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Austria returns to lockdown Nov 2021

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-59343650

Just shows how fluid the situation is and it could happen elsewhere. I understand Austria has low vaccination rates but other countries are surging too. The amount of friends and colleagues getting it just now, even double jabbed is on the rise.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I'm a casual visitor to snowheads. I don't really know who the personalities are or which way the forum politics go but skimming through threads I've been surprised at the number of posts and posters advocating masks, health passes, various exclusionary measures etc

I suppose this is the logical conclusion, and as CV19 isn't going anywhere this will be the logical conclusion next year too.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
So you don't advocate using masks? etc?
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@obmij, I think there are a lot of people here who would dearly love skiing to go ahead this year after the widespread cancellations last winter - and they know that taking all the steps to minimise Covid are going to be necessary for that.

Today's Austrian news plays into our worst fears, cancellation again. High levels of vaccination aren't going to stop Covid being around but might - along with other relatively benign precautions - mean that life including skiing can go on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
So you don't advocate using masks? etc?
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@biddpyat No I don't. It's the thin end of a wedge which ends with lockdown.
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@obmij, masks work. I have not had a single cold/flu since we all started wearing them and stopped shaking hands. Usually I get a cold in November which destroys my life until January. I'm all in favour!
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[quote="obmij"]@biddpyat No I don't. It's the thin end of a wedge which ends with lockdown.[/quote

What would your solution be as an alternative?
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@obmij, why are you surprised? Masks and health passes are sensible measure that help reduce the load on the healthcare system and let us live more or less normal lives. Most people support them, not just on this forum.

You seem to have just emerged from your alternative reality facebook bubble.

are you antivax too by chance?
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[quote="Owlette"]
obmij wrote:
@biddpyat No I don't. It's the thin end of a wedge which ends with lockdown.[/quote

What would your solution be as an alternative?

I would be interested in this too.
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Steilhang wrote:
@obmij, masks work. I have not had a single cold/flu since we all started wearing them and stopped shaking hands. Usually I get a cold in November which destroys my life until January. I'm all in favour!


Me neither. Or things like Norovirus actually but that may be because generally people are washing their hands more than they did before all this started. I usually get a cough in winter which lasts about 3 weeks but I had nothing last winter.
I used to wonder what was going on when I saw most people from East Asia wearing masks on planes and trains but having noticed the difference in terms of coughs and colds I can understand why now.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
There isn't a solution. There is no cavalry coming and CV19 is here to stay.

Btw I am not really a social media bod. I don't do facebook or the online social thing. I am vaccinated and worked all the way through the various UK lockdowns. Just a normal person really, a parent with parents.
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obmij wrote:
@biddpyat No I don't. It's the thin end of a wedge which ends with lockdown.


Sooooo....just ignore medical advice and common sense? Puzzled

Rather ironic that the more of the day to day sensible stuff you do, the less likely lockdown is. Quite the opposite of your thinking.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
If masks and avoiding physical contact work for you then great. No objection at all, but if mandatory then it is obvious that there will be some for whom masks and social distancing are not enough. Harsher measures will be required and they may not suit you.

'Sensible' is a very subjective term
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
obmij wrote:
There isn't a solution. There is no cavalry coming and CV19 is here to stay.

Btw I am not really a social media bod. I don't do facebook or the online social thing. I am vaccinated and worked all the way through the various UK lockdowns. Just a normal person really, a parent with parents.


I'm not trying to be argumentative, just curious as you are so against them.

Like you, I also believe that C19 is here to stay. But if masks help stop the spread of Covid and germs in general, then I'm happy to wear them. The trouble is it's the vehement anti-vaxxers that also wander round with their sunflower lanyards (something that drives me nuts as a SEN teacher as it dilutes the point of them for those in genuine need) and 'exemption passes' that they ordered on Amazon, thus keeping us all in a permanent state of lockdown/no lockdown limbo.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@Owlette, et al., but there is a reasonable argument that we shouldn't all be avoiding all germs ...

Imagine that by doing so you reduce the effectiveness of your immune system to the point that a common cold was commonly fatal?

You need to be exposed to pathogens so that your system remains primed. Obviously there are some (covid, measles, polio) that we would prefer to vaccinate against, but living with an occasional sniffle is just part of living.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Thanks Owlette, I'm not a particularly argumentative person either.

You're a teacher so will have seen the damage caused by shutting schools for the majority of last year.

Masks may slow the spread of infection, but for some this will not be enough and there will be calls for further measures. Like shutting schools, locking playgrounds and as we are seeing in Austria, full lockdowns.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
At first I didn't like masks, the feeling of being told what to do constantly annoyed me... For about a day.
I thought about surgeons who wear them for hours at a time and realized I was being stupid.

