 Poster: A snowHead
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Yesterday we opted on a mini-road trip, staying in France but ski-touring up towards the Italian border, close to off the back of Claviere.
We were fully expecting to have to park lower down the valley in Cervières and walk, however, the road was open with hard-pack snow and we were able to drive the 4km up a bit of a gnarly climb to the parking, so that was a result.
Had a great ski-tour with the dogs, more on that here.
On the way back down a Gendarme Dacia was coming back up so I pulled over to let him pass, and they asked me to lower the window, and then asked me where we had been skiing, then two of his mates got out, and it was only when they asked me to open the back of the van up that I realised what this was all about.
Where we were skiing was near the Col du Busson a known migrant route from Italy.
I expressed my surprise in a humourous way exclaiming that "Ce n'est pas La Manche" and as I said it I did think maybe not the best of ideas, as Gendarmes are notorious for a sense of humour failure 
But there was a wry smile or two.
We were then asked for our identity and we offered our Resident's Cards and Passports, however, the guy that had asked me to open up the back of the van was getting stroppy that I was doing it quick enough, then his colleague told him to calm down as I was getting the passports etc out and that I could not do two things at once
They (5 of them) then spent a while checking the vehicle registration/docs before they were happy, then they became quite social asking about the dogs etc.
In Briancon, there is a very heavy Gendarme presence with twenty or so large vans presumably for potential migrants, but realistically there are only a 2 or 3 places where they can cross, so does not take a lot of patrolling like the Chanel Coast line.
This is a sign that we saw on the Italian side advising migrants of the danger of attempting to hike over the Col in the winter.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If you bump into any of the migrants perhaps you could get some advise of easiest routes into various countries without the requirement of PCR, lateral flows, passenger location forms etc. 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I'd assumed that once in the EU they had pretty much unchallenged passage across it all the way to EU border (Calais etc.)? Jesus imagine crossing cols on foot in summer let alone winter!!!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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These men and women, and kids, are quite desperate if they cross the Med, Alps or the Channel in such atrocious conditions.
We watch WW2 movies about people crossing high cols to escape from Nazis or Vichy, and then we are unable to make the parallel. That's sad.
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I was skiing in Montgenevre area in Feb 2018 and amazing conditions after a huge dump…couple of days later skiing around Claviere and absolutely stunned to come across a group of 6 or 7 migrants in nothing more than trackie bottoms, trainers and puffa jackets making their way down into Claviere centre…I hadn’t appreciated until then that this was a migrant route.
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| Weathercam wrote: |
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Just what you need when you are about to risk your life for the umpteenth time, some semi humorous warning cartoons!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| patrick! wrote: |
These men and women, and kids, are quite desperate if they cross the Med, Alps or the Channel in such atrocious conditions.
We watch WW2 movies about people crossing high cols to escape from Nazis or Vichy, and then we are unable to make the parallel. That's sad. |
so desperate that they didn't stop at the first safe place?
Nobody is chasing them once they have landed in Europe. Nobody is hunting them in europe & nobody will shooting or gassing them either.
Opening up a european processing centres wouldn't work either, as that could open floodgates of refugees/migrants/asylum seekers or anyone else who prefer to be in a different country, if it means they only have to make a shop hop across the relatively calm med.
The problem is not fixable, which is why it gets kicked around, finger pointing & blaming each other.
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@Mr.Egg, define safe. One persons safe is another persons hell. Anyone has the right to claim asylum where they choose - the Dublin regulation does not overturn that. You’re a father no? Imagine what has to happen in your life for putting your baby in a dinghy to cross a major shipping lane to become your best option. As we say in NI - wise up.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
| define safe. One persons safe is another persons hell. |
Is France such a hellish place?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| abc wrote: |
| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
| define safe. One persons safe is another persons hell. |
Is France such a hellish place? |
I Italy is, since they come from Italy into France. On the other hand, if you ever have been at the border in Menton, and look up the mountain, you will discover that it really isn’t happy times for immigrants on the italian side. Just saying!
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@abc, have you seen the migrant camps? Looks hellish to me. They don't magically get a lovely place in the french countryside if they don’t choose a tent in calais. Many have family or connections in the UK, speak the language, have a chance of transferring their skills in some cases.
I’d aim for where I knew someone, where I spoke the language.
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You know it makes sense.
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| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| patrick! wrote: |
These men and women, and kids, are quite desperate if they cross the Med, Alps or the Channel in such atrocious conditions.
We watch WW2 movies about people crossing high cols to escape from Nazis or Vichy, and then we are unable to make the parallel. That's sad. |
so desperate that they didn't stop at the first safe place?
Nobody is chasing them once they have landed in Europe. Nobody is hunting them in europe & nobody will shooting or gassing them either.
Opening up a european processing centres wouldn't work either, as that could open floodgates of refugees/migrants/asylum seekers or anyone else who prefer to be in a different country, if it means they only have to make a shop hop across the relatively calm med.
The problem is not fixable, which is why it gets kicked around, finger pointing & blaming each other. |
You know that under international law, there is NO compulsion to claim asylum in the "first safe place", don't you? Or have you swallowed the daily fail bull whole and entire?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
| You know that under international law, there is NO compulsion to claim asylum in the "first safe place", don't you? Or have you swallowed the daily fail bull whole and entire? |
Maybe not, but the more "safe" Countries you travel through before applying, the more likely you will appear to be an economic migrant, rather than a "genuine" asylum seeker.
