the same.
Discounts are available on new bags – winter sales are starting now, so it’s a good time to look. Or they can be rented in resort from a ski hire shop.
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You know it makes sense.
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@ed123, as I wrote earlier, I sold mine because of your number 2. I thought that maybe it's time to change it, as I have no idea how long these things really last to be 100%. Do I have any moral issue because I sold it? No none at all. Bag was tested and it worked perfectly fine. Buyer was well aware how old it is, and what was condition of it, so I didn't hide any important (or even unimportant) info. If someone decided it's fine to buy 7 years old ABS then it's his decision, but personally I certainly don't feel bad because I know I didn't do anything wrong or not moral when selling it. It's just that people have different idea what feels safe for them. As longs as seller doesn't hide info, I don't see anything bad with selling equipment, especially if tested and proved working, that seller feels uncomfortable with, but for buyer it's all fine.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks all. I decided that a new one was the way forward and have ordered a Mammut Flip, with the choice made largely on weight and cost grounds. I just can't justify the price of the Scott and the Scott is roughly the same weight as the ABS. The Flip is almost a kilo lighter.
Regarding the safety of the bag. I have no reason to think it is unsafe at the moment as I have been very careful with it. I would also unhesitatingly use older dive gear provided I knew its service history. The issue with the bag is that I can't get it serviced now, so I cannot establish a track record other than by firing it. I suspect that firing it increases the need to get it serviced due to the use of a small explosive charge in the firing handle.
I will probably sell the activation unit as that is much newer. I'd be more cautious about selling the bag.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@gorilla: Good choice! Lightness is key. Sell the other one, though. You might save a life.
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