 Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
ze mini-Gestapo every 5 minutes!
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Prick
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| greengriff wrote: |
| Mankei wrote: |
| @greengriff, please do not visit Austria. We do not want you. |
That's very good of you to speak for the entire country. I thought it was supposed to be the Germans who were stiff and humourless?  |
You did pretty much the same thing in your responses - implying you are speaking for 'us'. FWIW I'm British, also found your Gestapo comment offensive, and I don't think you're funny either. We've moved on since the 70s, thank God.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 18-01-22 2:10; edited 1 time in total
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| greengriff wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
| Pamski's post shows how useful this thread could be but I, for one, shall not be opening it again. |
Maybe mods could purge it of the irrelevant content? |
Or maybe you could just apologize for the offensive comments.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Bergsteiger278 wrote: |
| I live largely in the Vorarlberg in Austria & can confirm that for those of us with proof of a booster saved on our phones there is minimal additional interference in our lives. (Skiing and otherwise). I’m old enough to remember the Polio vaccine being effectively compulsory for youngsters in the UK (& elsewhere - eg West Germany when I lived there at the end of the 1970s). Hence I just don’t “get” the objection to compulsory vaccination as a basis for partaking normally in society during a global pandemic.. |
Cool story, but the polio vaccine took 20 years to develop and not a weekend like the mRNA. And polio had a bigger case fatality rate than the "pandemic".
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Here in the Arlberg, we needed the 2G proof and ID to buy the lift pass. We used the Grünerpass for the former and passports for the latter.
I have not seen anybody checking the 2G pass at lift loading. Seems superfluous anyway: you cannot get on the lift without a lift pass and you cannot get a lift pass without proving 2G status.
All restaurants that we have visited required us to show our 2G pass, even those only accessible by lift or touring gear. None required ID.
Wearing of masks on lifts, in buildings, in lift load areas, and various parts of town, is enforced. Compliance seems to be pretty good.
@greengriff, I think the Austrians will appreciate your sense of humour. Give it a try next time you come through Passport Control.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Experience in Austria & Germany so far this season: you have to show proof of vax & id when buying ticket. You also have to wear a mask in gondolas. You are supposed to wear a mask on chairs, but it's is rarely enforced.
I guess the Gestapo must have gone soft?
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@ulmerhutte, you can't buy your liftpass online?
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To share France experience so far
Les arcs
Supermarkets and shops.. Just about 100 per cent masks
Lift queues non existent and haven't needed to share a chair or bubble for last two days... But occasionally lifties have still called out one or two people to put masks on in non existent queue
Inside restaurants or bars if sit down passés are scanned... Not checked if sit outside
Resort VERY empty... Been in January before but it is quieter than ever. Some bars and restaurants closed... Maybe staff off with covid or maybe just too quiet to justify
Passes not been checked on lifts but then seems a bit irrelevant when they know we need them to enter the country!
A local owner of a 78 bed chalet hotel tells us their busiest week in Feb atm is UK half term week... 40 guests.... They were at capacity from 1st week in Feb until end of first week in March in the C19 year pre lockdown
... Guess recovery proper will be a while
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@nunex, I think you'll find that the mRNA vaccines have taken around 20 years in the development ... and Polio has a much lower native infection fatality rate than (even) wild type SARS-2.
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@Julief, it's quite funny isn't it?
100% mask wearing in shops, mind you in smaller ones they'll tell you to wear it and in big supermarkets there's often a security by the entrance checking them.
Despite prefectural decree, in the streets (admittedly not as busy as usual) not enforcing ... and compliance by the lifties, at work, around 50%.
I think, maybe, it reflects a general understanding that wandering around a busy Carrefour they are arguably a good idea, but standing in a lift queue/wandering down the street they're a waste of time.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @ulmerhutte, you can't buy your liftpass online? |
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You can, but then you have to validate it, ie the 2G check, at a machine or at the Kassa. Don’t know the finer points of that process as we did not go that way.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@under a new name, @ulmerhutte, we had renewed our lift passes online and a few days before we left last week we uploaded our NHS Covid code/2G and the first lift we went to yesterday in Hinterthal let us through without having to go to a machine or ticket office. Phew - that was a bit like when the doofer works first time back in France.
