 Poster: A snowHead
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Synopsis: Observations on the 4 Vallées (based in Veysonnaz, but encompassing Verbier, Nendaz, etc) following a 6 day trip immediately pre-Christmas in the plague year of our Lord 2021.
Tourists: Dad (46) and Lad (15), both good-to-advanced piste skiers and aspiring (but novice) freeriders, who have spent many weeks in the 3 Vallées in France, but never in CH.
Background: We were meant to do this trip in December 2020, which itself was a replacement for a trip to the 3 Vallées. After that got cancelled, we rearranged it into a whole-family trip to Whistler in December 2021 (see previous Whistler v Jackson Hole thread). Canada ended up being a no goer, so we switched to Breckenridge, but then Vail resorts imposed a double vax requirement for u16s to do ski school, restaurants, etc., so we cancelled that as well (having not yet implemented our mad scheme described below), but not before shelling out for EPIC season passes, which turned out to be entirely unrefundable. Happily though, EPIC passes are good for 5 days in the 4 Vallées if you book directly with a qualifying hotel. [They are also good for 7 days in the 3 Vallées and a few other places in Austria/Italy, so we still have a chance to get some use out of them.]
Covid prep/situation: This trip was the culmination of several mad schemes, including getting Lad his second jab in Dublin (before the UK got around to offering second jabs to u16s, and which helpfully also got him an EU-approved vaccine certificate). By happy coincidence, this meant that both of us had been 2d or 3d jabbed within the 4 weeks before departure and they did their job against the dread Omicron. CH did not require pre-departure testing for U16s (although we obviously LFTed him before going), at the time I needed a PCR. We were mindful of the risk of getting trapped in CH in the event we flunked our pre-return LFTs (Randox self-administered), but it was a risk we were willing to take (with the grudging agreement of Mum). Vallais required a Covid pass for over 16s to eat indoors and very loosely enforced a mask requirement in bubbles, gondolas and (some) crowded chairlifts.
Transport: BA from LHR to GVA (£££). Direct train from Geneva Aeroport to Sion (CHF 70/35 pp). PostBus from Sion to Veysonnaz (CHF 9/4.50 pp). Easy peasy and highly recommended. Took us about 4 hours from wheels down in GVA to dinner at the hotel.
Base: We ended up in Veysonnaz entirely by accident. I didn't fancy spending £000s in Verbier proper and a search for a ski-in ski-out hotel threw up the Hotel Magrappé in Veysonnaz for about CHF 110/night. Right next to the Veysonnaz bubble and with 2 ski hire shops (we used Niege Aventure). The Hotel Magrappé is pretty basic room-wise, but has a genuinely good restaurant, where we ate every night (mains were CHF18 - 45, pizzas in particular were exceptional). Veysonnaz itself is on the far northern end of the 4 Vallées; the bubble takes you into the Thyon sector, and the home run is a lovely long 3.5km (and reasonably challenging) red piste with a comedically steep last 150m, complete with crash pads at the Magrappé terrace fence. Not much in the way of apres, but Lad and I were asleep by 10 every night after our first-to-last lift exploits.
Conditions: blues skies every day, no precipitation but reasonably cold, so snow making in evidence every day. Day 6 (24 December) suffered from poor light. The week before would have been better for off-piste snow cover, and the pistes themselves tended to icy/polished by the afternoon. Extremely quiet except in parts of Verbier proper. I think we shared a chairlift or bubble 5 times over the course of our trip (Gondolas, e.g., up to Mt Fort, ran at capacity).
Skiing: We covered 292km of downhill in 5 1/2 days, with 60,000m of vertical descent. When we were going to do this in 2020, we had planned on getting avalanche training and off piste guiding/instruction. I didn’t book that this time around (couldn’t handle yet another round of cancellations for what was a 50/50 chance at best), and in any event a combination of the relatively poor snow cover off piste, and us being well out of practice meant that sticking to the pistes was probably a better plan anyway. We did do the freeski route from Chassoure to Tortin (and the unpisted black off the top of Mt Fort). I was in bits and needed to spend a lot more time practicing my drop ins and bumps technique generally. Lad, by contrast, looked as if he had spent a season in the mountains and was inexplicably much better than he had been at HT 2020 (which was our last trip). The gap is now so wide that I’m the one who needs remedial instruction to keep up, and my traditional advantage in bravery and strength is no longer a match for his technique.
