So after busting my ankle I‘m looking for a cycling trainer for my MTB to use for rehab. The cast comes off in 3 to 5 weeks.
If anyone in the know can help I‘d appreciate it.
What are the options? (hardware & software) along with the pros and cons.
Is it just a straight forward take off the back wheel and slot the MTB onto the trainer, or are there typical complications e.g. offset. I take it I would need the same rear cassette?
Can I link it up to my Garmin 6X Pro watch to calc things such as cycling VO2 Max?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
4 hardware options:
1) Cheap "wheel on, non-smart" trainer. c. £50-100. Then attach a speed sensor to your rear wheel, and many of the training apps will approximately calculate your power. no need to remove rear wheel, just clip in at the axle.
2) Better "wheel on, smart" trainer c. £200 - £400 where whichever software you use controls the resistance, giving a more "realistic" indoor cycling experience. Limitations: noisy, cause a bit of tyre wear.
3) Wheel off smart trainer £500-1000 - e.g. Wahoo Kickr - remove your rear wheel and feed chain onto cassette. Advantage over (2) - quieter, more accurate power, greater range of resistance.
4) Smart bike e.g. Stages SB20, Wahoo Kickr Bike, Wattbike Atom. £1500-3000. Advantages: silent, software configurable (choose your own ratios), highly adjustable (whole family can use same bike), no wear and tear on your proper bike drivetrain. You pay for it tho.
Software, all about a tenner a month:
a) Training-focussed apps e.g. Trainerroad, Wahoo Systm/Sufferfest. Lots of posh graphs and bizarre workouts involving 39 seconds at 103% FTP and 124 seconds at 97% FTP and other such stuff.
b) Virtual reality apps e.g. Rouvy, BigringVR - nice scenery and workouts
c) Zwift. Computer graphics rather than VR, but still enough to be a bit interesting, very social/sociable, good workouts.
Any of 1-4 can be combined with a-c.
And then there's always our own @davidof's wattzap cycling software if you're looking for a free solution.
Your 6X will talk to any of the smart products. Software a-c will generally integrate via Garmin Connect as well/instead. However, you'll rapidly realise that Garmin fantasy cycling VO2max isn't telling you anything useful
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
You can get a fairly reasonable budget 'smart', wheel-off trainer from Wiggle for around £500
We got a cheap Tacx wheel-on trainer when wife was doing her knee rehab, and I started using it in lockdown - they work fine but its hog-whimperingly noisey - like a quiet air-raid siren when you're up to speed. messing with the pressure applied to the roller can quieten it down a bit but then kind of defeats the purpose of adjustable resistance. would definitely go direct-drive if bought one again, and check for Db numbers in reviews...
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Richard_Sideways, agreed. I've been through: 1) and 2) in my list, and then went straight to (4) which is a revelation. My trainer is in the conservatory, effectively "outside" the main walls of the house, yet the wheel-on model could be heard throughout the house!
However, the static bike I've now got is overkill IMO unless you have multiple users (which I do) and/or you use it a lot (which I do).
@tomj, agree re Zwift. Initially I couldn't see the attraction, now I'm a big fan. Makes me soft tho... "hmm, might rain today, maybe I'll go on Zwift instead"
I think the mid range wheel on trainers are a false economy, I think either get something like a Kickr Core or a bargain basement one. The mid ground was still annoying (loud, shredded my tyre, slipped if out of the saddle) and I got rid of mine.
Regarding software I like Zwift for racing and a few other bits but think some other platforms are better for structured training.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I'd suggest you wouldn't want to use an MTB tyre on a wheel-on trainer. So you either change the tyre for a road style one, or a specific turbo trainer tyre which wears less. You could think this is a faff. Alteratively you pick up an extra rear wheel and put the road/trainer tyre on that. Bit less faff, but more cost.
All-in-all, if you can afford it I'd go for a wheel-off trainer.
