 Poster: A snowHead
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Well….last couple of years I have looked at those static high pressures over Western Europe during the Summer and thought - I don’t recall these at all from my youth…just static air, for days. Global warming is pumping more energy into the atmosphere…so why is it so static…for weeks…enigma. And I thought…what if this happens during the winter….no snow. Oh look…it has been happening for the past two weeks and I see no sign of change. No snow….meteox just looks scary….
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@valais2, So the 50cm over the weekend in Austria with a further 20-30cm due this weekend have escaped your notice? Wouldn't bother with the Southern Alps for now though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Rwf - yes that looks good….phew…decent bit of renewal….fingers crossed
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Plenty snow around Innsbruck last Saturday 
Which was why I was still there Sunday instead of back home
A night in Innsbruck was no hardship but if I had been on the way out and lost a day on the slops I would have been less happy
Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Tue 25-01-22 9:06; edited 1 time in total
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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For 2017-19 the big dumps have been late March and April in the Rhone Valley….
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@valais2, season 89-90 northern French alps had no snow for 9 weeks after a modest dump around xmas. Iirc, entire PdS was down to 2 lifts and 6 "pistes" ...
It's pretty common. Meteoblue synthesis suggesting some round end of month here.
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Nothing new.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@valais2,
There is little point looking at the weather forecast in the UK to see if it's going to snow in the Alps.
You need to look at the weather forecast in the ski resorts. Even their short term forecasts can be unreliable because the mountains can cause local effects.
If we have a high pressure weather system over the UK there could be a low pressure system over the Alps which could be dumping snow. You have to see the synoptic charts produced by the Met Office to see where they think the weather systems are moving. A warm front can also produce rain/snow because warm air carries more moisture which condenses out when it meets the mountains. Weather forecasting is very complex.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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welshflyer….Blimey…indeed … we are used to exploiting the differences around the same hill in the Alps, let alone between sides of the valley. Indeed…many many microclimates.
But there IS a relation between the fronts coming across the UK and the snowfall in the Alps…that’s why METEOX is so helpful.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@valais2, no, really, blocking highs in January are very common and certainly not new.
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@under a new name, ah that’s interesting UANN - over what time is your experience? During Dec-May I tend to switch from obsessive fixation on skiing conditions in the Alps over to forest-riding conditions for mtb in the UK, so I guess have a more fragmented view than yours….to which I indeed defer…
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You know it makes sense.
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There is no contradiction between there having been blocking highs in the past, and their becoming more common and heralding a step change - meteorology can become climatology, I guess.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| valais2 wrote: |
| Well….last couple of years I have looked at those static high pressures over Western Europe during the Summer and thought - I don’t recall these at all from my youth…just static air, for days. Global warming is pumping more energy into the atmosphere…so why is it so static…for weeks…enigma. And I thought…what if this happens during the winter….no snow. Oh look…it has been happening for the past two weeks and I see no sign of change. No snow….meteox just looks scary…. |
you know the weather is not predictable?
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Mr.Egg, W H A A A A T ???? … but I want control… CONTROL I SAY!!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| valais2 wrote: |
| @Mr.Egg, W H A A A A T ???? … but I want control… CONTROL I SAY!!!! |
Then you need to build a weather machine & become a movie villan.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Mr.Egg, (hums Bond theme….)
