Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
👁 durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Cutting down on grooming and snowmaking

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Worth noting that many resorts use the a SNOWsat system on their snow groomers. This measures the depth of the snow on the slopes, allowing them to adjust snow production and optimise water use. Other resorts are going to groom based on usage (i.e. not simply groom every slope, every night).
snow report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:

Many (but not all) alpine resorts are a total mess in the summer.
Bulldozed pistes, artificial reservoirs to provide water for snow making, fixed metal pipe work and cannons.

You forgot to mention all those ugly lifts, and accommodation.

Or all those people walking about in brightly coloured clothing
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Haggis_Trap wrote:

Many (but not all) alpine resorts are a total mess in the summer.
Bulldozed pistes, artificial reservoirs to provide water for snow making, fixed metal pipe work and cannons.


Well Verbier built a new main (Medran) lift and redid all the snowmaking from Ruinettes to Attelas and while the work was visible to say it left the resort in a total mess is a massive over-exageration.

The hiking/biking options were still huge and the scenery absolutely stunning.

Zermatt also stunning in Summer. Cycled through Grindelwad - magic. Villars/Diablerets - wonderful. Andermatt / Disentis - superb. Several Tirolean resorts - all fab.

Not sure I’d go to Val Thorens but most resorts look great in Summer despite any maintenance work.
snow report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Weathercam wrote:

Serre too does not have any issues with water, though I didn't quite buy the fact that all the lifts would be sustainably powered in the near future?

They've stuck a few wind-turbines up in various places to make them feel better Laughing


Really last time I checked Serre was in France, which means they are basically sustainably powered already assuming they are electric. Or at least they a powered using a low carbon emission power source which is what counts. Very few diesel powered lifts about these days.

Quick Google shows this for France's generation mix in 2018. Nuclear 413 TWh (71%); hydro 70.6 TWh (12%); natural gas 30.6 TWh (5%); wind 28.6 TWh (5%); biofuels & waste 10.7 TWh (2%); coal 10.6 TWh (2%); solar 10.6 TWh (2%); oil 6.0 TWh (1%).

So they are 92% low carbon electric three years ago. One imagines the figure for 2021 is better.
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Haggis_Trap wrote:
BobinCH wrote:
Haggis_Trap wrote:

2) Personally I think the biggest impact of snow-cannon is environmental.
The fixed cannons, pipe work and reservoirs are a huge scar on the landscape.
Many big ski resorts look particularly ugly in summer.


Really? Wind turbines are a much bigger blight on the landscape than a few snow cannons and when they do dig it up to lay pipes it’s covered again by the next season.


That is a strawman argument:
1) Wind turbines help reduce emissions (though that is not what we are discussing).
2) Wind turbines aren't generally placed above snowline in alpine environment

Many (but not all) alpine resorts are a total mess in the summer.
Bulldozed pistes, artificial reservoirs to provide water for snow making, fixed metal pipe work and cannons.


Fair points but I'd say the ski lifts and piste scars are more imposing than the snowmaking kit
snow report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
philwig wrote:
boarder2020 wrote:
... What percentage of grooming could resorts cut without people being bothered? Sure if you completely stopped grooming you would put a lot of people off. I'm not sure 10-15% less grooming makes much of a difference, especially if you are smart with how you market it (i.e. create freeride zones, nature routes, itineraries etc.).
Of course resorts are designed and maintained for real people, whose skills are vastly inferior to those on the internet, so there is that.


I know I keep coming back to it, but how are north American resorts successful then? Are the skiers are dramatically better out there that they can handle off piste and the Europeans can't? Is everyone assuming off piste = huge bumps or extreme terrain?

It seems like people adjust to the terrain they have available. Right now the pistes are so extensive and groomed in Europe, off piste is not controlled so an element of danger and knowledge required, and it seems like some are of the mindset off piste is only for advanced skiers. I think if European resorts were to create more controlled freeride zones you'd probably see a shift towards the north American skiers approach where off piste is something to be enjoyed and more normalised.
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
In some of the USA resorts I've been to, they rotated the grooming over a 3 day cycle. So Manchester, slightly bumped, more bumped and back to Manchester. So perhaps skiers got used to less than perfect surfaces.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@boarder2020,
Quote:

There is also the safety argument. Supposedly less grooming = slower speeds = less crashes/injuries.


Interesting theory although I confess I'm extremely sceptical. There may be fewer high speed crashes/falls but I can't help feeling that the total number of falls will be a great deal higher. The reason that people ski slower on moguls/boilerplate/lumps and bumps is is that they feel they have less control and are more likely to fall. Rougher surfaces are also far more tiring to ski on.
snow report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
He will soon f*** off that theory when his commercial turnover plummets
snow conditions
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Quote:

I know I keep coming back to it, but how are north American resorts successful then?