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I’ll let you know about online PDS passes later. Bought today’s in the “Flash Sale” so I wonder what will happen at first lift.
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You know it makes sense.
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| matejp wrote: |
So let me understand you... When you go to Africa and you have to take vaccine against various diseases is this abuse of your human rights? Are compulsory vaccinations for children diseases also abuse of your human rights?
Or you just spew out nonsense (...unwanted medical procedure...) just to create some kind of battle between personal freedom and "tyranny" in a sociaety?
Does mandate to use seat belts also violate your freedom and human rights? |
You're not comparing apples with apples. Choosing to go on holiday (and any procedures required to do it) is a voluntary act. What the gov of Austria is doing is putting its boots on the neck of nearly a quarter of its population by trying to make their daily lives miserable in order to twist their arms into having treatment that they don't want. Shortly they will be fining them and putting them in prison!
Informed consent and the right to refuse treatment is a core tenet of human rights, established by the UN, WHO the EU and so on. See for example here:
SUBSTANTIVE ISSUES ARISING IN THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE INTERNATIONAL COVENANT ON ECONOMIC, SOCIAL AND CULTURAL RIGHTS
and here:
Tuberculosis control and human rights
in the national legislation of Ukraine
and here:
Health-related issues in the case-law of the
European Court of Human Rights
Last edited by You know it makes sense. on Tue 18-01-22 9:34; edited 1 time in total
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| TheGeneralist wrote: |
| Quote: |
ze mini-Gestapo every 5 minutes!
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Prick |
Why thank you!
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Poster: A snowHead
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @nunex, I think you'll find that the mRNA vaccines have taken around 20 years in the development ... and Polio has a much lower native infection fatality rate than (even) wild type SARS-2. |
As far as I understand it, mRNA vaccines have been used in animals for a while, have not been massively effective, and have produced some autoimmune issues. There is already speculation that repeated boosters could permanently damage the immune system. However you dress it up, these vaccines have no long term safety record, and whilst they might well be (and probably are) safe, I can perfectly understand the wish of people to refuse them, especially if you've had covid and it wasn't serious for you, and given that it's accepted that natural immunity acquired from infection is stronger than vaccine immunity.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| greengriff wrote: |
| Shortly they will be fining them and putting them in prison! |
Yes, you can be fined. No, you cannot be imprisoned.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Scarlet wrote: |
| greengriff wrote: |
| Shortly they will be fining them and putting them in prison! |
Yes, you can be fined. No, you cannot be imprisoned. |
I believe the jail sentences are coming in February? Maybe it's just for people who don't pay the fines? I cannot recall the details sorry.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| matejp wrote: |
| greengriff wrote: |
| matejp wrote: |
| Can you tell me how are restrictions for unvaccinated people abuse of human rights? |
Are you actually serious? You don't think that trying to coerce people into an unwanted medical procedure is an abuse of human rights? Or you just want me to lay out my position more clearly? |
So let me understand you... When you go to Africa and you have to take vaccine against various diseases is this abuse of your human rights? Are compulsory vaccinations for children diseases also abuse of your human rights?
Or you just spew out nonsense (...unwanted medical procedure...) just to create some kind of battle between personal freedom and "tyranny" in a sociaety?
Does mandate to use seat belts also violate your freedom and human rights? |
You forgot Winter tires… 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| greengriff wrote: |
| I believe the jail sentences are coming in February? Maybe it's just for people who don't pay the fines? I cannot recall the details sorry. |
Sounds like nonsense to me, unless you've got a source to back that up. The Austrian govt has repeatedly said that imprisonment would be disproportionate – they need other party votes to get the bill through parliament, so if it's too draconian it will fail. Some have already changed their minds about voting for it.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
| greengriff wrote: |
| I believe the jail sentences are coming in February? Maybe it's just for people who don't pay the fines? I cannot recall the details sorry. |
Sounds like nonsense to me, unless you've got a source to back that up. The Austrian govt has repeatedly said that imprisonment would be disproportionate – they need other party votes to get the bill through parliament, so if it's too draconian it will fail. Some have already changed their minds about voting for it. |
Austria plans compulsory Covid vaccination for all
Austria’s vaccination plan is a step too far
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I'd like to remind users you can click on the + beside Greengriff's name and choose to ignore them. That way you will not see the rubbish they post and the signal to noise ratio in this channel should improve significantly. I would encourage everyone to do this and no-longer reply to their threads.