Observations on the 4 Vallées: This is an excellent resort, but not for everyone: we wont be taking Mum anytime soon. In order to take full advantage of the resort, you need to be at least a strong and confident intermediate. The sectors tend to be separated by hardish reds (e.g. Combatseline leading from Veysonnaz/Thyon to Siviez); ludicrous blacks (Plan-du-Fou, discussed elsewhere on this board, separating Siviez from Nendaz); or FreeSki Itineraires (the aforementioned Chassoure and/or its alternatives from Mont Gelé or Col des Gentianes). There is no equivalent of the green sectors in Courchevel 1850 or Meribel/Golf in the 3 Vallées (which Mum happily laps all week at half term). Nendaz, Thyon and Savoleyres have some blue pistes, but these are limited and novices will face long downloads to get from one to the other (assuming such downloads exist: there is no download option for getting to Siviez (the lynchpin of the wider resort) from Nendaz or Thyon/Veysonnaz).
That said, for the strong intermediate, there are some excellent, excellent pistes. Veysonnaz (Red), Piste de L’Ours (Red) and Ethérolla (pisted Black) are superb in the Thyon/Veysonnaz sector. Likewise Combatseline (Red) and Plan de Fou-Siviez (Red), leading in to Siviez from Veysonnaz/Thyon and Nendaz, respectively. FIS (mostly pisted Black) in Verbier and Pasay (pisted Black) in Bruson earned several laps.
The 4 Vallées are famous for the free riding, which we didn’t do enough of (in my case for lack of talent), so I can’t really vouch for it. It needed more snow cover as even our limited forays required a “major service” of my skis mid week, with much good-natured tut-tutting from the shop.
Other than FIS and perhaps Gentianes, there wasn’t much of interest in Verbier’s local piste network (again, freeride opportunities would be a different story); we spent a day, but quickly exhausted it. Bruson was simply too far away for us to make a real day of it (although we made it from Veysonnaz to Bruson and back in plenty of time, even with a relatively leisurely lunch in Verbier, but didn’t really explore the back of Bruson). Nor did we make it to the Savoleyres sector (which isn’t connected by lifts and accordingly looked like more faff than warranted for a couple of reds). I understand most visitors would drive from sector to sector if doing a systematic tour.
Another thing to note: the lift infrastructure, particularly on the Veysonnaz/Thyon sector, needs some work. To get to Siviez from there requires at least three long, long drag lifts that would be flagged as «Teleski difficile» in a French resort.
All in all a very successful trip, and Lad and I are eagerly planning our next trip there (once we get his younger brother up to the required standard), but French exiles should be aware that it is not a like-for-like replacement for the 3Vs. Veysonnaz is a perfectly viable base for the 4 Vallées if your focus is on skiing.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Was in nendaz the same time, skiing from 19th - 22nd. I would agree an excellent resort for strong intermediate upwards. We were based in nendaz, opposite the tracouet gondola. Myself and eldest daughter advanced son no problem with any of the slopes but wife and youngest not black run skiers so getting back from anywhere involved gondola downloads in order to return.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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La Chaux area in Verbier is probably the best bet for beginners with the nice Dahu restaurant at the bottom for coffee breaks. You can get there and back on gondolas so avoiding the trickier home runs late in the day. The run down from Tortin to Siviez is also great for beginners. Our kids started in the ski school there aged 2 1/2!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Just arrived in Nendaz on a re-arranged (from Tignes) Dad/Daughter trip and this 100% tallies with our 1st day. She’s done 2 seasons in Anton and Tignes and I’ve done a couple of 5 day ski tours so we are hoping to check out some of the off-piste/free ride in due course but the description of the piste skiing is spot on. Fortunately there’s been a good dump of much needed fresh so things are looking good - and there’s nobody here!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I've asked this on another thread and thought I'd do so here as well: Do you think that Switzerland's reputation for being prohibitively expensive is justified? This in the context of similar skiing in France and the USA?
It's just that I regularly see people exclude CH 'because it's expensive' on 'Where to ski?' type threads. And it seems unfair to me, because you can go to many major ski areas in the US and Alps and spend just as much as in Zermatt or Verbier. And you can choose a satellite and cut the costs just as much in CH as elsewhere. Ditto self-catering vs a ***** hotel. But perhaps I'm biased ....
And in particular, compared to France, I find the Swiss ski areas much quieter, all other things being equal.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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A very quick reply based on Nendaz this week:
Accommodation - reasonable in Nendaz. Same price as we were originally going to pay for Tignes Le Lac and similar to what I had found in Italy. Cheaper than I have previously found St. Anton.
Lift pass - mid range. Cheaper than 3V or Ski Arlberg. More expensive than Milky Way.
Food and drink - this does seem expensive compared to France/Italy particularly and even Austria. But we are in self catering and will eat in a couple of nights which will help.
Overall this trip doesn’t seem out of the norm to me.
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Bug**r
The secret seems to be getting out!!
Double edged sword for me though as a property owner in Nendaz!
