 Poster: A snowHead
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The classic legal case on this is Jarvis v Swan Tours, which actually involves a ski holiday, and allows for damages for loss of enjoyment. But that is limited to contractual obligations agreed between the operator and the purchaser, and promises made whilst promoting the holiday to the punter.
It did not allow for a refund or damages for loss of enjoyment caused by the actions of private or public parties who have no contractual connection to the tour operator.
As Crystal are still offering the trip, and can easily demonstrate that any restrictions on hospitality are neither their fault nor relevant to the contract, they aren't in breach of contract.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@cooperman17, are you sure they offered you free cancellation?
That doesn’t look like what their current offer says?
And what have they said in the paragraph(s) that I assume followed the one you quoted?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@cooperman17 assuming the covid rules remain the same the bars will be open. The Kuhstall in Ischgl opens soon and that's usually a raucous apres bar. There will be places to go and have a few beers.
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I’d only quickly skimmed over the half page of replies that have appeared since I first saw the OP when I posted above.
Only now on reading through do I see how strongly in support of Crystal they seem to be.
However, I think Limegreen has given the best response!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Marksky wrote: |
Only now on reading through do I see how strongly in support of Crystal they seem to be.
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I don't think it's support of Crystal per se - but being of the view that the OP has been treated fairly and reasonably.
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@Old Fartbag, yes, that’s probably a little more accurate than the way I worded it.
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| Marksky wrote: |
I’d only quickly skimmed over the half page of replies that have appeared since I first saw the OP when I posted above.
Only now on reading through do I see how strongly in support of Crystal they seem to be.
However, I think Limegreen has given the best response! |
It is not really supporting Crystal.
If you DIY it, then you would have exactly the same problems.
Not sure what OP expected out of a holiday.
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| cooperman17 wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
What exactly is "the holiday we book"? A drinking holiday? A partying holiday?
In the middle of a pandemic! |
Imagine offering a holiday in the middle of a pandemic with a covid comfort sell of a full refund.
Imagine you had booked relying on this promise. |
So you believe if they can't offer a drinking/partying holiday, they shouldn't offer ANY holiday at all?
Right, every holiday is nothing but an excuse to get pissed at bars. That's what you believe Crystal were "offering" and they shouldn't have offered it in the first place. 
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I booked a holiday with an operator on the basis I could roll over the deposit if we didn’t want to go ahead. When it became clear we couldn’t travel as there would be significant quarantine they refused to reschedule unless I gave them another wedge of cash and an additional several hundred quid as a non refundable “rebooking fee”. Apparently they had “changed their T&C since we made the agreement”.
I think Crystal are being pretty reasonable by comparison!
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@limegreen1, +1
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I think anyone booking a holiday at the moment knows there’s a chance of it being different, and that’s the risk you take when booking. We had a summer holiday this year and last year and in both cases the hotels weren’t offering all the services they usually do, or didn’t have all restaurants open. I few we’re just incredibly lucky to get a holiday at the moment. The Crystal app says under every resort that “some things in resort won’t be the same as usual due to COVID” (words to that effect) so they’re doing what they can to ensure you book with eyes wide open IMO.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I quite often see Buddhist monks skiing at my local hill. They also snowboard. Seem to enjoy themselves
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| Lozza1uk wrote: |
| I think anyone booking a holiday at the moment knows there’s a chance of it being different, and that’s the risk you take when booking. We had a summer holiday this year and last year and in both cases the hotels weren’t offering all the services they usually do, or didn’t have all restaurants open. I few we’re just incredibly lucky to get a holiday at the moment. The Crystal app says under every resort that “some things in resort won’t be the same as usual due to COVID” (words to that effect) so they’re doing what they can to ensure you book with eyes wide open IMO. |
Excellent point!
Reading the 1st post makes me think Crystal should have just said nothing, as the change isn't part of the holiday offering anyway. The OP would have gone to the mountain and find out things are different.
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You know it makes sense.