Haven’t been there in winter but I imagine NA resorts get more and lighter snow than most European ski areas. They are also smaller and I imagine skier numbers are lower. They are also higher and the air will usually be drier so the snow off piste will remain easier to ski for longer.
Many European ski resorts just don’t get the depth of natural snow that would be needed to sustain high traffic areas. Without snow making and grooming they would quickly get skied out.
ski holidays
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
foxtrotzulu wrote:
@boarder2020,
Quote:

There is also the safety argument. Supposedly less grooming = slower speeds = less crashes/injuries.


Interesting theory although I confess I'm extremely sceptical. There may be fewer high speed crashes/falls but I can't help feeling that the total number of falls will be a great deal higher. The reason that people ski slower on moguls/boilerplate/lumps and bumps is is that they feel they have less control and are more likely to fall. Rougher surfaces are also far more tiring to ski on.


Most of the deaths in North American ski resorts happen on green and blue groomed runs. People going too fast and losing control, which also puts other people at danger. Sure deaths doesn't equal all injuries, but it's worst case scenario. I know I'm personally far more worried on a busy green or blue piste back into the village at the end of the day than I am off-piste.

Falling in soft snow tends not to hurt too much!

Quote:

In some of the USA resorts I've been to, they rotated the grooming over a 3 day cycle. So Manchester, slightly bumped, more bumped and back to Manchester. So perhaps skiers got used to less than perfect surfaces


Some of the Canadian resorts have runs that might only get groomed a couple of times each season, so always a nice treat when you are looking at the morning grooming report and see they've done one of them. I think you are right, it's a chicken and egg thing. If eropeans didn't have such extensive and quality grooming (and access to controlled off piste) they'd probably realise it can be quite enjoyable and get used to skiing more varied terrain. Rather than the off piste is only for expert and too difficult for holiday skiers mindset some seem to have.
latest report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Peter S wrote:
Quote:

I know I keep coming back to it, but how are north American resorts successful then?

Haven’t been there in winter but I imagine NA resorts get more and lighter snow than most European ski areas. They are also smaller and I imagine skier numbers are lower. They are also higher and the air will usually be drier so the snow off piste will remain easier to ski for longer.
Many European ski resorts just don’t get the depth of natural snow that would be needed to sustain high traffic areas. Without snow making and grooming they would quickly get skied out.


Snow quality is mixed. Certainly around the coast it's not light snow. Other than the Colorado resorts which are high, I don't think there's that much difference in altitude between n America and Europe. Hard to find data for skiers per day and you'd have to factor is size (i.e. skiers per acre), certainly the likes of Whistler and Vail and not quiet. I find it hard to believe that (excluding the bottom of low villages) Europe doesn't have "enough" snow.

The quote you have taken above though was in reply to the suggestion/belief you have to have extensive grooming as ungroomed terrain is extremely unpopular to the point where you lose all your business and impossible for anyone that's not extremely good at skiing. I'm just saying if you got rid of a few pistes for freeride areas you might be surprised that people begin to enjoy that kind of thing more like they do in North America. I'm not saying don't do any grooming or think we should have huge areas of moguls.
ski holidays
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@boarder2020, statistically, European ski areas get significantly less snow (generalising, on average) than North American ones.

Though I think you make good points about adding freeride areas.
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
boarder2020 wrote:
If europeans didn't have such extensive and quality grooming (and access to controlled off piste) they'd probably realise it can be quite enjoyable and get used to skiing more varied terrain. Rather than the off piste is only for expert and too difficult for holiday skiers mindset some seem to have.


Yes, I agree - people get used to something and then expect it as standard. If all the european resorts made the change together, I'm sure everyone would just get on with it (after a few initial grumbles) and soon accept the new conditions (and probably forget that it was any other way). The trouble is, if one resort does it, but others don't, then punters will just vote with their feet and go to the resorts that still groom extensively.

Quote:
... was in reply to the suggestion/belief you have to have extensive grooming as ungroomed terrain is extremely unpopular to the point where you lose all your business and impossible for anyone that's not extremely good at skiing. I'm just saying if you got rid of a few pistes for freeride areas you might be surprised that people begin to enjoy that kind of thing more like they do in North America. I'm not saying don't do any grooming or think we should have huge areas of moguls.


I know in a lot of resorts they are starting to introduce 'Natur' pistes (hope I have that right?), where they are not maintained as extensively - however, I have heard many people actively avoiding them ("shall we do xx", "no, that's a natur piste"), which them pushes more traffic back to the groomed pistes.

However, while it's not straightforward, I agree there must be a middle ground. I'm sure that about 10-15 years ago in Val Thorens - they only used to groom the reds (and some blues) every other day, as I remember that we used to check to see which runs had been groomed before we headed out each day. But I'm sure that most people didn't and would just ski as they found them, completely oblivious.