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On a serious note, It is, as you say, not for the French "cruisey blue" crowd.
That said, my 16 year olds started there aged 3, and now can ski pretty well anything, and it also transformed my initially nervous wife into a reasonably confident skier after about 2 years!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| BobinCH wrote: |
| The run down from Tortin to Siviez is also great for beginners. |
Very much agree with this, a long, gentle, but varied slope with a fast chair for lapping and very handy for the more advanced members of your party given how centrally located Siviez is. Would consider it as a base, but getting there via public transport is a bit of a challenge by contrast to Veysonnaz/Nendaz.
| LaForet wrote: |
| Do you think that Switzerland's reputation for being prohibitively expensive is justified? This in the context of similar skiing in France and the USA? |
For a family that would otherwise do the Brits-in-France thing in a major resort like the 3Vs (eating at restaurants, etc), it felt a little more expensive in terms of overall costings but not wincingly so. Ski/boot hire for the Lad was spendy (CHF 270 for 6 days), but he got a top end set (and kicked my ass, so I guess it was justified; am going to have to buy him his own kit soon). Our lift passes were covered by our EPIC season pass, but six days is c. CHF 360 for adults. The 3Vs have family passes that make it come out a little less if you can take advantage of them. Restaurants were basically the same as the posh bits of the 3Vs (ie, expensive). Our hotel (***) in Veysonnaz at CHF 110/night was a bit cheaper than what we would have paid for equivalent ski-in/ski-out in the 3Vs (and way less that Verbier itself), but it is the back of the beyond resort-wise, and a solid 90 minutes from the more central poudre (when available) on Mt Fort / Mt Gele / etc. If self-catering in Veysonnaz, I'd want a car.
| martinperry wrote: |
On a serious note, It is, as you say, not for the French "cruisey blue" crowd. That said, my 16 year olds started there aged 3, and now can ski pretty well anything, and it also transformed my initially nervous wife into a reasonably confident skier after about 2 years!
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100% and the biggest difference from the 3Vs, where a week 2 skier/blue cruiser can make it from Courchevel to St Martin/Val T and back entirely on skis. If you (or your party members) want that, best to look elsewhere. My missus, who hates heights, speed and the sensation of sliding, will never (even after six weeks of private lessons!) be a "reasonably confident" skiier, so its the 3Vs for the forseeable when we go as a family. But she keeps coming back, so she's braver than all of us. 
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So this gives me pause for thought, as I was about to pull the trigger on Nendaz. My wife is fine on reds, and will do an easy black under duress to improve her skiing, but would never particularly enjoy it. But she’s had cataract surgery this summer, and has stated she wants to take skiing easier going forwards (apparently makes you more susceptible to retinal tears if you bang your head).
She’s in the past been happy on most of the reds in LA,EK and 3v, but with her new found trepidation, will she be alright on the key 4v ones we’d encounter commuting from Nendaz, for anyone who can compare/contrast?
We will have a car, so can always drive to Siviez if that makes things more manageable. Or should we be looking elsewhere (got to be drivable from GVA).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Pejoli wrote: |
So this gives me pause for thought, as I was about to pull the trigger on Nendaz. My wife is fine on reds, and will do an easy black under duress to improve her skiing, but would never particularly enjoy it. But she’s had cataract surgery this summer, and has stated she wants to take skiing easier going forwards (apparently makes you more susceptible to retinal tears if you bang your head).
She’s in the past been happy on most of the reds in LA,EK and 3v, but with her new found trepidation, will she be alright on the key 4v ones we’d encounter commuting from Nendaz, for anyone who can compare/contrast?
We will have a car, so can always drive to Siviez if that makes things more manageable. Or should we be looking elsewhere (got to be drivable from GVA). |
I can only really speak to the 3Vs of those three.
Getting out of Nendaz is fine. You need to take two reds (Tracouet-Prarion and Plan du Fou-Siviez). How would she feel about the reds from the top of Saulire in the 3Vs down into Courchevel (Saulire) or Meribel (Mauduit or Niverolle/Aigile) Or Combe du Vallon/Campagnol off the top of Mont Vallon (in the morning before they've gotten too bumpy)? Any of those are much more challenging than Tracouet-Prarion (no download option, but unremarkable) and Plan du Fou-Siviez (bubble download option, but that would be a mistake, as it is a lovely and confidence-building red: a slightly more difficult version of the blue Folyeres in La Tania--a bit longer and fewer trees, but a similar flow to the terrain). From Siviez, you have access to the rest of the 4Vs. Toward Verbier, the reds are pretty wide open. Steeper in spots and more crowded, but pretty easy and eventually leading to La Chaux (mentioned by BobinCH). Toward Thyon/Veysonnaz, you have a lot of flat terrain (marked red on the map but really blue/green) until you get to Thyon proper, which is where most of the true blues are hiding (although the reds Veysonnaz and Piste de L'Ours are not to be missed, and Veysonnaz in particular has a couple of "easy route" bypasses of the steeper parts under the bubble).
