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Of interest to potential season workers

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
https://www.planksclothing.com/blogs/the-shread-thread/the-post-brexit-ski-season
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I just get ' that page is missing' ??
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Hard to find as the link somehow reverts to their home page. But in summary the article sez "Fuggedaboutit - 90 days in 180 as a holidaymaker only is what you can hope for as a UK citizen"

My interpretation - death of any surviving cheapish chalet operators but I guess most are dead already.
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
End of an era, it would seem? I never bought the arguments about "helpless child labour being exploited by ruthless tour operators". As a frequent consumer of cheap chalet holidays I generally admired the job the kids were doing, and how much value they got out of the experience - what basically-paid low-skilled job in the UK would provide such a high fun quotient? when my son, an excellent chef, was mucked around by one of the very high-end British tour operators he just told them to stick their job and went freelance, spending the whole season in Val d'Isere cooking - mostly for French people - and getting on the books of a staffing agency. He subsequently worked in private chalets, including for wealthy Parisian banker. He had a ball, and was well paid. He now has kids, and a mortgage, and all the rest of it. But his times of "seasonal working" in the Alps were terrific. No way was he exploited. When I worked on interviewing candidates for Fast Stream appointments to the civil service I interviewed some less skilled people who had done low-paid seasons with British tour operators (the sort you see round a big French supermarket with trolleys full of pasta etc) and the best of them had clearly got a great deal out of the job. It's a shame that those jobs have disappeared.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Home page, down to the bottom to the shred thread.

https://www.planksclothing.com/blogs/the-shred-thread/the-post-brexit-ski-season
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
I think article is one sided and one dimensional. (They have acknowledged SBIT as a source)
You reap what you sew.
Whilst it's undeniably true that Brexit has made it difficult for British seasonaires to get workin France, it fails to mention once that for decades prior to Brexit, a huge amount of the seasonaire jobs were based on British companies flouting the the laws on posted workers, or just using UK contracts for services delivered in France.
What @pam w says is very true, that there is a vast number of people who are willing to work for UK wages, a lift pass and accommodation and that's fine, all the time things are going well, everybody is benefitting, and the arrangements aren't scrutinised that much.
Brexit shone a light on this and the French authorities started requiring people working in France to be on the French contracts (how very dare they) , to be paid French wages, to pay French social contributions, to be subject to medicine de travail, to benefit from paid holiday at the end of the contract, to only work 35 hours, to have paid overtime ... In fact to look after workers and their rights, and for them to be treated like indigenous workers. Some roles even required qualifications such as ski guiding, a professional driving qualification, a childcare qualification etc..
All of which is excellent - unless you have to pass the cost of this onto your customers.
I don't believe seasonaires were being exploited on a large scale, as you are free to quit and head home if you don't like the conditions, but it led to an un-even playing field in the view of local businesses.
I think the aim of SBIT is admirable, and anything that facilitates and expedites work visas / permits benefits everybody.
The article explains the current set up which does offer good conditions for workers, as they are employed by EU based companies on EU contracts.
But by solely blaming Brexit, and failing to acknowledge the deep structural issues with the previous employment model, they are still in denial.
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Friends daughter applied to a well know Meribel Chalet Operator / Tour Op.

Was given the job, then rescinded due to the 90days rule.

Then back in October was approached and told that they would sort her work visa out.

She spent 9hrs in the French Embassy, and was unable to use her mobile, must have been one hell of an arduous ordeal for her Laughing

So she is now sorted, and on a French contract, pay was €385 a week and two days off.

And now the interesting part, she no longer gets a lift pass, ski hire and has to pay towards accommodation, think her Dad told me amounts to some €3k

So would seem that to be a Chalet Girl now you might have to have to use the Bank of Parents more than ever Laughing
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Weathercam wrote:
Then back in October was approached and told that they would sort her work visa out.

So she is now sorted, and on a French contract, pay was €385 a week and two days off.

And now the interesting part, she no longer gets a lift pass, ski hire and has to pay towards accommodation, think her Dad told me amounts to some €3k

So would seem that to be a Chalet Girl now you might have to have to use the Bank of Parents more than ever Laughing


That's interesting and cool that it worked out; maybe you can ask them to post some details here of how they arranged the work visa, to help other prospective seasonaires?

I don't understand the bank of mum and dad bit though. €1540 (assume that's net?) a month (+ tips) is probably triple what most UK seasonaires used to earn, and EASILY enough to pay for rent, lift pass and skis. Rather than relying on Bank of Mum and Dad more than ever, sounds more like more lucrative and fair than ever?! 2 days off too. Sounds way better than the old standard UK TO deal on every level tbh, well done her!
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@clarky999, it wasn't her who arranged the Visa it was the Chalet Op - she just turned up at the embassy.