Just to add, for wheel off trainers you do need to get a cassette. It doesn't have to be exactly the same as the one on your bike but it does need to be compatible - in roady world, no need to stick a dura ace or SRAM red cassette on your trainer just because you have one on your bling bling wheels; an entry level Shimano will do
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
The one thing that is probably worth checking for wheel off trainers compatibility is hub width and quick release vs through axle;
There are a few different standard widths used; Generally road bikes are 130 and mountain bikes are 135 (I would expect, but not guarantee all the trainers are flexible enough to cope (and include necessary spacers) though google suggests through axles come in a bunch of other standards as well so are a harder problem...
N.b. I have a (very cheap) trainer, but in practice in all but the very worst conditions I would far rather be outside, and would agree that they are bloody noisy things (so if you are going to use it and can't keep 2-3 walls between you and anyone who might be disturbed, it is worth spending some money on a better one that is a LOT quieter, but this does need checking...)
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
If you know anyone who is a student, then Garmin (owner of Tacx) student pricing on the Flux S wheel-off smart trainer is £440 which is in the same price range as the better wheel-on trainers. Even the full-fat Flux 2 is only £560 at student price. Both without cassettes.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@qwerty360, "There are a few different standard widths used; Generally road bikes are 130 and mountain bikes are 135 (I would expect, but not guarantee all the trainers are flexible enough to cope (and include necessary spacers) though google suggests through axles come in a bunch of other standards as well so are a harder problem..." good point.
They went a bit berserk in MTB from 135mm onwards with 142, 148, 150mm amongst them with 9, 10, 12mm dia as well, and so worth checking to fit if you intend wheel off interaction. 135mm are now really hard to get if at all as most have gone up in width when shifting to 27.5 & 29 inch wheel sizes too. It's a right hitch potch depending on how old your MTB is.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Hotch Potch doesn't seem to be known to my spellcheck, with trying to substitute an "i"each time are all spellcheck such a botch, I mean bitch ?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@snowdave, which bike are you on out of interest? I've a "high end" wheel off trainer but keep looking at the all in 1 bikes but assuming Gen2s will be out in the next 12-24 months
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@kitenski, I went for the Stages SB20.
Also considered the Wattbike Atom, Wahoo Kickr bike, Tacx Neo bike - what swung it for the Stages was: 1) 2 yr warranty, 2) on site warranty from the Stages field service team (they mainly do gym kit) vs lots of stories of people having to package up their 40kg Kickr Bike, send it back for repair, and pay £1k deposit for a temporary loaner in between, 3) ability to add aerobars with changers on them, 4) no thick "top tube" equivalent on the frame - potentially matters as my kids are small/slim and might have struggled with some of the designs.
In the end, there was very little difference between the various bikes, I'd have been happy with any (and I know people with each of the alternatives, they are all happy with them). The warranty swung it.
Very pleased with it. Ability to configure is fantastic - both physically (personal bike-fit/tweaking is easy) and also enables me to figure out whether I really do what to ride a 10-36 vs 10-33 cassette. Absolutely rock solid, and rides nicely.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I'm drawn towards 3 (wheel off smart trainer) because - a) size when not using it. b) Noise (have a simple Tacx trainer where you leave the wheel on but I don't use because it's just too dam noisey and boring . no fancy software). c) Price - cheaper than a smart bike. d) Geometry - I'd be using the exact same geometry as when I'm out on the trails.
Is there software specific to mountainbiking? e.g. Can you race against yourself on an MTB course thus seeing the improvement in your own performance?
Ignore it. Go do www.dcrainmaker.com or GPLama on youtube. Both are proper independent reviewers, and athletes, and will give you honest opinions rather than rewrite the manufacturer PR.
@DB, I'd agree with the top 3 from that article, Kickr Core probably best bang for your buck! Zwift has a ton of races, not (m)any MTB races but you can definetely monitor improvement using zwiftpower.com for all sorts of stats as well as Strava segments.
