 Poster: A snowHead
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@Orange2000 Well that’s the classic two-down-to-one conundrum: the risk of ending up with the worst of both worlds - a local run-around that’s inconveniently big, hauling around an extra 20-30kWh of batteries that are unnecessary for 99.9% of journeys, yet inconveniently limited in storage capacity and range when you do those few longer trips.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| galpinos wrote: |
| @flaming, what's your opinion on the Buzz? We have one arriving Thursday (very good deal via my wife's work). Range was the sticking point but the deal was too good to pass up. Considering a fortnight in the Alps this summer and might drive and camp as a change from our previous train and apartment efforts. |
We love the buzz, but I really hate VW's software. It's utter pants. Having now done 2 long distance trips in France, 1 alps, 1 west coast, and 1 in the Tesla (alps) I'd actually choose the Buzz out of preference, as even though the journey time is longer, due to being less efficient, it's a heap more comfortable.
We get a reliable 190 miles out of the Buzz at motorway speeds in winter. 220ish in Summer. In the UK this generally works out at roughly 3-3.5 hours of driving before needing to charge. Which to be honest is about my limit before I need a break anyway.
Last time we drove to the alps, with twin 5 year olds, we drove as far as Annecy on day 1, then finished off the trip the next morning. Hotel in Annecy had chargers, so did not need to charge between there and Val D'Isere, even going up hill. On the way back we drove straight to the tunnel, no overnight stop. Gained about 15% in the battery coming down the mountain to Bourg!
Out to Annecy we charged at the tunnel whilst waiting, then I think a further 4 times. Honestly it was a really relaxing way to travel, as the "enforced" 25 min (definitely not 40) break every 2 hours ish was a really good thing with the kids. French service stations are generally relatively pleasant places, and getting them out to run around and burn off some energy definitely reduced the boredom of a long car journey. But even then, by the time you've had a wee and bought a coffee you don't generally have a lot of time before the car is ready to carry on.
Yes, 100% the trip is a little bit slower than if you were just tanking along in an ICE car and stopping only for fuel. But I cannot get my head around people who claim that a 10 or so hour drive that you do a couple of times per year taking an hour longer is such a big deal as to rule out the other advantages that you get all year. And even when I did the solo trip in the Tesla I definitely arrived less tired and grumpy for being made to stop (and then making myself go for a 20 minute walk rather than sitting in a cafe etc) than the last time I did that in an ICE car and was just in "MUST GET THERE ASAP" mode.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Cheers @flaming, hopefully we've made a good decision, delivery in T-3 days.....
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| flaming wrote: |
| Last time we drove to the alps, with twin 5 year olds, we drove as far as Annecy on day 1, then finished off the trip the next morning. Hotel in Annecy had chargers, so did not need to charge between there and Val D'Isere, even going up hill. On the way back we drove straight to the tunnel, no overnight stop. Gained about 15% in the battery coming down the mountain to Bourg! |
Where did you stay in Annecy that had a charger? Wife loves stopping off at Annecy which we have done the last couple of years but just ended up parking in the town carparks and charged up in Alberville.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Rob_Quads wrote: |
| flaming wrote: |
| Last time we drove to the alps, with twin 5 year olds, we drove as far as Annecy on day 1, then finished off the trip the next morning. Hotel in Annecy had chargers, so did not need to charge between there and Val D'Isere, even going up hill. On the way back we drove straight to the tunnel, no overnight stop. Gained about 15% in the battery coming down the mountain to Bourg! |
Where did you stay in Annecy that had a charger? Wife loves stopping off at Annecy which we have done the last couple of years but just ended up parking in the town carparks and charged up in Alberville. |
It was the Pellican. There was a deal last year.... Not staying there this year as it's somewhat pricier! Though supposedly where we are staying is next to a car park that has chargers, so we'll see....
Going in the 1st week of the Easter holidays, same as last year. Going on a Pedalo was not on my expected list of things to do on my ski holiday, but that happened!