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| ski3 wrote: |
Looks like the court of opinion is against you on this one, that's the "we" you were asking about on another thread  |
That one stuck with you. Must be comforting.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Lozza1uk wrote: |
| I think anyone booking a holiday at the moment knows there’s a chance of it being different, and that’s the risk you take when booking. We had a summer holiday this year and last year and in both cases the hotels weren’t offering all the services they usually do, or didn’t have all restaurants open. I few we’re just incredibly lucky to get a holiday at the moment. The Crystal app says under every resort that “some things in resort won’t be the same as usual due to COVID” (words to that effect) so they’re doing what they can to ensure you book with eyes wide open IMO. |
A reasonable person would risk assess going on holiday in the current circumstances.
A big part of that assessment would be the risk of losing your money.
We could all sit on our hands and not book anything. Maybe not good for Crystal?
Or you could book with the reassurance of the promise of a full refund.
The following link is the Crystal holiday promise:
https://cdn.content.tuigroup.com/adamtui/2021_9/2_13/995db874-3540-46ea-abde-ad9700e27860/CSH_CHP_i4_Sep20.jpg
It is not unreasonable to expect a promise to be fulfilled.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Sun 12-12-21 9:04; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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And for those that get the impression the majority view is in favour of Crystal - search @crystalski on twitter to see how many other pissed off ex-customers there are.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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And yes - I didn't respond to any posts last night. I was on the lash
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Looks like they fulfilled their obligations to the letter to me.
| Quote: |
| Before you go, we'll let you know if there are any restrictions in your destination that we believe could significantly impact your enjoyment and we'll give you the chance to change your booking. |
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Maybe it’s because apres-ski isn’t as big a deal to me anymore, I enjoyed it during my 20’s and early 30’s, but outside of any bar crawls they organise in resort, Crystal are not responsible for bars and nightclubs opening in them. Their main focus is for us to have an enjoyable skiing/snowboarding holiday and that is my main focus these days to be honest.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@cooperman17, you don't like the answers, maybe you shouldn't have asked the question?
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@cooperman17, the refund guarantee applies if Crystal cancel your holiday, which it sounds like they're not. The T&Cs lay out the various scenarios for a fee-free change, which include the case where they contact you to tell you about new restrictions that might affect your enjoyment (in this case, limits on apres). The T&Cs state that this change needs to be made within 48 hours. So it seems like Crystal are following their procedures.
Changing plans for a group in the space of 48 hours is difficult, especially over a weekend if people need to check with their employers about changing holiday dates. My guess is that Crystal will want to keep your business, and would be flexible if you spoke to them and explained that you needed a little more time to confirm the change.
If the apres is really important to your group, you might want to consider somewhere other than Austria. It sounds counterintuitive, given Austria's reputation. But Austria is likely to be very sensitive to covid changes, in part because of the furore around Ischgl. I'm on my way back from the PSB in Tignes, and it seemed as though a proportion of Snowheads on the bash were going to the bar straight from the slopes, returning for the late dinner then going out again - pretty much as normal. So France might be more open for you this season. (Bear in mind though that some of this is second hand knowledge, as I fit your implied definition of a skiing monk, aside from being an atheist - I have not been in the apres bars, just seen them and heard from others who like a drink or two after skiing)
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Sums up a society that loves to be the victim or to be offended.
I haven't read a post in ages that has peed me off so much; People suffering with mental health, people struggling in so many ways, people losing friends and family, people losing businesses, people losing their freedoms and then we have people losing apres bars on a fooking skiing holiday
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so in summary...
Dude books a holiday like its Xmas 2019. Looks at an image saying 100% refund guarantee but doesn't read beyond that.
dude looks very stupid to all around apart from the person in the mirror who fully agrees with him
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@Mother hucker, looks very much like that doesn’t it?
The details in the holiday promise are very easily accessible on the Crystal website (not even hidden in the small print of Ts&Cs).
I hope he hasn’t promised his mates what he thought he read in that ‘badge’ ….
