 Poster: A snowHead
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@Cacciatore, I personally don’t think U.K. will go into lockdown, the economy can’t afford it, and the severity of the Omicron variant is not yet proven regards deaths etc, but because as you say Austria is on a downward curve I believe they will ban U.K. travellers in order to protect the season for their German guests.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Markymark29, we shall see. With Austria’s new entry rules coming into effect from Monday (negative test on top of existing vaccination criteria), they may well hold out and see what happens. Chuck mandatory vaccination rules coming in, in to the mix and my guess is, lockdown in January (not quite so busy).
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Cacciatore, Lock down in January? Are you predicting Austrian infection rates will have risen sufficiently by then to warrant another lock down?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| @Cacciatore, I personally don’t think U.K. will go into lockdown, the economy can’t afford it, and the severity of the Omicron variant is not yet proven regards deaths etc, but because as you say Austria is on a downward curve I believe they will ban U.K. travellers in order to protect the season for their German guests. |
I'm not sure... At the moment the Germans can't come (not easily at least, especially families) as Austria is on Germany's risk list. So UK guests are actually more important than usual to Austria right now... I've given up making predictions though. We'll see!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I know people are angry and disappointed but there's some disgraceful foot stamping going on here. Anybody who booked trips at this time (including myself) must surely have realised there was a risk that they couldn't happen? Personally I feel a lot more sorry for all the businesses in France, Germany, Austria etc - and those in the UK - who have already endured so much. Including property-owners - with some people on other threads ranting that they are entitled to get all their money back.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| esaw1 wrote: |
| @Cacciatore, Lock down in January? Are you predicting Austrian infection rates will have risen sufficiently by then to warrant another lock down? |
Given the dramatic pace of rising infections everywhere else, it’s hard to see how it will be so different here in Austria. Never mind the risk to front-line workers in just about every health and hospitality sector. But, as I said, we shall see.
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| pam w wrote: |
| I know people are angry and disappointed but there's some disgraceful foot stamping going on here. Anybody who booked trips at this time (including myself) must surely have realised there was a risk that they couldn't happen? Personally I feel a lot more sorry for all the businesses in France, Germany, Austria etc - and those in the UK - who have already endured so much. Including property-owners - with some people on other threads ranting that they are entitled to get all their money back. |
Good points!
On a purely personal level, as we approach the 2 year mark of having to deal with COVID, our business will have endured 12 months of closure. That’s not sustainable. I mention that, not as a sympathy search, just as a fact and one that many, many businesses and people are facing.
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| Levi215 wrote: |
At the risk of asking a question that's not doubt been muted many times before, if a vaccine isn't the way out of a pandemic, what is? |
Assuming that the virus can continue mutate faster than we can vaccinate - with a vax which seems little more than a injected therapeutic treatment preventing you getting very ill rather than a true immunity creating vax then the end solutions are
1. Create/invent a full global coronavirus 100% proper sterilizing vax (ie like the measles one that works 100%)
2. Accept that we have to "live with the virus"
Given as you say we cannot continue to live with lockdowns as whole sectors of the economy will start to fail - want your car repaired, sorry no parts available and no forseeable date - tough: this sort of thing.
Item 2 means that like just in ancient pasts when corona viruses first appeared to humans eons ago; the weak, the vulnerable, those with illnesses, those who abuse their bodies with drugs etc, the grossly overweight, those only kept alive though constant medical interventions, and sadly the genetically susceptible will all die off. The rest of us survivors will continue and the younger of us will have children who will have whatever mutation in their DNA their parents had to overcome the virus. They will then in future generations regard covid as just another winter's cold just like we now regard the other corona virus and rhinovirus as 'colds':
In short much like happens in the animal world - survival of the "fittest".
Much like Europeans have a higher resistance to AIDS. This is thought to be due to a mutation in our DNA makeup possibly as a result of our encounter with smallpox or the plague in the middle ages the survivors of which continued to have children and passed on the DNA mutation which umpteen generations later gave us the unexpected resistance to Aids.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Cacciatore wrote: |
| jebroni3_16 wrote: |
Apologies for continuing the thread drift, but...
| Levi215 wrote: |
| At the risk of asking a question that's not doubt been muted many times before, if a vaccine isn't the way out of a pandemic, what is? |
I think they're part of the way, but clearly aren't the only way. People need to change their behaviour, accept we're not going back to how things were and adapt - and the big one here for me is mask wearing. Especially indoors.