After months of wearing one it became second nature. Phone, keys, wallet. mask.

Then Boris announced they were abandoned but reality we should have kept them for public spaces as everyone had got used to wearing them.

We've booked France and Italy, will take buff type face coverings (on the mountain) and a supply of medical masks as well for the evenings.
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I am in no way advocating not being exposed to any germs. Such is part of day to day life and I'm a firm believer in building a strong immune system, but certainly a reduction in illness is appreciated. I work with children. I have the immune system of an ox. It takes a lot to take me down, but if I go, I go hard.
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homers double wrote:
At first I didn't like masks, the feeling of being told what to do constantly annoyed me... For about a day.
I thought about surgeons who wear them for hours at a time and realized I was being stupid.

After months of wearing one it became second nature. Phone, keys, wallet. mask.

Then Boris announced they were abandoned but reality we should have kept them for public spaces as everyone had got used to wearing them.

We've booked France and Italy, will take buff type face coverings (on the mountain) and a supply of medical masks as well for the evenings.


I know what it is to wear PPE at work.

Anyway if you're advocating mandatory masks in public places, why not go one step further, and then another step, and another?

A lot of things have become second nature and accepted. It doesn't mean that they are right.

Enjoy your holidays. I hope they go ahead.
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https://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?t=137790


I think this ski season is another one which will be a miss. Maybe a few days in Scotland could be on the cards....
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under a new name wrote:
@Owlette, et al., but there is a reasonable argument that we shouldn't all be avoiding all germs ...

Imagine that by doing so you reduce the effectiveness of your immune system to the point that a common cold was commonly fatal?

You need to be exposed to pathogens so that your system remains primed. Obviously there are some (covid, measles, polio) that we would prefer to vaccinate against, but living with an occasional sniffle is just part of living.


No one is arguing with this. Masks, health passes and finally lockdowns are a way to spread the load onto the health system while the population acquires immunity (via vaccination and naturally) and the medical science works out the protocols to manage the disease

I don't think there is any illusion left that coronavirus can be eradicated.
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obmij wrote:


Anyway if you're advocating mandatory masks in public places, why not go one step further, and then another step, and another?

A lot of things have become second nature and accepted. It doesn't mean that they are right.

Enjoy your holidays. I hope they go ahead.


this is a spurious argument, it's like saying why bother with speed limits because it'll lead to driving being banned
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obmij wrote:
Thanks Owlette, I'm not a particularly argumentative person either.

You're a teacher so will have seen the damage caused by shutting schools for the majority of last year.

Masks may slow the spread of infection, but for some this will not be enough and there will be calls for further measures. Like shutting schools, locking playgrounds and as we are seeing in Austria, full lockdowns.

But these aren't authoritarian diktats en route to a communist state. They are simply public health countermesures proportionate to the threat that they address. There is no cabal of people hiding in the darkness with a roadmap for enslavement, as you imply. Yes, of course we should debate the proportionality of countermeasures, but for example, if wearing masks during a Pandemic saves thousands of lives, then it seems proportionate and I'll go with it. It is not the thin end of a enslaving wedge.

The only people calling for countermeasures are the scientists, epidemiologists and public health experts who base their recommendations on facts, education and experience. But this is all as through a glass darkly - it is an imperfect knowledge, so there are uncertainties, different interpretations, and disagreements. But that's the scientific method: if you don't like it, what's the alternative?

You could do nothing and just let it roll, but if you take any action (and doing nothing is still a conscious course of action) then you need to have a framework for decision-making. And to have any point, it has to be evidence-based. And thus you come to the scientific process which is the foundation for this. And its this process - not any sinister lobby - which is calling for the countermeasures.
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Does any snowHead know if Austria's 20 day lockdown if they do 10+10 means restrictions lifted on 13 or 14 December? Am due to fly on 13th.... Confused
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@under a new name, very much. RSV, Rhinovirus and other Coronaviruses are charging around doing all sorts of damage against weakened immune systems. If the sole intention is to eradicate Covid-19 in isolation then clearly masks are a great solution… but as with all public health measures it’s a trade off, and if widespread mask wearing causes waning immunity to other respiratory viruses leading to an increased infection fatality rate for those then… it’s clearly not a smart move. I know a lot of medics who are very uneasy about the effects of long term masking.
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Snowsartre wrote:
Does any snowHead know if Austria's 20 day lockdown if they do 10+10 means restrictions lifted on 13 or 14 December? Am due to fly on 13th.... Confused


Same. What does this lockdown mean early December skiing in Austria? Does it kill it?
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
There’s no evidence to support the efficacy of lockdowns and mask wearing, particularly the type being used the most is pointless for an aerosol type virus. There sufficient evidence out there if an effort is made to identify what a farce this has been from the word go.
I would have hoped the skiing community had a little more oil in their lamps than to accept the narrative
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I don't think anyone's mind was ever changed by strangers on the internet, and my intention - before getting sucked into a general argument (my fault) was not to try. I will say though that what is considered proportional, just as what is considered sensible, is very subjective.