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For info, there were 2 or 3 chargers nearly ready in Bourg 2 weeks ago, on the main Rd near the train station. (I think, by the car park anyway)
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| MorningGory wrote: |
| For info, there were 2 or 3 chargers nearly ready in Bourg 2 weeks ago, on the main Rd near the train station. (I think, by the car park anyway) |
The high speed chargers in the SuperU car park in Bourg are a good option while you stock up on groceries, if the Tesla Superchargers in Aime aren’t convenient for you. Operated by SoWatt, but also included in the Electroverse network (including a small discount to the price).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@flaming, thanks, yeah will top up at the UK tunnel if I can!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Bit of feedback on our latest EV alps trip.
Way out, driving out on a Friday as far as Annecy was fine. No charger queues, no drama. Underground car park near the station that we parked in overnight had chargers, so got topped up and that was enough.
Way back was a slightly different story. It was a Saturday and the roads were busy with a lot of cars leaving resorts. I was using ABRP and it was showing some very busy chargers. We therefore adapted plans and only went to chargers with plenty of stalls. We did have 2 brief queues to get plugged in, but because we were at stations with at least 10 chargers these were less than 5min each, but generally this was also pretty straightforward, if not thought free. However... We did pull into one Aire when we didn't need to charge because the child who had refused to go to the toilet at the last charging stop 40 min ago was now "absolutely desperate daddy!" Figured I might as well plug in whilst we did that if I could. There were 4 chargers. 3 working. And a queue of 8 cars waiting... Ouch.
What I didn't understand was that ABRP was showing 3 more chargers within 30km of that one, with free chargers.... Were those 8 cars so empty that they didn't have 30km of range, or did those driver just blindly following their car satnav and not understand how to get the information that they need in order to make better charger choices?
It's that sort of situation that is putting people off going EV, and I absolutely get it, I'd have been upset to have been in that queue... But it also feels somewhat unnecessary...
One further tip for those with VW group EVs. I upgraded my "we charge" subscription to the top level for this month, which is about £11 a month. And saved that on the 1st charge. You can downgrade to the free subscription straight away. So easy to do for just that one alps trip. My total charging cost for the entire 1500 mile round trip was just over 230 Euros. + the £11. Which I thought was pretty good... And over 60 Euros of that was one charger that didn't offer any discount to we charge members and cost over 60 Euros!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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OMG the biggest Supercharger bill I had for my Y LR was €28, and that was maxed out at 68kwh.
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Quick question for those who know the Les Arcs <= > BSM drive.
Arrived in 1950 a couple of weeks ago with 23%.
Drove the 22km downhill to BSM, which regen'd it up to 31% . Sweet! 8% and loads more km showing on available range.
Did a bit of mucking about, then back up to 1950, down to 16% . Happy with that. So charged in 1950 (where the price is a fixed €20 irrespective of the input) to 96%
Next time down to BSM: NO CHANGE in the percentage showing, although the range increased by 20km ( plus the 22km already done). This latter may have been temp related, it's cool in the underground carpark.
So my question is: does regen have to work harder ( and therefore not as effective) when battery is full(er) ? Any other explanations gratefully received!
(Currently sitting at 80% ready for trip home on Monday - be interesting to see if I get any more battery charged on the downhill at this level)
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You know it makes sense.
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If your battery is very nearly full, at 96%, regen braking will be much reduced, so you are harvesting much less energy as you head downhill, possibly none at all.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Arctic Roll wrote: |
Quick question for those who know the Les Arcs <= > BSM drive.
Arrived in 1950 a couple of weeks ago with 23%.
Drove the 22km downhill to BSM, which regen'd it up to 31% . Sweet! 8% and loads more km showing on available range.
Did a bit of mucking about, then back up to 1950, down to 16% . Happy with that. So charged in 1950 (where the price is a fixed €20 irrespective of the input) to 96%
Next time down to BSM: NO CHANGE in the percentage showing, although the range increased by 20km ( plus the 22km already done). This latter may have been temp related, it's cool in the underground carpark.
So my question is: does regen have to work harder ( and therefore not as effective) when battery is full(er) ? Any other explanations gratefully received!
(Currently sitting at 80% ready for trip home on Monday - be interesting to see if I get any more battery charged on the downhill at this level) |
Certainly in my Tesla when the battery is full or close to it you lose regenerative braking either completely or significantly less effective, so most likely that!