Getting back to Nendaz is more challenging. The Plan du Fou-Prarion is the steepest *groomed* black run I have ever skied on (assume they use winched piste bashers). Fun, but it makes Dou des Lanches in the 3Vs (connecting Meribel / Col de la Loze to La Tania) look like a steepish blue slope. But there is a bubble download.
Aside from Plan du Fou-Prarion, if you are coming back from Verbier, that will have been preceded by a mandatory download from Gentianes or Chassoure to Tortin, as the only connections are freeride itineraires (referred to as "relationship killers" elsewhere on these boards). But you can download in a bubble/gondola. Coming back from Thyon/Veysonnaz doesn't offer a download option, but the red return pistes (Tsa/Combatseline) aren't too bad, harder than Tracouet-Prarion as they have a few steepish ramps (make sure your edges are nice and sharp), but plenty of time to compose youself on summertime access roads in between them.
Ultimately, how important is getting kilometres under your skis (for either of you)/how annoyed are you with downloading?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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From Siviez you can take the Chassoure bubble up, ski down an easy run (always good snow) into Lac des Vaux. Then take the LdV 1 short chair up and from there the long wide (quite easy if you take the right hand path before the steep bit) run down to La Chaux from where you can lap La Chaux 2 for nice easy skiing in the sun. You could even take Jumbo up and descend by the path which zig zags across the steep piste. At the bottom of that section it’s an easy run down with a stop at Cabane Mont Fort or Dahu at the bottom. From Top of Chaux 2 it’s pretty straightforward back over and down to the James Blunt chair apart from one steeper section just above Ruinettes - there is a slightly easier option on the right hand side. From the top of Blunt it’s Easy into Lac des Vaux and up the chair to Chassoure. Download on the bubble to the easy Tortin run and you’re back in Siviez. Or if you take Jumbo up for the views you can download on the cable car to Siviez. That will all be much higher, better snow, better views than going towards Veysonnaz IMO. Beginners/Intermediates can have a great time in Verbier if they know where to go
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Get up to the top of Mont Fort (3330m) and give the moguls a go. The black from he bottom of the moguls is lovely.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| james75 wrote: |
| Get up to the top of Mont Fort (3330m) and give the moguls a go. The black from he bottom of the moguls is lovely. |
I took an old school mate up there - decidedly average skier. Don’t think he’s forgiven me yet 
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Poster: A snowHead
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Thanks for all the advice (and reassurance) - sounds like there are enough options that we can ramp up the level as mood dictates (though probably not quite that far @james75 )
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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How do I post a photo on here? I have a lovely image of the moguls in question!!
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@james75 How about this one?
I think there's actually a dead person at the bottom of the mogul field. And yes, the crevasse-like things off the mogul field are, well, crevasses.
@Pejoli Don't let me put you off: the Mt. Fort Glacier and Chassoure mogul field are arguably the most difficult of the 400kms of pistes across the 4 Vallées. As BobInCH says, an intermediate should be able to handle most pisted runs, and a novice can be happy if they're taken on the right routes and use the gondolas to bypass runs like Chassoure.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| LaForet wrote: |
@james75 How about this one?
I think there's actually a dead person at the bottom of the mogul field. And yes, the crevasse-like things off the mogul field are, well, crevasses.
@Pejoli Don't let me put you off: the Mt. Fort Glacier and Chassoure mogul field are arguably the most difficult of the 400kms of pistes across the 4 Vallées. As BobInCH says, an intermediate should be able to handle most pisted runs, and a novice can be happy if they're taken on the right routes and use the gondolas to bypass runs like Chassoure. |
Great photo! still trying to work out how to post a photo on here!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@james75 I use imgur, the free photo hosting site. If you open an account and use it to post, just remember to set it so that only the individual photo is accessible, not the folder it sits in. The photo viewer has a side option to get links to it in various formats - the one for this forum would be 'BB Code (message boards & forums)' if you want the photo in its original dimensions. If you want something smaller, then you'll see at the bottom right a 'Sizes' list - you can choose a smaller format and it'll re-size it for anyone viewing the link. When you paste the link into your post, it'll appear as
[ img ]https://i.imgur.com/~something~.jpg[ /img ] but once you 'Post' it, the actual photo will be slotted in. You can't use original Canon RAW, Nikon NEF or equivalent formats.
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Here’s one for you
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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My attempt to add an image
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FAQ
