 Poster: A snowHead
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Just posting this for interest / info, particularly for anyone who might be more at risk from COVID than I am.
I skiied last week in the 4 valleys and tested positive on return. Three of us shared a self catering flat and car and only ate out twice in fairly quiet restaurants, and only sat inside at a quiet bar once or twice. We used buffs or surgical masks on all lifts and in shops, as did almost everyone else. 90% of the time it was just the three of us on chairs and bubbles. The only environment that felt uncomfortable (enclosed and not distanced) were the cable cars - those were at full capacity and not well ventilated. Timings and exposures mean I could not have caught it while traveling, and the others were and remained negative, so I think the cable cars are prime suspects.
Realistically the only thing I could have done to be more careful is to use an N95 mask and/or avoid cable cars. I'm double jabbed and boosted, and symptoms are fairly mild as a result.
Hope this is useful to some of you.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Certainly useful.
In BC they have strict rules so there's little risk in bars/ restaurants, but bubbles/ cable cars seem like the highest risk.
FFP2 is definitely the way to go (like N95 but with with ear straps), but it's obviously a risk.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@turbosmurf.. Glad you're not suffering too much.
A friend of mine spent 3 hours in a small Kia hatchback with me (about the size of small gondola  ), windows closed, the morning before I tested positive a couple of months ago. We then sat in the same bar all evening with another mate. No masks.
Neither of them tested positive.
It's weird.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Plane? Airport?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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9 people in Les Arcs two weeks ago, driving in two cars…. 8 tested positive…. I didn’t despite sitting in the same car!
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@turbosmurf, I was in Verbier for a week a week ago and I agree, the cable cars made all the other precautions seem ridiculous. I felt very vulnerable with many people packed in tight and no ventilation. How did they justify to themselves not reducing numbers? (perhaps I should add I am 73)
The trouble is the back of Mont Fort and the Mont Gelé (sp?) are the most exciting off piste areas.
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@snowball - yeah, the mont fort cable car is most likely where I caught it. That was actually the most unsafe environment I've been in since the start of the pandemic.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Random guy I was in the Kicking Horse gondola with had a good name for them - COVID cabins! 
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@turbosmurf, yes, I felt the same.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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We are riddled and have some of the lowest vax rates in Europe and the resorts have been busy busy in the nice weather.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Given the incubation time for Covid is between 2 and 14 days, I don't see how anyone can discount having caught it on the 'plane or at the airport.
I agree about the cable cars being worryingly congested, but you're actually only in them for what, 15 minutes? Statistically, you're as/more more likely to get an infection sat in an enclosed restaurant for 2 hours.
A lot of research was done into the transmissibility in gondolas and basically, you're fine as long as the ventilation is good i.e. the modern 2-10 seat ones with all the windows open. But yes, it's the big jumbo gondolas that don't have the ventilation have less fresh air exchange. Nevertheless, all in all, I don't think it's at all possible to identify the source of an infection if you fly, transit an airport, go to restaurants and cafés and use gondolas.
The other rules aren't pointless: it's a matter of risk and probabilities. And my suspicion is that they've crunched the numbers and come up with the jumbo gondolas only being 2x or whatever more risky and so they go with it. But I understand - if you knew the conditions you could make your own choice, but buy not making it clear, once you realise, it's too late and you're forced to accept their judgement of the risk, which you may not agree with. And they could normalise the risk back to what it is on the regular gondolas by halving the numbers in the big jumbos (something they can do as the gates already limit numbers anyway).
But I think that it's unreasonable to go on a skiing holiday and then in some way blame the operators for your catching Covid when it's equally/more probable that you got it on the flights or at the airport or in a restaurant or even from a travelling companion.
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Fri 21-01-22 19:59; edited 10 times in total
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Also caught covid in Switzerland, the hostel I stayed in moved me from a dorm as someone was unvaccinated into a room with someone who was ill and I subsequently caught covid from them...wonderful logic.
Totally agree about the cable cars, I'm fairly relaxed anyway but it just made the other rules seem pointless.
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You know it makes sense.
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Sorry, but you go on a cheap holiday where you're sharing accommodation with other people and you complain that you caught Covid? And that it's their fault? Well, what were the odds? Pretty high, I would have said. Again, I don't see why this is the fault of your hosts.
The thread title should be 'I caught Covid skiing' - I don't see why it's Switzerland particularly that should attract condemnation when people go on holiday, where the risks are intrinsically higher than if they stayed at home.
Sorry if I sound critical - I am sympathetic because you've been very unlucky given that skiing should be no more risky than, say going up to London for a concert. And is probably rather less so. But that's what it is - bad luck. Not an intrinsic additional risk because it's Switzerland as opposed to France, Austria or Italy.