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Arctic Roll, if the battery is almost full then there is nowhere for the regenerated energy to be stored.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Thanks for your thoughts.
| kitenski wrote: |
| @Arctic Roll, if the battery is almost full then there is nowhere for the regenerated energy to be stored. |
there was still 4% 'space' tho...
Don't get me wrong, I'm happy enough to have covered 22km and still have the same battery as I started with! It just seemed a major difference in behaviour between starting with 23% and 96%.
I suspect what we're seeing then - and perhaps what @Rob and @BobAlexander are saying -is that the car's regen charging, just as when using an external charger, is non-linear . BUT that doesn't impact the braking efficiency of the system - lift off, and the car slows in a fashion that is consistent, whatever the battery level. I certainly didn't notice any performance difference between the two descents, and didn't discernibly change driving styles to account for any loss of braking resistance.
As above, on Monday I'll start with 80% - let's see if the regen adds battery power, or the numbers stay static from that starting point.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Arctic Roll, the Tesla reduces regen braking under high battery amounts and has a warning symbol to let you know. I’d suspect all EVs must do something similar at 100%
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EDIT: SUPERSEDED BY THE POST / CHART AT
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=158504&start=880&sid=cc30f51740be2aae6c16cb59e4c30bf1
THIS KEPT FOR REFERENCE
Here are the on-autoroute fast charging waypoints on the Autoroute des Anglais southbound from Calais to Troyes. I’ve included the Leclerc at Reims Champfleury as it’s barely a couple of minutes beyond the autoroute exit at Jct.23
min - kms. # Waypoint. [battery% used to get there from previous waypoint]*
00 - 000 1 LeShuttle Ashford / Cité de l’Europe Calais
36 - 064 2 Aire de Service de Rely [23%]
39 - 067 3 Aire de Baralle (↓S) Rumancourt (↑N) [23%]
35 - 057 4 Aire d'Urvillers / Mont de Nizy [21%]
61 - 101 5 E.Leclerc Reims Champfleury (N↕S) exit#23 [35%]
14 - 022 6 Aire de Reims Champagne Sud [8%]
32 - 048 7 Aire de Sommesous (N↕S) [17%]
54 - 084 8 A5 Jct.22 Hotel le Val Moret - Magnant [30%] EDIT: new site - 56 Tesla SCs at the A5 autoroute exit
*[For a 46.8kWh usable Peugeot e208 cruising at 100Kph, according to the route planners] There are between four and twelve fast charging bays at these, with the Leclerc supposedly having 26, with a mix of Tesla, Ionity and engie. So an Octopus Electroverse and a Tesla account would cover them all. There are four slow 7kWh charge bays at the Hotel Le val Moret which we’ll use that evening and a new site with 56 Tesla bays at the A5 autoroute exit 22.
There are basically two strategies that one can take to doing the route: 1. ‘Next+1’ or 2. ‘As and When’.
The former chooses stops where you can opt to skip the stop and go on to the next, without exiting the autoroute, because you have enough reserve charge%. But this will usually mean more stops than strictly necessary. The latter involves you stopping only when you’re approaching a ‘recharge at x%’ point (say 20%): needing fewer stops but requiring you to exit the autotroute if there’s an issue at the chosen stop.
Which you choose will depend on your risk appetite; the sophistication of your satnav; and your battery size. I went for the ‘Next+1’ option.
This level of route planning isn’t as time-consuming as it might sound from the description. For those of us with primitive satnavs that don’t have any integration with the SoC in real-time, a list like this can be useful. Especially if something unexpected happens or there are issues at a planned charging stop.
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Wed 13-08-25 16:07; edited 12 times in total
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@kitenski, yeah, my Polestar has a bar that shows charge in and out. When the battery is over 90% then side has a hatched area showing the regen limit which gets smaller as the % drops.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Arctic Roll, this area is colloquially known as "Brake By Wire" in electric/hybrid vehicles ... searching BBW may bring up different topics for "ahem" various interest groups not interested in vehicle dynamics 
When an "axle" is retarded by regeneration ordinarily it will phase in conventional/friction brake effort as regeneration becomes more unavailable due to storage capacity limits. In other words, the logic/algorithm will blend in friction according to its usage parameters and invisible (if they've done a good job of this) to the driver.
