 Poster: A snowHead
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
Each to their own...
I have skied enough in alps (multiple seasons / month long trips) to know that most of the time I find 100mm.
For sure : 120mm skis are great in powder.
However they are also absolutely misery on piste, bumps, ice, steeps, skinning <etc>
My simple theory is that a ski wider than your foot (~100mm) simply cant grip on its edges properly.
A versatile ski makes skiing more fun for more me. |
I first bought the Genomes when I did a season in 12/13. I honestly expected to ski them on 5 or 6 days in the whole season. In fact I'd skied them 5 days before Christmas, and got probably 20ish days over the whole season on them. That said, I had the luxury of being able to ski them in the morning for 1st tracks, and then nip home to pick up my 105ish skis for the afternoon when fresh tracks were harder to find. Once you had to ski a significant proportion of each run in tracks or through crud, a 141mm ski is no fun, at all.
What others have said though is absolutely true, the Genomes were definitely more fun in 10-20cm of fresh snow because you didn't hit the bottom so much.
It's the "is owning a ski like this still worth it?" debate that's going on in my head at the moment though....
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
It's the "is owning a ski like this still worth it?" debate that's going on in my head at the moment though....
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Yes but it's probably the third pair owned after (in my case) an all mountain ski that is primarily skied on piste and something in the 100-110 range that will do everything.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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But the question is have the “I never felt like I needed more” group actually spent any significant time on high quality wider skis?
It seems those who have OP, Clarky, me like them.
So what is your experience on wide skis? Which ones? What conditions?
I’ve used my Lotus 124’s for most days this season Nov to Jan in Verbier. They are pretty versatile. If I had to keep one pair of skis it would be those. Closest to 100mm I have are the Kaestle’s. Great skis but not in the same fun league off piste. There’s no way I’d pick them for my 1 ski quiver.
Maybe other 100mm skis are better off piste?
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| flaming wrote: |
What others have said though is absolutely true, the Genomes were definitely more fun in 10-20cm of fresh snow because you didn't hit the bottom so much.
It's the "is owning a ski like this still worth it?" debate that's going on in my head at the moment though.... |
I have some Spoons at 150mm possibly similar to Genomes. I love ‘em. They work fine in 20 cm of fresh and are fine to get home on the pistes. But the 124’s aren’t far behind in the pow and far more versatile. I wouldn’t give up a pair around that width - I’ve had all my best days on them
But the specific skis matter. I tried the 122mm CT5.0 and it was a very different ski to the Lotus 124.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
For sure : 120mm skis are great in powder.
However they are also absolutely misery on piste, bumps, ice, steeps, skinning <etc> |
Don’t know what you skied but this just isn’t true. Posted several vids on here of Bec, North Face, B52 etc on 124’s. They’re my skis of choice up there. Absolutely fine on piste and moguls (soft tails). Not great on ice and I don’t tour on them but you could - done plenty of touring on 112’s this season.
Sure if you’re getting a one ski touring quiver you’d want something better in the skin track but for freeride you’d miss out - not a compromise I’d want to make.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
For sure : 120mm skis are great in powder.
However they are also absolutely misery on piste, bumps, ice, steeps, skinning <etc> |
Don’t know what you skied but this just isn’t true. Posted several vids on here of Bec, North Face, B52 etc on 124’s. They’re my skis of choice up there. Absolutely fine on piste and moguls (soft tails). Not great on ice and I don’t tour on them but you could - done plenty of touring on 112’s this season.
Sure if you’re getting a one ski touring quiver you’d want something better in the skin track but for freeride you’d miss out - not a compromise I’d want to make. |
Can't you just accept that other people prefer narrower skis ?
Right than turn it into an internet crusade 
FWIW : I have skied several 120mm models (volant, movement, 4frnt, salomon, K2, whitedot, line) over the last 15-odd years.
They are just not my cup of tea. Much prefer something that allows me to balance over the outside edge.
Once a skis becomes wider than your foot then it becomes exponentially harder to make the angle required.
120mm wide skis are fun in one condition (blower powder) but, in my opinion, misery on anything else.
No grips on steeps, crap on piste, and skid sideways on hard-pack.
My preference is very much
- 100-105mm.
- subtle tip-rocker. helps flotation but also turn initiation on hardpack.
- longer length (190cm).
If you do the maths that is the same surface area as a wider ski in shorter 180cm length.
The mistake I see many people make with off piste skis is going too short.
Now, I have spent enough time in alps to know the number of days a 120mm ski is genuinely justified can be counted on one hand each season.
However : each to their own. Ultimately it depends if you prefer to slarve or carve. Personally more than happy to trade a little flotation for versatility
Never felt like I am missing out with respect to friends on bigger-skis. Its not a willy-waving competition 
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| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
| BobinCH wrote: |
| Haggis_Trap wrote: |
For sure : 120mm skis are great in powder.
However they are also absolutely misery on piste, bumps, ice, steeps, skinning <etc> |
Don’t know what you skied but this just isn’t true. Posted several vids on here of Bec, North Face, B52 etc on 124’s. They’re my skis of choice up there. Absolutely fine on piste and moguls (soft tails). Not great on ice and I don’t tour on them but you could - done plenty of touring on 112’s this season.
Sure if you’re getting a one ski touring quiver you’d want something better in the skin track but for freeride you’d miss out - not a compromise I’d want to make. |
Can't you just accept that other people prefer narrower skis ?
Right than turn it into an internet crusade
FWIW : I have skied several 120mm models (movement, 4frnt, salomon, K2, whitedot, line).
They are just not my cup of tea. Much prefer something that allows me to balance over the outside edge.
Once a skis becomes wider than your foot then it becomes exponential harder to make the angle required.
120mm wide skis are fun in one condition (blower powder) but, in my opinion, misery on anything else.
No grips on steeps, crap on piste, and skid sideways on hardpack.
My preference is very much
- 100-105mm.
- subtle tip-rocker. helps flotation but also turn initiation on hardpack.
- longer length (190cm).
If you do the maths that is the same surface area as a wider ski in shorter 180cm length.
The mistake I see many people make with off piste skis is going too short.
I have spent enough time in alps to know the number of days a 120mm ski is genuinely justified can be counted on one hand each season.
However : each to their own. Ultimately it depends if you prefer to slarve or carve.
Even on a big alpine powder day you are inevitably going to ski variables somewhere.
More than happy to trade a little flotation for versatility. |
Happy to accept that you/others may prefer narrower skis but not that they are crap in the conditions you describe as per the evidence provided. Nor that they’re only justified a few days a season.
I’m quite happy to give up some carving perfection on the piste to the lift in return for the right ski on the open face / couloir. As is every Freerider I know.
Except for guides who spend most of their time touring you just don’t see freeriders here on 100mm skis. Maybe we’re all wrong but you’re certainly in the minority with your views.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
Except for guides who spend most of their time touring you just don’t see freeriders here on 100mm skis. Maybe we’re all wrong but you’re certainly in the minority with your views. |
Au contraire.
Compared to a decade ago the general trend I see now is for "freeriders" to be using generally narrower / lighter skis and touring bindings like shifts on 50:50 set ups. If you want to find soft snow & pow consistently then the easiest way to do that is to spend a little effort walking.
120mm rockered-pow slayers with Look Pivots have their place. But my experience is not as an everyday ski.
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Yeah sure if you have a one ski quiver and stick tech bindings on them you’re probably going to go narrower/lighter. And fully agree there is a tendency towards this.
But that wasn’t the OP question. It was is a big fat ski now redundant. I think the answer is maybe it is in the 125+ range but it’s not in the 110-125mm range that most Freeriders are on (at least around here).
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