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@valais2, first experience season 88-89 ... there'd been one the previous year but I wasn't there ... paying geographically closer attention since 2006
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Kenzie, Gosh that’s a powerful graphic, both in how it works and in its message about the next 50 years
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@under a new name….thanks…the 90’s was the time that I started to go high in the Summer and goodness I have seen the change…
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@Kenzie,
The Guardian article says "Albertville at 2100 metres amsl". That is rubbish Albertville is a lot lower than that and the events in 1992 weren't in Albertville they were shared around a number of different ski resorts in the area.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
| So the 50cm over the weekend in Austria with a further 20-30cm due this weekend escaped your notice? |
Phew! Thanks for confirming that
RedandWhiteFlachau - I thought the powder we skiied at Venet last Saturday and Seefeld on Sunday had come to me in a dream 
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sigh....airport roof in Istanbul collapses due to heavy snow....meanwhile predicted snow in the Valais at the coming weekend downgraded to … rain
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| valais2 wrote: |
| Well….last couple of years I have looked at those static high pressures over Western Europe during the Summer and thought - I don’t recall these at all from my youth…just static air, for days. Global warming is pumping more energy into the atmosphere…so why is it so static…for weeks…enigma. And I thought…what if this happens during the winter….no snow. Oh look…it has been happening for the past two weeks and I see no sign of change. No snow….meteox just looks scary…. |
A mid season high pressure in the alps lasting 5-6 weeks not uncommon.
There is a simple reason for it. Water takes longer than land to heat / cool.
So : At start of season (Dec / Jan) the land is cooling down but sea is still warm (so active weather systems).
Similarly at end of the winter (mid-March-April) the land starts to heat up but sea is cold (so active weather systems and J-Anvril storms).
In the middle of season (February) the weather more likely to be stable with high pressure dominating.
Having said that : there is no doubt that climate change is real and having an effect on our winters both in Scotland & the alps.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| valais2 wrote: |
| Well….last couple of years I have looked at those static high pressures over Western Europe during the Summer and thought - I don’t recall these at all from my youth…just static air, for days. Global warming is pumping more energy into the atmosphere…so why is it so static…for weeks…enigma. And I thought…what if this happens during the winter….no snow. Oh look…it has been happening for the past two weeks and I see no sign of change. No snow….meteox just looks scary…. |
A mid season high pressure in the alps lasting 5-6 weeks not uncommon.
There is a simple reason for it. Water takes longer than land to heat / cool.
So : At start of season (Dec / Jan) the land is cooling down but sea is still warm (so active weather systems).
Similarly at end of the winter (mid-March-April) the land starts to heat up but sea is cold (so active weather systems and J-Anvril storms).
In the middle of season (February) the weather more likely to be stable with high pressure dominating.
Having said that : there is no doubt that climate change is real and having an effect on our winters both in Scotland & the alps. |
Blocking highs in the uk during winter arent uncommon we had a few through the 1980's and some very cold weather, the one in 84 lasted from mid jan to late march, our ground was still frozen about 6 inches down early April, most only last two to three weeks unless they come from the east, had a late one in 2013 iirc had lots of snow and thousands of sheep buried alive in some parts, we had a series of very wet winters in the uk , ive been skiing many times in jan and not seen a cloud all week. Nothing new
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No scientific basis just my observations over 30+ years skiing
In the late 80's as a beginner when snow fall was a hinderance to progress, rather than something to be looked forward to, and there were many years in March where we had 7-10 days without heavy snowfall, but there was always plenty of snow (except one year pre snow making where we were skiing around grass.
My recollection is along the lines of 1 bad year in 5 (bad being little snow fall), then 1 bad year in 4, then 1 in 3 etc, then 1 in 1 and finally less than 50% chance of good snow. Then in the last few years it wasn't just the lack of snow, it was the high temperatures, for example in Jan 2020 we had +7C at 1800m during the day, and +1C over night to 3000m. It's not just Europe, I was in Japan in Feb 2020, and apart from one day when the temperature was -21C during the day, most days were close to or above 0C, rather than the more normal -10C. 2020 was later confirmed as the lowest snowfall and warmest winter for 60+ years in Japan.
In the 30 years I have been visiting Saas-Fee there has been massive change, with one side of the valley nolonger skiable, glaciers retreating kilometres, and consequently 9 'pistes' being lost, and all of this is above 1800m. Without snowmaking skiing back to the village would be very intermittant. I just wish I was the skier I am now 30 years ago when snow fall was measured in feet rather than inches 
As always there is a misunderstanding amoung the general population (not on here) about the difference between weather and climate. Weather is local and weekly/monthly, whereas climate is widespread and yearly. A prime example here, Austria too much snow, Switzerland none
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@PowderAdict, I don't think climate is yearly ... longer than that.