Off throttle retardation can be one of those in profile, even if no brake pedal is deployed. This will obviously depend on manufacturer and design criteria.
There's record of problems in some markets of under use disc brake installation because of very effective deployment of regeneration to give vehicle braking, the under use causing disc brake equipment to corrode in significantly salted road environment. Quite a few are using old (well considered as old design) drum brakes in place of disc as they are substantially enclosed and fit a low use /demand profile better without this corrosion effect.
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@ski3, Mine doesn't add friction braking if regen is low when I lift off, only when the brake pedal is used (very rarely in my case).
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| MorningGory wrote: |
| @ski3, Mine doesn't add friction braking if regen is low when I lift off, only when the brake pedal is used (very rarely in my case). |
Each will obviously have their own target of course. Preservation of movement obviously highly desirable too, which will construct a use case scenario in logic.
Alot of kinetic available coming down from LA though, likely to cause different outcome in logic than more flatland operations. Most will have inclination/yaw sensor too as input to help logic used in more extreme cases of decent etc.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@ski3, thanks for that info and potential explanation. If indeed it does bring the friction brakes online when there reduced electrical retardation, then I can safely say Volvo does it damn well, particularly in hiding from the driving experience. No brake pedals were involved in the making of these descents.
(Although. With one particularly bizarre choice of stopping point in the Volvo navigation to recharge: only ONE charge point in the service station(and an old place with no signage at all) , that needed yet another app downloaded to use. Sod that. We travelled another 46km, and found a 6 bank, all empty, and on our 'preferred charger' list. Why it didn't direct us there in the first place... So not all Volvo software is quite as it could be)
As above, left Arc1950 with 80% battery on Monday, had 85% by BsM - not quite as good as at 23%, but significantly better than 96%.
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| Arctic Roll wrote: |
. We travelled another 46km, and found a 6 bank, all empty, and on our 'preferred charger' list. Why it didn't direct us there in the first place... So not all Volvo software is quite as it could be)
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Can you tell the Volvo software what is "preferred" for you? That kind of oddity is key for me when looking at replacement cars!
The whole when and where to stop is something Tesla really have nailed with predicting how many cars are travelling to a Tesla charger and auto routing you differently if it's going to be busy where possible! I do sometimes manually adjust it to try and predict when my bladder needs emptying or my stomach needs filling!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@kitenski, yes they give you a list of about 70 or 80 networks, and you tick the boxes on the ones you want - so for e.g. we have Ionity, Tesla and "anyone who takes Electroverse". (We could probably drop the Ionity as that is part of the Electroverse universe). It normally works very well!
To be fair, I confess I don't know if this is Volvo, or the Android Auto Google maps functionality.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Wed 6-08-25 17:34; edited 1 time in total
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Also: for those who are familiar with the Val Moret Hotel as a stopping off point on the route down. (currently has 2 overnight chargers), they are building just opposite, by junction 22 on the A5, a 49 (!) stall Tesla charging station. I am presuming open to all as it's EU and Local district funded.
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@Arctic Roll, that’s good news, there was a bit of a hole in that general location for Tesla route planning for my journey back home from Les Arcs. That new Supercharger (which is now operational according to the Tesla app) adds a useful charging option. I think it has 56 stalls rather than 49, all 250kW v.4 chargers.
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You know it makes sense.
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@rob@rar, it was full of yellow bulldozers when we were there on the 19th July, so that's a pretty impressive turnaround if it's available already (how we could do with that build speed in the UK!).
And it was the poster on the fence of the site that said 49... either way tho. I don't think there's going to be many queues 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Arctic Roll, went live on 28 July, apparently.