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Fri 21-01-22 20:02; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| TopGooner wrote: |
@turbosmurf.. Glad you're not suffering too much.
A friend of mine spent 3 hours in a small Kia hatchback with me (about the size of small gondola ), windows closed, the morning before I tested positive a couple of months ago. We then sat in the same bar all evening with another mate. No masks.
Neither of them tested positive.
It's weird. |
You are martin odengard & I claim my £5
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Poster: A snowHead
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At the moment, about 40,000 people test positive every day in Switzerland. So it’s hardly unusual
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Right now, almost anyone, doing anything, anywhere, is in danger of catching Covid. You can certainly do so much more cheaply than skiing in Switzerland. I sat next to my 9 year old grand-daughter at supper last night. She tested positive this morning......
For most of us, catching Covid now will just be a bit of an inconvenience. Nothing like as problematical as damaging a cruciate ligament.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@pam w, hope you grand daughter is feeling Ok and doesn’t get too ill
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| LaForet wrote: |
I agree about the cable cars being worryingly congested, but you're actually only in them for what, 15 minutes? Statistically, you're as/more more likely to get an infection sat in an enclosed restaurant for 2 hours.
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Mont Fort cable car takes 4 minutes. Don’t get in cable cars until the doors are about to shut and get out first is my policy. No Covid yet #touchwood #fingerscrossed
Bars / restaurants are far more of a risk IMO
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Apart from gondolas and cable cars, where this couldnt work l, weren’t Swiss limiting bubbles to family groups? Are they still doing that?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@LaForet, yeah obviously there was a risk which I fully understood when booking.
Not blaming Switzerland at all.
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Half my primary kids’ classes are out (and a number of their poor long-suffering teachers). From what I’ve seen it’s a lot harder to avoid this particular variant unless you plan to stay at home for the next few years!
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| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| Plane? Airport? |
Very unlikely - I tested positive within a few hours of landing. Otherwise the plane would have been a likely suspect. And incubation period would have had to be unusually long to have caught it on the way out (also the flight was not busy and I wore an N95).
Last edited by After all it is free  on Fri 21-01-22 23:31; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| LaForet wrote: |
Given the incubation time for Covid is between 2 and 14 days, I don't see how anyone can discount having caught it on the 'plane or at the airport.
I agree about the cable cars being worryingly congested, but you're actually only in them for what, 15 minutes? Statistically, you're as/more more likely to get an infection sat in an enclosed restaurant for 2 hours.
A lot of research was done into the transmissibility in gondolas and basically, you're fine as long as the ventilation is good i.e. the modern 2-10 seat ones with all the windows open. But yes, it's the big jumbo gondolas that don't have the ventilation have less fresh air exchange. Nevertheless, all in all, I don't think it's at all possible to identify the source of an infection if you fly, transit an airport, go to restaurants and cafés and use gondolas.
The other rules aren't pointless: it's a matter of risk and probabilities. And my suspicion is that they've crunched the numbers and come up with the jumbo gondolas only being 2x or whatever more risky and so they go with it. But I understand - if you knew the conditions you could make your own choice, but buy not making it clear, once you realise, it's too late and you're forced to accept their judgement of the risk, which you may not agree with. And they could normalise the risk back to what it is on the regular gondolas by halving the numbers in the big jumbos (something they can do as the gates already limit numbers anyway).
But I think that it's unreasonable to go on a skiing holiday and then in some way blame the operators for your catching Covid when it's equally/more probable that you got it on the flights or at the airport or in a restaurant or even from a travelling companion. |
I'm not blaming anyone - I tried to make that clear in my post. I'm perfectly happy with my decision to go skiing, and from a personal point of view, catching (presumably) omicron now, while my booster is still active, and I don't have travel or commitments for the next few days is probably the best outcome for me, short of never catching it.
I'm also fully behind all the precautions. I only had two points. The first is that while I agree with you that it is usually very difficult to pinpoint a source of infection, my case is unusual in that many sources are very unlikely. So this information may be useful to others who have more reason to be concerned about infection.
The second is that the full capacity cable cars are not a COVID safe environment, and allowing that is disproportionate to the other sensible measures (eg. requiring masks in the outdoor chairlift queues).
Not attacking Switzerland - had a great time and will be back.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@turbosmurf, thanks for sharing, it's interesting to hear to me at least.
That said I am finding two things #1 People do seem to get it despite being very careful and #2 There are often seems no rhyme/reason to who contracts it and who doesn't when clearly exposed
My daughter is days away from being eligible for her second jab and we are desperate for her not to test positive beforehand but it's a minor miracle no one in our household of 4 has had it yet given how many people we know have.
But back to the point in hand, one of the reasons we canned our Christmas trip was exactly because I'd lost confidence in us not getting it despite driving, self catering and basically having little exposure (except for gondola's at some point). Which I guess your tale illustrates.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Layne wrote: |
@turbosmurf, thanks for sharing, it's interesting to hear to me at least.