The Chalet Op is quite High end hence I'm not naming them as I don't want it to come back on her in any way.

She'd have to go to Bank of Mum and Dad to get the money up front for all the expenses
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
clarky999 wrote:
Weathercam wrote:
Then back in October was approached and told that they would sort her work visa out.

So she is now sorted, and on a French contract, pay was €385 a week and two days off.

And now the interesting part, she no longer gets a lift pass, ski hire and has to pay towards accommodation, think her Dad told me amounts to some €3k

So would seem that to be a Chalet Girl now you might have to have to use the Bank of Parents more than ever Laughing


That's interesting and cool that it worked out; maybe you can ask them to post some details here of how they arranged the work visa, to help other prospective seasonaires?

I don't understand the bank of mum and dad bit though. €1540 (assume that's net?) a month (+ tips) is probably triple what most UK seasonaires used to earn, and EASILY enough to pay for rent, lift pass and skis. Rather than relying on Bank of Mum and Dad more than ever, sounds more like more lucrative and fair than ever?! 2 days off too. Sounds way better than the old standard UK TO deal on every level tbh, well done her!


One of the biggest challenges for seasonal workers is cash flow.

Having to pay for travel; possibly first month (or two) of accommodation; and ski pass prior to earning 1 euro is very difficult.
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Mike Pow wrote:
clarky999 wrote:
Weathercam wrote:
Then back in October was approached and told that they would sort her work visa out.

So she is now sorted, and on a French contract, pay was €385 a week and two days off.

And now the interesting part, she no longer gets a lift pass, ski hire and has to pay towards accommodation, think her Dad told me amounts to some €3k

So would seem that to be a Chalet Girl now you might have to have to use the Bank of Parents more than ever Laughing


That's interesting and cool that it worked out; maybe you can ask them to post some details here of how they arranged the work visa, to help other prospective seasonaires?

I don't understand the bank of mum and dad bit though. €1540 (assume that's net?) a month (+ tips) is probably triple what most UK seasonaires used to earn, and EASILY enough to pay for rent, lift pass and skis. Rather than relying on Bank of Mum and Dad more than ever, sounds more like more lucrative and fair than ever?! 2 days off too. Sounds way better than the old standard UK TO deal on every level tbh, well done her!


One of the biggest challenges for seasonal workers is cash flow.

Having to pay for travel; possibly first month (or two) of accommodation; and ski pass prior to earning 1 euro is very difficult.


I've been there and done that (after school) and, admittedly while living in my parents house rent-free, it wasn't that hard to save starting from right after exams finished. I can imagine in corona times maybe harder to find in-between shoulder season work though (even if it sounds like bars and restaurants are crying out for staff everywhere), and tbf if she only had notice from October it would definitely be a challenge to get that sort of money together.

On the flip side, earning €1500+tips a month over a season is enough to live well and easily save for the next season. Actually it makes multiple seasons a reasonable prospect without compromising future finances too much at all.
snow report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
She does have to "pay towards accommodation" too. But then so does 'most everyone else. I remember my daughter, at 16, starting to get holiday jobs and being terribly thrilled how fast her savings stacked up. She looked a bit crestfallen when I reminded her that she was getting free board and lodging.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
pam w wrote:
She does have to "pay towards accommodation" too.


Bet she will still be left with ~€5-600 a month more than seasonnaires on typical UK TO packages though! Or with tips in a high end chalet, probably more.

I bet with tips that comes out around €1800-2k a month net. That's a decent income! €500/month for a room, €240 month for food, €150 a month (spread over the season) for lift pass. Around a grand disposable income a month left over. Old UK TO package would leave, what €4-500 a month? And more time off and no doubt fewer hours.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Even at 1500 pm, thats actually costing the employer around 2500 pm, if the employer contributes to the accommodation and food as well, then they have to pay the cotisations on that too as its part of the remuneration, so most likely this is costing them around 3k per month or 15k for the season (plus the cost of the food and accommodation).
You can see why only high end operations are able to do this.

Absolutely fair play to both your friends daughter for not being put off by this, or the employer for following it thru.
I hope she has a fantastic season.

Really it's not a lot different from getting a Swiss work permit (which goes back to the 80s), where you get the offer of a job, the employer sorts out your permit and sends you the contract and permit in the post, you can then enter the country (when I got mine you needed a medical / chest x-ray at point of entry to validate the work permit).
The main difference here is that instead of the medical, you need to go to the consulate.