Several of the Superchargers I use on the drive to Les Arcs are 20+stalls, and I rarely see more than four or five cars using them. The charging network in France, certainly on the drive to the Alps, is brilliant.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Nobody drives from Lisbon to Algarve to (snow) ski, but the only Tesla SC site between them, at Alcácer do Sal, remains woefully undersupported. The 12 new SCs that were waiting to be connected in Feb are still waiting to be connected end July. And while the in-car system shows spaces available as you approach, there was a queue of 8 cars and a guy with a clipboard noting reg numbers to see who goes next. Just to warn you all that the system isn’t infallible.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Are the 56 Tesla chargers by the val Moret hotel (A5 Jct.22 SE of Troyes) open to non-Tesla drivers? The app isn’t explicit, although it implies that they are, given the site is listed against my e208.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@LaForet, they show available to me, as a non-Tesla driver. The app only shows me Tesla charging stations that are open to non-Tesla so unless Tesla has made a mistake, they're open to all.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Question for non-Tesla drivers who use the Tesla Superchargers: does your car’s satnav automatically route to a Tesla Superchargers if you need to charge? Can you specify in your satnav which charging networks you want to use when navigating? Could you specify Tesla Superchargers only?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@rob@rar, the Volvo system does include Tesla as a network option, and it does route me to them: as above we have selected to "prefer" Electroverse, Ionity and Tesla.
Having said that, not sure what the algorithm is to select 'best' option - I don't think it's price, as we've been directed to Ionity chargers when there's a raft of Tesla stalls next door.
But yes, certainly found some lovely empty Tesla superchargers just off the beaten track that would not have occurred without the inbuilt satnav finding them for us. I'd say its about a 65:35 split ( 35 Tesla, 65 other) in what it has selected for us.
As a non-Tesla driver, I don't have the Tesla App open on the phone or infotainment centre until I need to select the stall I'm charging at, so we're not using that to navigate (I'm not sure I could anyway...)
And I know it's a #1stworldproblem, and a minor whinge, but one of the PITA with the automatic system is how to make charging fit with your journey schedule: i.e I may have 45% when I arrive at Folkstone Eurotunnel terminal - but I want to use the natural "wait time" to fill up there - not wait 50 miles into France to stop again. Yes I know: fill up anyway, and it will reset itself, but you've kinda got to have done the journey beforehand to know that's possible.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Arctic Roll, thanks, that's good to know. I've always topped up at the Folkestone Eurotunnel terminal as there is usually enforced wait time, even if the car says it's not necessary. Seems odd not to take advantage, and the car re-calculates with the new state of charge.
A curious thing about Tesla's satnav is that it routes you via the Channel Tunnel, but the energy calculation it makes about your route seems to think that you will drive through the tunnel rather than than sit on a train using no battery.
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Just reading this out of curiosity. It seems an awful lot of faff, with mulitiple stops required for long journeys, and a degree of jeopardy on how long the queues will be. I get there are advantages (for one my brother in law filling up on my electricity when they come to stay- I don’t ask for £20 for diesel from his local Tesco’s when we visit them!) but it seems a pain!
My one experience of an EV trip was in a Tesla taxi from Zurich to Laax. We crawled along at 80kmh nearly all the way being overtake by Lorries (it turns out the battery was only just charged enough to get there) but 20mins away we headed in a different direction for 10 minutes to get to a 20 mins charge (turns out we didn’t have enough!) then up the mountain at grande vitesse but still missed dinner!
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@Doccam, zero faff in my experience. I did leeds to Verbier and back on my own. I stopped to fill up with food or empty my bladder and charged then.
Sounds like that Tesla taxi didn’t know what they were doing!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Doccam, this is a discussion of the worst case scenario for EVs: long distance journeys, at motorway speeds in wintertime temperatures. For me that worst case scenario means an extra 90 minutes on my drive from London to the Alps, which is not a significant amount of time. It’s still a travel day, that extra 90 minutes doesn’t really buy me anything.
But 95% of the time I charge my car at home. Takes about 10 seconds, and the cost at this time of year for a range of about 300 miles is about £6.50. Less faff than than my previous petrol or diesel cars. Living with an EV is a bit different to living with an ICE car, but after two and a half years of EV ownership I’d not go back to petrol, even for those long drives to the Alps.
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5 years for me, mrs endo also in an EV for 4. Not going back. Done Val D without issue, going on a road trip to Perpignan from Northern England next week. I'll be stopping every 2-3 hours of driving, ( sensible anyway, plus dog and me will need a wee). We are taking a scenic route, trundling around, can't think of car I'd rather do it in. Tons of chargers en route at reasonable cost ( Tesla and Ionity).
Yes it's different, but takes little time to get used to. Haven't charged away from home since December...
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FAQ