Between the anti-vax nonsense and racist/sectarian xenophobia there are some useful bits of information in this thread from people on the ground in resorts. So thank you all for that.
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Tue 18-01-22 10:16; edited 2 times in total
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| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
Between the anti-vax nonsense and racist/sectarian xenophobia... |
Examples of each would be nice, especially 'anti-vax nonsense', just so I can learn....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
I'd like to remind users you can click on the + beside Greengriff's name and choose to ignore them.
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Came here for useful info as off in a few weeks and this is the only bit of it so far! Thanks @NoMapNoCompass.
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| greengriff wrote: |
| Scarlet wrote: |
| greengriff wrote: |
| I believe the jail sentences are coming in February? Maybe it's just for people who don't pay the fines? I cannot recall the details sorry. |
Sounds like nonsense to me, unless you've got a source to back that up. The Austrian govt has repeatedly said that imprisonment would be disproportionate – they need other party votes to get the bill through parliament, so if it's too draconian it will fail. Some have already changed their minds about voting for it. |
Austria plans compulsory Covid vaccination for all
Austria’s vaccination plan is a step too far |
The UK press have consistently and systematically demonstrated their inability to translate information accurately all through the pandemic so if you are relying on them it's not surprising that you are mis-informed, but as before you really should be making sure of your facts before continuing to help spread disinformation - it's already confusing enough without it!
I personally do not agree with making the vaccine mandatory, but there will not be jail sentences. From https://www.sozialministerium.at/Corona-Schutzimpfung/Impfpflicht/Allgemeine-Informationen.html
| Quote: |
In summary proceedings, the penalty amounts to up to 600 euros.*
In ordinary proceedings**, the penalty amounts to up to 3,600 euros. The financial situation and any duties of care of the person concerned are taken into account.
The fines are paid into the respective provincial health fund.
Under no circumstances can a substitute custodial sentence be imposed or the vaccination be enforced by physical coercion.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) |
* Can be given max 4 times per person per year
**Only come into effect if the initial fine is not paid or the individual decides to go through the full court/legal process
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| clarky999 wrote: |
The UK press have consistently and systematically demonstrated their inability to translate information accurately all through the pandemic so if you are relying on them it's not surprising that you are mis-informed, but as before you really should be making sure of your facts before continuing to help spread disinformation - it's already confusing enough without it!
I personally do not agree with making the vaccine mandatory, but there will not be jail sentences. From https://www.sozialministerium.at/Corona-Schutzimpfung/Impfpflicht/Allgemeine-Informationen.html
| Quote: |
In summary proceedings, the penalty amounts to up to 600 euros.*
In ordinary proceedings**, the penalty amounts to up to 3,600 euros. The financial situation and any duties of care of the person concerned are taken into account.
The fines are paid into the respective provincial health fund.
Under no circumstances can a substitute custodial sentence be imposed or the vaccination be enforced by physical coercion.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version) |
* Can be given max 4 times per person per year
**Only come into effect if the initial fine is not paid or the individual decides to go through the full court/legal process |
Thanks. Very useful. I wonder why the misreporting? What's in it for them. As you can see from the links I quoted both left wing (Graun) and right wing (Torygraph) sources, who normally don't agree on much. When it comes to UK press reporting on France, I've learned to take much of it with a pinch of salt, but Austria too....?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| greengriff wrote: |
Thanks. Very useful. I wonder why the misreporting? What's in it for them. As you can see from the links I quoted both left wing (Graun) and right wing (Torygraph) sources, who normally don't agree on much. When it comes to UK press reporting on France, I've learned to take much of it with a pinch of salt, but Austria too....? |
I honestly think most of the time it just comes down to incompetence, and/or not having multilingual staff to actually check the translations. The BBC are just as bad too!