@Mike Pow, says cash flow is king, which is why employers tell staff upfront that they will need x amount for a lift pass, y amount for skis (or take their own), and some money to live off until the first pay day.

I remember my employer loaning 2 seasonaires the money for a local season pass (not Full PdS) so that they would be out on the slopes and not kicking round the apartment for the first month.

If you have a fixed start date, then you just need to find as much temporary work in the weeks before you leave uk, or make sure you've got some head room on your credit card.
ski holidays
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
For those who can't open it:-
This time of year would normally see thousands of young Brits jetting off to the Alps, with 5 months of parties, pêche and powder awaiting them. But, the ski season as we know it, has been butchered by BREXIT. Whilst it is all very messy, there is hope for future seasons and aspiring seasonnaires.

There are many questions on the tip of every ski-fanatics' tongues; Is the ski season going ahead? Can I do a ski season in Europe with a UK passport? Can I apply for a working visa? Can we enter a parallel universe where Brexit does not exist and start afresh?

We are here to get the facts straight.


“how long can i stay in the eu without a visa?”
Thanks to the 90 Day Schengen Rule, Brits can stay in the Schengen area for up to 90 days in a 180-day period. During those 90 days, they are welcome to eat, sleep, shred and repeat. They are not permitted to work.


“i want to work; can i apply for a working holiday visa?”
Ah, so you fancy washing dishes 7 days a week for a croissant and the dregs of the chalet wine? Unfortunately, it’s not as simple as it was before. This is due to the loss of freedom of movement of labour and the fact that there is currently no agreement between the UK and EU countries for working holiday visas. However, this could be arranged in the future and would probably be similar to the working holiday visas that we have with Australia and Canada.


“are there other ways of obtaining a visa to work the season?”
Yes, there are success stories. Various companies have managed to hire staff with a UK passport. However, the current process is tough and tiresome.

If you are a UK passport holder looking to be employed for the Ski Season, here is how it works:

You need to receive sponsorship from a French company
For a company to sponsor a UK passport holder, they must prove that there is no EU candidate that is suitable for the job. To prove this, they must advertise the job with the French Jobseeker platform ‘Pole Emploi’ for at least 3 weeks. If they receive any applications, they must present a compelling case on why they did not employ the EU candidates.

If they manage to present the higher power with a convincing enough case, the application is sent to the Ministry of the Interior. The processing of the Work Permit can take between a week and a month to process.

The good news is, at present, most work permits are being granted. This is due to the mounting pressure to simply get resorts running. This is a highly contentious political decision and it is predicted to become tougher in the future.

Apply for your visa
Once you have secured a work permit, you can apply for your visa. This requires you to contact the consul in your own country. France has subcontracted a private company to deal with this. Employers are helping UK passport holders through this process.

The current process is gruelling and can take up to 6 months to process.


“that sounds tough, is this the new normal?”
It shouldn’t be. This season is the first of its kind, with BREXIT and COVID colliding to create utter chaos. There is hope that a Working Holiday Visa will be introduced for future seasons. This would make it a whole lot easier for Brits to get out to the Alps and find work.


“most importantly, can i still shred this season?”
Yes. Absolutely. The ski season is still going ahead, resorts are opening. You have the option to spend up to 90 consecutive days to shred until your heart’s content. Bring on the good times, powder lines and stein’s (of beer pêche ).

A big thank you to Mika from SBiT (Seasonal Businesses in Travel), for providing clarity on the situation. SBiT’s aim is to ensure that the (future) relationship between the EU nations and the UK fosters and aims to grow the contribution British outbound travel companies make to the economies of both the UK and the EU nations by protecting the ability of British workers to temporarily work across the EU nations supporting the seasonal travel industry.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Back in the day the package was TO paid for travel to & from resort, season pass, ski & boot hire for the season, on piste insurance, board & lodging and very little cash (in hand). We got one full day off (but generally managed to get up the mountain for the greater part of two or three days) per week.
As everyone said 'Who's here for the money?'
TOs had multiple applications for every vacancy.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Nobody who has worked a season would liken it to slavery. People were queueing up for jobs and you are free to quit at any time, but why would you.
I had the usual package where my accom, transport, food and lift pass were paid for, so ended up taking home just £400 per month plus tips, despite working 6 days a week. I lived in a chalet I couldn't even afford to stay in on holiday now.
It was the best time of my life and I would swap that for my current well paid job in a heartbeat.
The freedom of movement was my biggest bugbear with BREXIT. My right to work or retire to Europe was effectively stolen from me, unless something new comes in to permit it. It's a tragedy
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