Glacial retreat a tricky element, as the glaciers have been retreating since the last ice age...
Anyway, this year certainly not at all unusual, and certainly not at all bad.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| under a new name wrote: |
@PowderAdict, I don't think climate is yearly ... longer than that.
Glacial retreat a tricky element, as the glaciers have been retreating since the last ice age...
Anyway, this year certainly not at all unusual, and certainly not at all bad. |
But glaciers are retreating faster bc of human-caused global warming. This article, well worth a skim: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/04/210429095154.htm
Anecdotally, there was a LOT more snow when I was a kid in the 70s. And it was colder. But everything was better back then!
I do think that for the next 3 generations you'll still be able to ski in most places where you can now. But at some point you'll see a mass die-off of stations that have a majority of their runs below 1600 m or so.
At the same time, low-lying coastal areas are going to lose beaches at a rate that isn't sustainable even with expensive replenishment projects.
Circling back to the OP, this year's weather pattern doesn't seem particularly anomalous, although I wish some of that Austrian dump from last weekend had made it over the Dolomites. We'll be there exactly a month from today and would like a bit more coverage, if only for scenery...
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Weathercam, Which one, 89-90? It certainly happened, I was there. The inbound coach briefings got a bit tricky
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@under a new name, to be fair most people's memories only last a decade or so 
I do recall (no I don't) when we had that amazing winter of three or so years ago ( ? ), a guide was contemplating buying a snow-blower and another advised him, yes buy it now, but sell it as soon as possible whilst memories of all that snow are fresh, as we only get winters like that every seven or years, and by then the blower will be old etc
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I’ve posted this before, but it’s always worth scanning through for the slowly changing temperature profile of the last 20,000 years, that is until comparatively recently………..
https://xkcd.com/1732/
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Thanks all....for sure there is snow in places - but this is the ‘average versus specific’ problem. There’s scant renewal happening in the western hills, and it’s this static blocking high pressure which reminds me so much of the static high pressure systems we saw in the eastern Atlantic over the past 24 months - the ‘lack of wind’ which we heard in the press re renewable electricity generation and the high pollution in UK cities. Yep I recall previous dry Christmas’ in the early 2000s with plenty brown earth, yes I remember Feb 2017 renewals and Jan 2018 dump, but I am bothered by these static systems - ref Weathercam’s observation and discussions with locals.
I spoke to a recently departed physicist about turbulence - ‘yep...’ he said ‘...the area of physics where we still have a lot of work to do...’ - and predicting how weather will change as the climate changes (great graphic P-addict) is heavily dependent on understanding complex interdependencies (end of Gulf Stream, removal of Arctic ice elbow off Russia, ocean circulation and atmospheric circulation. Global warming is no longer a surprise. Weather changes will bring a lot of surprises, almost certainly. One scenario suggests that cessation of the Gulf Stream could bring much snow to Scotland...
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Wed 26-01-22 14:42; edited 2 times in total
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The 2010-11 season had strong blocking high and no snow for ages around January-February-March too.
I'm sure there was a good 6-7 weeks without a flake in the Northern French Alps.
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Like I said in the Serre Che Weather thread, and this will hold true for many a French resort, currently, it's not too busy in resort and on the piste, though the best strategy is to get out early and ski the groomers.
That said OH and daughter just came back in and commented how icy it's getting in places, so imagine without any fresh snow on the horizon and upcoming French holidays, the pistes will not be able to handle the increased volumes of skiers, and neither will a fair % of skiers be able to handle the boiler-plate conditions.
The only hope is for much warmer temps and slush on the piste, but then the snow will quickly disappear?
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