Not a particularly popular opinion, but mine all the same. |
Mask-wearing indoors (shops, restaurants, public places etc), here (Austria), is an accepted (mostly) way of life now. IMO, a sensible measure, along with getting vaccinated/boosted. |
I agree, but it feels (to me) like here in the UK, most people only wear masks if / when they're told to or "have to", rather than just choosing to do so and getting on with that being the "new normal".
We're not going back to the "old normal" any time soon and the sooner politicians stop pretending it's possible, and the sooner people accept this, the better it would be and the better chance we'd have of moving forward without having to take steps back. In my humble opinion.
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| Belch wrote: |
So that's my Frankfurt to Salzburg transfer end of Jan f**ked then . . .
Triple jabbed = conned |
According to the Twitter link, transit is allowed..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@pam w, Disgraceful foot stomping sounds like another nations historical affliction . . .all those with a slightly cynical outlook must all be far right in their views ist nicht?
Disappointment is more accurate - my trips (like many others) were booked two years ago and have already been moved - whilst in the bigger scheme of things this is of course not the end of the world (or is it?) its a reasonable human response to be annoyed when the majority (myself included) have complied implicitly and towed the line for the greater good . . . .only to have their freedom of choice curtailed . . .again.
Small pox took 200yrs to 'cure' . . .anyone want to buy some skis? Alternatively we can perhaps just get on with it . . .
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
its a reasonable human response to be annoyed
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Of course it is. Lashing out aggressively is a typical human response too, but not a reasonable one.
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This^^^
Rob is one of the most rational, informed, well meant and educated person on this forum.
I undertook all Covid19 vaxx I could in order to:
1. Stay alive
2. Avoid a potentionally crippling new disease (Long Covid included)
3. Protect my old folks
4. Go skiing.
If only that damn variant would have shown itself after the EOSB, it would be 4 out of 4 for this winter.
Main problem as I see it is world coverage. Until everybody in Africa in Asia will get his shots we are all hanging by a thread.
Still hoping smth will become available. Gudauri in Georgia etc.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Belch wrote: |
| We were ALL given the impression that the jab was a magic bullet - quelle surprise, it is not . . . . |
This is utterly untrue. Last year the progress of the various vaccine trials was headline news around the world. In the midst of lockdowns and general gloom, many hundreds of millions of people eagerly awaited news of the efficacy rates of the various vaccines. I can't remember any medical trial in my lifetime that was the subject of such immense media interest. When the results of the trials were released for the vaccines - AZ, Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson & Johnson, etc... - it was, again, headline news in every instance. The efficacy percentage figures for each vaccine were widely publicised.
Not one study claimed 100% efficacy. Most people can readily comprehend this - the vaccines are very effective in the vast majority of cases, but not all. This has been common knowledge for some time. You can easily Google the efficacy rates, and read freely available papers discussing them e.g. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanmic/article/PIIS2666-5247(21)00069-0/fulltext
Everyone is frustrated with the situation. I am sad that my trip in January may not go ahead. But it seems that your - understandable - anger is behind your argument, which has no empirical or rational basis.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Cacciatore, I think so too, they will let the Christmas and New Year period go and then I predict around 9th Jan a new short lockdown will occur for 3 weeks so that then they can have all of February open. Just my prediction mind.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'd say that reports such as that gave us all (false as it turned out...) almost silver bullet-esque hope for the vaccine
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Maybe my memory is failing but I remember previous lock-downs/circuit-breakers being justified as "buying time to get jabs in arms, which is the way out of this"
It turns out that wasn't particularly accurate. Maybe the booster programme will be enough but I doubt it. There'll be another variant then another...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Adding: I assume the vaccines programme has saved lives so far but it hasn't allowed us to get back to anything particularly close to normal on an ongoing basis.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| CV wrote: |
| Adding: I assume the vaccines programme has saved lives so far but it hasn't allowed us to get back to anything particularly close to normal on an ongoing basis. |
That's exactly the point. Whether the vaccine is 100% effective is never the issue.
The vaccine zealots had pushed the vaccine to the silver bullet status which it never was meant to be. They claim that's the way to "get back to normal". Now they have to eat their words!