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This thread would be very useful -- IF it was kept on Topic !!!??!!
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You know it makes sense.
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Worth repeating...
| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
| I'd like to remind users you can click on the + beside Greengriff's name and choose to ignore them. That way you will not see the rubbish they post and the signal to noise ratio in this channel should improve significantly. I would encourage everyone to do this and no-longer reply to their threads. |
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| NoMapNoCompass wrote: |
| Worth repeating...] |
Not really 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
As far as I understand it, mRNA vaccines have been used in animals for a while, have not been massively effective, and have produced some autoimmune issues. There is already speculation that repeated boosters could permanently damage the immune system. However you dress it up, these vaccines have no long term safety record, and whilst they might well be (and probably are) safe, I can perfectly understand the wish of people to refuse them, especially if you've had covid and it wasn't serious for you, and given that it's accepted that natural immunity acquired from infection is stronger than vaccine immunity.
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A few points of clarity.
mRNA vaccines are not approved or used for animals.
You say that there is speculation that boosters will damage your immune system. People can speculate all they like on anything, but no real scientific rationale or evidence that this is the case.
It’s not widely accepted that natural immunity from infection is stronger than a vaccine
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
Might be worth posting up, if it helps people to choose a holiday experience where they are less likely to catch COVID and have to isolate or infect others
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Fixed the post for you 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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In an attempt to get this thread back on topic, has anyone used Ski a la Carte in France this year? Wondering if I'll need to take it along to lift pass office to have Covid status linked to it before using it on the lifts. Hoping to get to Les Arcs this weekend, though not yet absolutely confirmed.
Edit. Also posted in the Les Arcs 2021/2022 thread.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
In an attempt to get this thread back on topic, has anyone used Ski a la Carte in France this year? Wondering if I'll need to take it along to lift pass office to have Covid status linked to it before using it on the lifts. Hoping to get to Les Arcs this weekend, though not yet absolutely confirmed.
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In Chamonix (at least) you didn’t need to show vaccination status to buy a pass, rather they checked as you got on the base station lift, so having vaccination status linked to a pass would not help
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@brownie, Thank you.
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I@greengriff,
All drugs are tested on animals before human trials
Exactly....it’s speculation, no evidence that it’s the case that vaccines are damaging people’s immune system
Yes, one Israeli study showed that. But other studies show the opposite - that’s why you can’t say unequivocally that vaccine infection immunity is better. Lots of factors will come into play including viral load, strain, number of times and how frequently infected / vaccinated etc. Many people will of course have immunity from both infection and vaccination
The British Society of Immunology nicely summarises this and why vaccine immunity is probably better in general
https://www.immunology.org/sites/default/files/BSI_UKCIC_resource_NaturalvVaccineImmunity-June21.pdf
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Tell me the difference between compulsory vaccination against measles for children and compulsory vaccination against COVID for the whole population? A few years ago before COVID, there were initiatives to make public schools unavailable for unvaccinated children due to the measles outbreak in Europe (France, Italy, Germany). Italy passes the law which effectively bans unvaccinated children from public schools (https://www.news-medical.net/news/20190313/Italy-bans-unvaccinated-children-from-school-amid-measles-outbreak.aspx).
So... is compulsory vaccination of children also a violation of their human rights? What about vaccination against smallpox, polio, rubella?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@greengriff, Please stop. This is a useful thread. Your posts are irrelevant to its purpose. And clearly offensive to many, including me. Surely you can find somewhere more appropriate to air your views?
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| matejp wrote: |
Tell me the difference between compulsory vaccination against measles for children and compulsory vaccination against COVID for the whole population? A few years ago before COVID, there were initiatives to make public schools unavailable for unvaccinated children due to the measles outbreak in Europe (France, Italy, Germany). Italy passes the law which effectively bans unvaccinated children from public schools (https://www.news-medical.net/news/20190313/Italy-bans-unvaccinated-children-from-school-amid-measles-outbreak.aspx).
So... is compulsory vaccination of children also a violation of their human rights? What about vaccination against smallpox, polio, rubella? |
What the Italians do is their business. I don't like it, but I don't live there. Measles vaccination is not compulsory in the UK.
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FAQ