That said I am finding two things #1 People do seem to get it despite being very careful and #2 There are often seems no rhyme/reason to who contracts it and who doesn't when clearly exposed
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Yes, that was really my point in posting. I would absolutely do the same again, but probably would wear a better mask on cable cars and/or avoid crowded cable cars, and/or avoid crowded cable cars.
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| Layne wrote: |
@turbosmurf, thanks for sharing, it's interesting to hear to me at least.
That said I am finding two things #1 People do seem to get it despite being very careful and #2 There are often seems no rhyme/reason to who contracts it and who doesn't when clearly exposed
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Surely the most likely explanation is they’ve had it before, without realising?
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You know it makes sense.
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| turbosmurf wrote: |
| LaForet wrote: |
Given the incubation time for Covid is between 2 and 14 days, I don't see how anyone can discount having caught it on the 'plane or at the airport.
I agree about the cable cars being worryingly congested, but you're actually only in them for what, 15 minutes? Statistically, you're as/more more likely to get an infection sat in an enclosed restaurant for 2 hours.
A lot of research was done into the transmissibility in gondolas and basically, you're fine as long as the ventilation is good i.e. the modern 2-10 seat ones with all the windows open. But yes, it's the big jumbo gondolas that don't have the ventilation have less fresh air exchange. Nevertheless, all in all, I don't think it's at all possible to identify the source of an infection if you fly, transit an airport, go to restaurants and cafés and use gondolas.
The other rules aren't pointless: it's a matter of risk and probabilities. And my suspicion is that they've crunched the numbers and come up with the jumbo gondolas only being 2x or whatever more risky and so they go with it. But I understand - if you knew the conditions you could make your own choice, but buy not making it clear, once you realise, it's too late and you're forced to accept their judgement of the risk, which you may not agree with. And they could normalise the risk back to what it is on the regular gondolas by halving the numbers in the big jumbos (something they can do as the gates already limit numbers anyway).
But I think that it's unreasonable to go on a skiing holiday and then in some way blame the operators for your catching Covid when it's equally/more probable that you got it on the flights or at the airport or in a restaurant or even from a travelling companion. |
The second is that the full capacity cable cars are not a COVID safe environment, and allowing that is disproportionate to the other sensible measures (eg. requiring masks in the outdoor chairlift queues).
Not attacking Switzerland - had a great time and will be back. |
Have the Swiss changed the rules?
I was there for 2 weeks over Xmas/New Year and they were running cable cars at 70% capacity.
We also travelled about on buses and trains without catching COVID.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| turbosmurf wrote: |
| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| Plane? Airport? |
Very unlikely - I tested positive within a few hours of landing. Otherwise the plane would have been a likely suspect. And incubation period would have had to be unusually long to have caught it on the way out (also the flight was not busy and I wore an N95). |
if positive was by LFT, then it is quite possible you caught it on the way out.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| turbosmurf wrote: |
| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| Plane? Airport? |
Very unlikely - I tested positive within a few hours of landing. Otherwise the plane would have been a likely suspect. And incubation period would have had to be unusually long to have caught it on the way out (also the flight was not busy and I wore an N95). |
if positive was by LFT, then it is quite possible you caught it on the way out. |
It's certainly possible, but I think unlikely. The incubation period for omicron is typically <5 days, so it would have had to be unusually long had the infection happened on the way out (and neither the airport nor the plane were crowded and I wore an N95 mask throughout). Neither of the people I spent the week in close contact with caught it - but my wife did with symptoms beginning 3 days after I got back (she declined my offer to isolate!). None of these things are conclusive, but suggest an infection later than the flight out.
Anyway, no big deal as I said. Neither of us are high risk, and symptoms have been no worse than a bad cold. Just a useful data point for those interested or at greater risk.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| runkmc wrote: |
Have the Swiss changed the rules?
I was there for 2 weeks over Xmas/New Year and they were running cable cars at 70% capacity.
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Don't know - but they were certainly filling the cable cars to capacity when we were there. 100 people in about 10m^2 and ventilation was also really poor. Precautions elsewhere were good, so this feels like an oversight.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| turbosmurf wrote: |
| runkmc wrote: |
Have the Swiss changed the rules?
I was there for 2 weeks over Xmas/New Year and they were running cable cars at 70% capacity.
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Don't know - but they were certainly filling the cable cars to capacity when we were there. 100 people in about 10m^2 and ventilation was also really poor. Precautions elsewhere were good, so this feels like an oversight. |
Some cable cars are classified as ski lifts, and these run at 70% capacity. Many others though are classified as public transport, so they're subject to the same rules as trains and busses - i.e. no capacity restrictions.
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