Ignore it. Go do www.dcrainmaker.com or GPLama on youtube. Both are proper independent reviewers, and athletes, and will give you honest opinions rather than rewrite the manufacturer PR.
This. DC Rainmaker is my go-to when I'm thinking of buying anything sports-tech related.
I have a super cheap (non-smart) turbo trainer and assioma power pedals. I like the combo because the pedals can be switched between bikes and means I have power both indoor and outdoor. Also takes up pretty much zero space and can be set up/taken down in less than 5mins. Works for me, but I'm happy just doing the classic boring vo2 max and threshold intervals, and spend the vast majority sitting in zone 2.
If money wasn't an issue I'd probably go for the smart bike option.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
snowdave wrote:
And then there's always our own @davidof's wattzap cycling software if you're looking for a free solution.
A very good solution it is too .
I tested it on a pi 4, this is the Mortirolo climb. A Raspberry Pi 4; can you believe it? A 100 quid computer outputting to a HD TV screen.
So in terms of hardware I need my MTB, wheel off smart trainer, a cassette, a computer, a computer screen and a mobile phone with holder for the handle bars?
Can I get away with using a tablet instead of a computer?
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@DB, you can run Zwift fairly well on an iPhone or iPad and some of the higher end Android devices. Not sure about Android tablets.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
kitenski wrote:
@DB, you can run Zwift fairly well on an iPhone or iPad and some of the higher end Android devices. Not sure about Android tablets.
Thanks, so an iPhone display mounted on the handle bars is large enough to see the Zwift routes?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@DB, you don’t need to see routes if you are following one, the bike auto follows courses, although you can steer off it!
I’m running a 27” screen from a PC with graphics card so I’d not enjoy it on a phone screen but did use it once in a gym which was ok.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Understandably the trainers all seem to be set up for road bikes (e.g. 11 speed). Has amyone sucessfully set one up for a mountain bike (12 Speed 10-50). Is the casette offset the same?
@DB, You put whatever cassette on you want, I ran a 9 speed for a few years!
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
kitenski wrote:
@DB, You put whatever cassette on you want, I ran a 9 speed for a few years!
My guess is that @DB is looking to run a SRAM cassette which needs an XDR body - that might be sufficiently esoteric as to cause problems or at least require some kind of adaptor for some trainers.
Might still be out of scope, but the smart bike prices are coming down fairly rapidly - I've seen the Stages and TACX bikes for c. £1700.
Yes it‘s an Sram XG-1275, 10-50T cassette (2018). My biggest worry is the offset not being the same and having problems. Must admit by the time I‘ve bought a wheel off trainer and a new cassette (which might be on a very long delivery time) I‘m probably not far off the price of a smart bike.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@DB, you know you want to…. N+1, even if it can only live indoors.
Don’t regret mine at all, despite the price (and the fact it’s now £500 cheaper!).
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@DB, I have just got a second hand Tacx Flux S off eBay for just over half price. It came with a 10 speed road bike cassette. I have a 9 speed hybrid so took the cassette (SRAM) off my hybrid bike I used on my previous trainer and set it all up fine. Just need to re-index the gears to smooth out some glitches.
EDIT: If you buy the Tacx ones new they should come with a full set of cassette adapters. I think the 9 and 10 speed are similar for Shimano and SRAM. Its the Campag and 12 Speeds which are different.
It has successfully paired up with my Garmin 1030 and set up with the Tacx app on my MacBook and iPhone. Unfortunately my iPad is too old for the software.
Would second what folks say about DC Rainmaker and the Lama guy.
I've done a couple of rides on it now - pairs with the Garmin and Tacx App fine. I'm really pleased with the performance and can see hours of 'winter miles for summer smiles' ahead.
Thanks. I had seen this but am aware that a few reviews indicate problems (although the same can be said of the alternatives). I wondered if these were mainly early teething problems.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I think the automatic calibration firmware will
make a big improvement
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
are all spellcheck such a botch, I mean bitch ? 