No wonder many people are saying sod all, we're going to ignore all these propaganda and live our life as I personally see fit.
The vaccine may still prove to be beneficial, in 3-4 weeks time when the hospitalization data comes in. But for the time being, the silver bullet had lost much of its shine. 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| CV wrote: |
| Quote: |
I'd say that reports such as that gave us all (false as it turned out...) almost silver bullet-esque hope for the vaccine
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Maybe my memory is failing but I remember previous lock-downs/circuit-breakers being justified as "buying time to get jabs in arms, which is the way out of this"
It turns out that wasn't particularly accurate. Maybe the booster programme will be enough but I doubt it. There'll be another variant then another... |
All the while there are significant unvaccinated pockets, world-wide, the virus will find room to continue spreading and to mutate. One country’s relatively successful programme, alone, won’t solve the problem. Ever.
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@Cacciatore, am I right in remembering, though, that there were [small] pockets of smallpox left around for quite a long time after most of the world was free of it?
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| @Cacciatore, am I right in remembering, though, that there were [small] pockets of smallpox left around for quite a long time after most of the world was free of it? |
Yes, decades.
But smallpox isn't transmissible by breathing the same air. So the pockets of outbreaks don't propagate right back to the rest of the world.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| @Cacciatore, am I right in remembering, though, that there were [small] pockets of smallpox left around for quite a long time after most of the world was free of it? |
Hurtle, I’m not sure…I wasn’t around then… 
You could well be right. I’ve no idea what the extent for global vaccination against small pox was. I guess the great game changer is access to travel, either ‘local’ or on a much wider scale.
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@abc, @Cacciatore, good points, thanks.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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It took a 20 year program to eradicate smallpox, and that wasn't a respiratory disease mutating every few months.
Luckily, we also didn't have the amount of travel available, so it couldn't jump all over the world in a few days like this one can.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| abc wrote: |
| The vaccine zealots had pushed the vaccine to the silver bullet status which it never was meant to be. They claim that's the way to "get back to normal". Now they have to eat their words! |
Strawman argument.
You sound very pleased that the world has taken a big step back with Omicron. Allows you to go trawling for a fight I suppose.
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| The vaccine zealots had pushed the vaccine to the silver bullet status which it never was meant to be. They claim that's the way to "get back to normal". Now they have to eat their words! |
Strawman argument.
You sound very pleased that the world has taken a big step back with Omicron. Allows you to go trawling for a fight I suppose. |
That's not the way abc's post came across to me. 
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You know it makes sense.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| The vaccine zealots had pushed the vaccine to the silver bullet status which it never was meant to be. They claim that's the way to "get back to normal". Now they have to eat their words! |
Strawman argument.
You sound very pleased that the world has taken a big step back with Omicron. Allows you to go trawling for a fight I suppose. |
That's not the way abc's post came across to me. |
It was for me, in the broader context of her posts. I started this thread in The Piste as I thought it would be useful and factual, but it got sidetracked and, for me, personally abusive. It is an illustration of the thread you started elsewhere. Like you and other people in that thread, I’m incredibly sick of it, and really do wonder if it’s worth it any more.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| abc wrote: |
The vaccine zealots had pushed the vaccine to the silver bullet status which it never was meant to be. They claim that's the way to "get back to normal". Now they have to eat their words!
No wonder many people are saying sod all, we're going to ignore all these propaganda and live our life as I personally see fit.
The vaccine may still prove to be beneficial, in 3-4 weeks time when the hospitalization data comes in. But for the time being, the silver bullet had lost much of its shine. |
I am one of those vaccine zealots. In my undisciplined and segregated neck of the woods, the vaccine dramatically lowered death rate and severe hospitalizations, lowered long Covid toll on community health centres and allowed us to lift the lockdown and return to work. It allowed us to start travelling inside and abroad. It coped well with Beta and the boosters we were the first to adopt saved us from Delta big numbers.
It will be awesome if it will help lower morbidity and mortality of Omicron as well, not to mention if it will help me get laid (now that's a silver bullet!).
Only when the whole world population will have access to those vaccines we can hope for them to truly work and for the virus to mutate less
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Poster: A snowHead
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| rob@rar wrote: |
| Hurtle wrote: |
| rob@rar wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
| The vaccine zealots had pushed the vaccine to the silver bullet status which it never was meant to be. They claim that's the way to "get back to normal". Now they have to eat their words! |
Strawman argument.