I am surprised by the overwhelming lean towards mask wearing, health passes and lockdowns I've seen on this board and I suppose backed up by replies in this thread. It's not what I see and hear in the real world (evidenced by the majority discarding facemasks, once no longer mandatory). Perhaps it's the winter sports demographic? Older, relatively privileged and less likely to be negatively impacted by interventionist measures?

Hope I'm wrong and the Austria situation isn't likely to be replicated across Europe and perhaps even in the UK - if it is then we really are in a dark place & don't bother booking for 22/23 wink

Finally, if it does all go to ratshit, I sincerely hope it doesn't until I get back off my hols at Crimbo Little Angel

Enjoy your forum. Out Little Angel
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südtirolistdeutsch wrote:
Snowsartre wrote:
Does any snowHead know if Austria's 20 day lockdown if they do 10+10 means restrictions lifted on 13 or 14 December? Am due to fly on 13th.... Confused


Same. What does this lockdown mean early December skiing in Austria? Does it kill it?

Should be lifted on the 12th, ie. last day is 11th.

No idea about skiing yet. Not seen it mentioned anywhere.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@facedown, "A surgical mask was the most effective at blocking droplets and aerosols from talking, coughing and sneezing."
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-27/which-face-mask-works-best-filmed-people-sneezing-coughing/12494174
and

http://youtube.com/v/DNeYfUTA11s
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Scarlet,
Sky News has:
"The national lockdown will initially last for 10 days, after which the effects will be assessed and the measures extended to a maximum of 20 days if cases have not gone down enough."
Is there a definitive list of lockdown actions yet?? Due Lanersbach 2 - 6 Dec!!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Scarlet wrote:
südtirolistdeutsch wrote:
Snowsartre wrote:
Does any snowHead know if Austria's 20 day lockdown if they do 10+10 means restrictions lifted on 13 or 14 December? Am due to fly on 13th.... Confused


Same. What does this lockdown mean early December skiing in Austria? Does it kill it?

Should be lifted on the 12th, ie. last day is 11th.

No idea about skiing yet. Not seen it mentioned anywhere.

The 2 glacier areas I have checked are closing on Monday and expect to reopen on 13th. Edit 12th.


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Fri 19-11-21 19:07; edited 1 time in total
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@Chris_n, >The 2 glacier areas I have checked... I know of 5 glacier areas in A. Does the 2 include Hintertux??
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colinstone wrote:
@facedown, "A surgical mask was the most effective at blocking droplets and aerosols from talking, coughing and sneezing."


A worrying number of people still seem to think the mask is intended to protect the wearer rather than everyone else. As we all know, masks are very effective at reducing the spread of the virus if worn by an (unknowingly?) infected person.
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facedown wrote:
There’s no evidence to support the efficacy of lockdowns and mask wearing, particularly the type being used the most is pointless for an aerosol type virus. There sufficient evidence out there if an effort is made to identify what a farce this has been from the word go.
I would have hoped the skiing community had a little more oil in their lamps than to accept the narrative


well apart from the evidence in this article in a reputable scientific publication which quotes several studies.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02801-8

it also explains the confusion and goes into some detail on particle size in aerosols, filtering etc.

or this one
https://www.pnas.org/content/118/4/e2014564118

or even this one
https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302
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@Red Leon, Yes. And if everyone wears them, then the indoor/ventilation aerosol problem is largely solved with no hardship to anyone.
And it isn't costly for the penny conscious - French research showed that the blue surgicals can be washed 10 times at 60C and filtration improves as the fibres become swollen.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
colinstone wrote:
@Chris_n, >The 2 glacier areas I have checked... I know of 5 glacier areas in A. Does the 2 include Hintertux??
Yes, didn't really see the point in going any further after the first 2 said they were closed.
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colinstone wrote:
@Scarlet,
Sky News has:
"The national lockdown will initially last for 10 days, after which the effects will be assessed and the measures extended to a maximum of 20 days if cases have not gone down enough."
Is there a definitive list of lockdown actions yet?? Due Lanersbach 2 - 6 Dec!!


Due to travel on the 11th
Sunweb has cancelled my booking.
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@colinstone, yeah, that’s not looking good for you, sorry.
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