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@Frosty the Snowman, +1
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Alastair Pink, +2
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Exactly, so many lack perspective on so many things in life. I might well completely lose my coming holiday with Crystal due to potential UK lockdown and sure I’ll be disappointed but I won’t lash out at Crystal Ski for something outside of their control.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
Sums up a society that loves to be the victim or to be offended.
I haven't read a post in ages that has peed me off so much; People suffering with mental health, people struggling in so many ways, people losing friends and family, people losing businesses, people losing their freedoms and then we have people losing apres bars on a fooking skiing holiday |
Glad to of been of help and equally glad you took the time to respond in such a helpful manner.
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You know it makes sense.
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| RichardB wrote: |
| Exactly, so many lack perspective on so many things in life. I might well completely lose my coming holiday with Crystal due to potential UK lockdown and sure I’ll be disappointed but I won’t lash out at Crystal Ski for something outside of their control. |
Look on twitter and you will find many who disagree.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Mother hucker wrote: |
so in summary...
Dude books a holiday like its Xmas 2019. Looks at an image saying 100% refund guarantee but doesn't read beyond that.
dude looks very stupid to all around apart from the person in the mirror who fully agrees with him |
Are you American or this this forum speak which makes you sound stupid?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| MorningGory wrote: |
| @cooperman17, you don't like the answers, maybe you shouldn't have asked the question? |
How does that work?
I'm not Dr Who.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@cooperman17, OK, I'll be blunt.
You asked a question, and instead of respectfully disagreeing with the answers that don't correspond to those that you would have liked, are telling people they are wrong. So why bother asking if all you wanted was people to feel sorry for you?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Trip changed to March with £400 back for some alternative winter sun.
Apologies for triggering many of you.
Different strokes for different folks.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| cooperman17 wrote: |
| RichardB wrote: |
| Exactly, so many lack perspective on so many things in life. I might well completely lose my coming holiday with Crystal due to potential UK lockdown and sure I’ll be disappointed but I won’t lash out at Crystal Ski for something outside of their control. |
Look on twitter and you will find many who disagree. |
So what? My point about restrictions affecting apres-ski and not being able to go on the holiday due to potential lockdown being outside of Crystal Ski’s control still stands.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@cooperman17, glad you got an outcome that suits you.
I think we are all on a short fuse at the moment.
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"Trip changed to March". Assuming that is March 22', I think that you'd have been best advised to suck-up the disappointment now and go when you could. The situation is unlikely to get any better before then, in fact, quite possibly significantly worse. Austria have just had a lock-down so infection levels will be suppressed, the next few weeks may be the only window of opportunity to ski and enjoy some apres. The prevalence there will only catch-up with the rest of Europe over time. I doubt restrictions will ease anywhere before the weather improves in April/May.
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| Rareperk wrote: |
| "Trip changed to March". Assuming that is March 22', I think that you'd have been best advised to suck-up the disappointment now and go when you could. The situation is unlikely to get any better before then, in fact, quite possibly significantly worse. Austria have just had a lock-down so infection levels will be suppressed, the next few weeks may be the only window of opportunity to ski and enjoy some apres. The prevalence there will only catch-up with the rest of Europe over time. I doubt restrictions will ease anywhere before the weather improves in April/May. |
Thanks Dr Watson.
If your prediction comes true it will be cancelled and I will be refunded.
If nothing changes I will have a holiday under the current conditions. Nothing lost.
If it gets better I'll be on the apres-lash.
I suggest you leave gambling to others better qualified.
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
@cooperman17, glad you got an outcome that suits you.
I think we are all on a short fuse at the moment. |
Respect - fair comment.
Unfortunately recent events including Brexit / Trump / Scotland / politics generally and now covid are separating us into tribes.
I believe in the circle of life and look forward to a sun-lit time when the tribes re-join.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@cooperman17, I look forward to your next public tantrum in March!
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| MorningGory wrote: |
@cooperman17, OK, I'll be blunt.
You asked a question, and instead of respectfully disagreeing with the answers that don't correspond to those that you would have liked, are telling people they are wrong. So why bother asking if all you wanted was people to feel sorry for you? |
I think you were perfectly blunt previously - and stupid.
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FAQ