You sound very pleased that the world has taken a big step back with Omicron. Allows you to go trawling for a fight I suppose. |
That's not the way abc's post came across to me. |
It was for me... |
Some people are able to constantly finding offense where none existed. Nowhere is that more evident than in this thread.
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| I’m incredibly sick of it, and really do wonder if it’s worth it any more. |
https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=157593
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
| Quote: |
| We were ALL given the impression that the jab was a magic bullet - quelle surprise, it is not . . . |
| Quote: |
| This is utterly untrue...You can easily Google the efficacy rates, and read freely available papers |
Rather than perusing The Lancet, most people rely on sources such as the BBC for their information on covid, vaccines etc.
In Nov 2020, the BBC reported as follows:
The first effective coronavirus vaccine can prevent more than 90% of people from getting Covid-19, a preliminary analysis shows.
I'd say that reports such as that gave us all (false as it turned out...) almost silver bullet-esque hope for the vaccine In fact it would be difficult for the average man in the street to read it in any other way at that time.
And now the booster rollout is being plugged in a similar way. I can't decry that, have had the booster but increasingly wonder whether this is all just made up as they go along  |
I see what you mean, but the BBC and other quality outlets more or less paraphrase paper abstracts. And don't get me wrong, I also thought (and dearly hoped) that the vaccine was a 'silver bullet', and every day I am very thankful that I am from a country where I've now been able to have three jabs (raising a glass to the fantastic Kate Bingham and all NHS workers).
While I agree with you that many people did come to perceive the vaccine as a 'silver bullet' as you say, I'd argue that there is a small - but nonetheless very important - distinction between what people were actually told and what some (many?) people ended up believing. For instance, if we are to be accurate, that BBC report that you quoted from November 2020 states: "We do not know if the vaccine stops you spreading the virus or just from developing symptoms. Or if it works equally well in high-risk elderly people. The biggest question - how long does immunity last - will take months or potentially years to answer". Those are some pretty big caveats, so I think it is a stretch to call that a claim of a 'silver bullet'. Furthermore, the article starts by saying "the first effective coronavirus vaccine can prevent more than 90% of people from getting Covid-19" - again, amazing news at the time and so important for all of us. But the fact that it was 90%, and not the 100% protection that a 'silver bullet' would offer, was always clearly stated. I'd also say that the man in the street can tell the difference between 90% and 100% to be fair.
But I do take your point that there was a widespread conception that the pandemic was automatically over once the first jabs were rolled out, which sadly was not the case as we have seen, particularly this month.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@sparklingspringwater,
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While I agree with you that many people did come to perceive the vaccine as a 'silver bullet' as you say, I'd argue that there is a small - but nonetheless very important - distinction between what people were actually told and what some (many?) people ended up believing.
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Agreed.
@abc,
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Some people are able to constantly finding offense where none existed.
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A more tactful and conciliatory way of expressing that, if you can appreciate the nuance (I know English is not your mother tongue) would have been: "I didn't meant to cause offence and, if I did, I apologize."
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@rob@rar,
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really do wonder if it’s worth it any more.
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If you stop posting, I really will flounceo!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Hurtle, nice touch..apologize with a z
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Hurtle wrote: |
@rob@rar,
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really do wonder if it’s worth it any more.
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If you stop posting, I really will flounceo! |
+100
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+1000
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"Some people are able to constantly finding offense where none existed. Nowhere is that more evident than in this thread"
Absolutely agree . . . .reading posts rather than 'reading into' posts would help . . .
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Belch wrote: |
"Some people are able to constantly finding offense where none existed. Nowhere is that more evident than in this thread"
Absolutely agree . . . .reading posts rather than 'reading into' posts would help . . . |
Pray tell me, what was I supposed to read in to this...?
| Belch wrote: |
| Are you an emotional vacuum? Either that or you must be very dull... |
It's become an unpleasant place, for sure. I highlight a change to travel policy which might be relevant to people reading the forum, and end up getting called an emotional vacuum, very dull and having my emotional well being devastated. And then accused of being the one who is finding offence where none existed
Yup, an unpleasant place, for sure. Time to make a change.
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@rob@rar, can I suggest that when someone throws a hook in the water, you just don't bite  especially when it's the wrong bait (off topic).
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FAQ