Many of these people come from North African Countries, that, traditionally have more links with France than the UK. Many speak French as their second language, and most likely have contacts/family there.
If they apply for asylum in any of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th EU Countries they pass through, and it is granted, they can settle practically anywhere in the EU. They can then legally apply to join family in the UK.
Are you implying that the ONLY "safe" place for an application in Western Europe is the UK?
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Poster: A snowHead
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As pointed out by a French Minister over the weekend, they want to come here because they don't need the same work permits as in France. They check migrant worker documents regularly. When we do it, we are accused of being "Institutionally racist".
They don't have any money to pay the traffickers in advance. The will owe, and be paying it off for years, possibly the rest of their lives.
They are probably told/forced to come to the UK by the traffickers, who want to be paid back plus interst in a way that they can be monitored.
When they get here, they invariably end up working (probably in conjunction with the traffickers) in sweat shops run by their own countrymen, where they are paid pathetically low wages, with no rights, and no chance of moving to a better job.
When they are "rescued" from these conditions, they make an application, but invariably disappear back into the black labour market to pay off their debts. Family at home (especially with far east migrants) are the blackmail.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Huh. Hiked the chenaillet oit of montgenevre past summer, on the way down we were met with gendarmerie who asked if we had seen a group of four men, I was dumbfounded.
It only hits me now after reading this thread they were looking for refugees....
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There are a couple of documentaries about people crossing from Italy to France in winter, they are on YouTube still I think. Certainly makes you think about the lives some of us lead and the lives of others.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The thing is the Col du Montgenevre is well-policed, and even if they try crossing the border along the golf course/cross country piste below the road they can be seen, though if it were me I'd just stick to the trees, but the snow would be way deeper.
That then leaves the Col Echelle which is accessed from Bardonecchia, which many do as it's a road all the way, but again it's easier to Police, more easily from the Italian side
Then there's the Col du Bousson, which again is easy to Police from the Italian side, but the crux is, you do not see anywhere near the number of Italian Police vehicles in the area compared to on the French side, so being a tad controversial, it's a tad similar to the French Police at Calais may be turning more of a blind eye to the goings on???
I do not know what is more dangerous, or what I'd do if I had to, crossing the Channel in an inflatable, packed to the gunnels with a tiny outboard, or hiking up over the Cols?
It is desperation that we can't imagine.
The Cols used
And zoomed in on the Bousson
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
@abc, have you seen the migrant camps? Looks hellish to me. They don't magically get a lovely place in the french countryside if they don’t choose a tent in calais. Many have family or connections in the UK, speak the language, have a chance of transferring their skills in some cases.
I’d aim for where I knew someone, where I spoke the language. |
So would I.
France isn't so bad for migrants, compared with, say, eastern Europe. But it's really hard to work off the books here, and French is not a common second language the way English is. Plus, the UK is much more prosperous overall than France so economic opportunities are better. My wife is a journalist based in Paris who has covered migration extensively. The UK is the promised land for Syrian/Afghan/non-Francophone Africa migrants, especially now that Germany has largely closed its doors, she tells me, and even if the French government can offer some asylum spaces, migrants still strongly prefer to chance the UK passage.
As I said, intractable problem at this point. I've come around to the view that the best we can do is to prevent unnecessary suffering.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
@Mr.Egg, define safe. One persons safe is another persons hell. Anyone has the right to claim asylum where they choose - the Dublin regulation does not overturn that. You’re a father no? Imagine what has to happen in your life for putting your baby in a dinghy to cross a major shipping lane to become your best option. As we say in NI - wise up.
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Totally agree @Nadenoodlee.
@Mr.Egg, get back to your Daily Mail.
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2 years ago I crossed Col de Montgrenevre quite a few times and was always surmpried by the VERY heavy customs and police presense.
In march 2020 as covid began to take hold I had a difficult time getting off the Autostrada as they had shut the Frejus Tunnel and the HGV's had backed up 10km beyond the exit. Climbing the col I saw almost no one, but at te top there were 8 armed Douannes greating me and the parking lot had 20+ Gendarmerie vans in it!
I had a very obviously empty VW Transporter, skis, boots one bag n backpack in a big empt space, so no hassle for me.
But everyone else was having to (at least half) empty very heavily loaded cars!.....A week later we were all locked down.
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The police must have changed their procedures, as we saw numerous refugees walking up the road from Claviere to Montgenevre two winters ago, approaching the border posts.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Pasigal wrote: |
| Nadenoodlee wrote: |
@abc, have you seen the migrant camps? Looks hellish to me. They don't magically get a lovely place in the french countryside if they don’t choose a tent in calais. Many have family or connections in the UK, speak the language, have a chance of transferring their skills in some cases.
I’d aim for where I knew someone, where I spoke the language. |
So would I.
France isn't so bad for migrants, compared with, say, eastern Europe. But it's really hard to work off the books here, and French is not a common second language the way English is. Plus, the UK is much more prosperous overall than France so economic opportunities are better. My wife is a journalist based in Paris who has covered migration extensively. The UK is the promised land for Syrian/Afghan/non-Francophone Africa migrants, especially now that Germany has largely closed its doors, she tells me, and even if the French government can offer some asylum spaces, migrants still strongly prefer to chance the UK passage.
As I said, intractable problem at this point. I've come around to the view that the best we can do is to prevent unnecessary suffering. |
That strikes me as economic migrant to me.
They may have been refugee when they left Africa. They're not any more once they arrived at France.
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