While you don't want to mislead people, I think you just want to make reduced grooming part and parcel of everyday skiing, rather than labelling certain runs as people will actively avoid them. It's like when a blue flows into a short red section, and even though the slope is basically the same, you see people standing, looking at the point it merges with concerned looks on their faces as while their eyes say it looks fine, their head can't get over the fact that it's labelled a red now (and they enviably choose to take the horrible narrow windy icey blue slope that goes round it, and is actually horrible to ski)
snow report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Just to add - sometimes the 'natur' runs seems to be put in the middle of nowhere, so you have to be confident and certain you're going to do it, to then seek them out. The times I've done a mogul run or something more natural is when you travel over them in a chairlift and you can closely check it out. Then at the top you can choose to do it or not, but many times after looking at it closely, we all say that looks fun, let's do it. So positioning of these runs feels key.
ski holidays
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
In WinterPark in Colorado they have a number of ungroomed runs, which are in effect mogul fields, as still mogul skiing is quite popular there, that said all the time that I was there they were deserted with people opting to ski the groomers.

A week later I went to Steamboat, a different profile of skier, and they had no mogul fields.



Now the only time I really encounter moguls is the runout to P1 lift station in La Grave, and La Grave as a case in point is ungroomed apart from the glacier, and if it has not snowed for a couple of weeks then most avoid it choosing to ski elsewhere as steep hard-packed mogul boilerplate is not a lot of fun!
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
boarder2020 wrote:
foxtrotzulu wrote:
@boarder2020,
Quote:

There is also the safety argument. Supposedly less grooming = slower speeds = less crashes/injuries.


Interesting theory although I confess I'm extremely sceptical. There may be fewer high speed crashes/falls but I can't help feeling that the total number of falls will be a great deal higher. The reason that people ski slower on moguls/boilerplate/lumps and bumps is is that they feel they have less control and are more likely to fall. Rougher surfaces are also far more tiring to ski on.


Most of the deaths in North American ski resorts happen on green and blue groomed runs. People going too fast and losing control, which also puts other people at danger. Sure deaths doesn't equal all injuries, but it's worst case scenario. I know I'm personally far more worried on a busy green or blue piste back into the village at the end of the day than I am off-piste.

Falling in soft snow tends not to hurt too much!



This.

People are called Blue Run Heroes for a reason. It's dead easy to ski fast, rocked back on your heels, hefting your shoulders around to turn on a groomed blue run. Exactly the sort of behaviour that makes you a hazard to all. On a bump run you last about 2 or 3 moguls before a yardsale or you slow right down and have a really bad time as you try to gibbon around each bump. Then you don't go back and retreat to feeling like a superhero in your excess speed on a slope which demands little along with 1000s like you. It's not skiing the blue that's the problem it's the false illusion of your skills you get while doing so.

In NA the grooming cycle sometimes goes too far - there definitely reaches a stage when the bumps go beyond fun to 1m+ drops on the downhill side that is no longer much fun. It takes mega storms to fill those in.
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
there definitely reaches a stage when the bumps go beyond fun to 1m+ drops on the downhill side that is no longer much fun. It takes mega storms to fill those in.


I recall a trip to Kaprun, many years ago. There was a mogul field to the side of the Glacier that looked interesting. No one else in the group fancied it, so I did it solo. The top was very steep. From above, the bumps were about waist height. The drop behind it, more like 25ft. Skullie Total length about 150m. Having gone over the first one, I was past the point of no return. Picked my way down very carefully. At least 1/2 of the way before they were small enough to pick out a route of more than 2 turns.

Annoyingly, didn't fall until very near the end, on nothing more than a molehill rolling eyes Legs were wrecked.

Challenging. Only did it the once Very Happy
snow conditions
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Quote:

Now the only time I really encounter moguls is the runout to P1 lift station in La Grave, and La Grave as a case in point is ungroomed apart from the glacier, and if it has not snowed for a couple of weeks then most avoid it choosing to ski elsewhere as steep hard-packed mogul boilerplate is not a lot of fun!


Do they not leave any bump runs around Serre? Even Les Contamines leaves a couple of runs mainly ungroomed.
latest report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@jedster, no interesting point and I was thinking about this, pretty well ALL the pistes are groomed overnight, though I might not be 100% as I don't tend to ski piste in resort that often (maybe in Monetier on the Cibouit and on some reds), but all the main reds etc down to the valley floor are groomed and it's only in the busy periods at the end of the day when you might come across them, of course, there are moguls to the side of the pistes should people want to ski them.

But they would not leave swathes of pistes ungroomed as it would just concentrate more skiers on those that are.

But in days of old (skiing elsewhere), I do seem to recall people looking online to see what pistes had been groomed as it was not always the case?


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Thu 11-11-21 11:54; edited 1 time in total
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Weathercam wrote:

Now the only time I really encounter moguls is the runout to P1 lift station in La Grave


La Grave moguls are great - usually have good shape / well spaced because they are made by good skiers skiing fall line.

They can get massive (like a field of VW Beatles) but great fun when slushy in the spring.
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Weathercam wrote:

Now the only time I really encounter moguls is the runout to P1 lift station in La Grave, and La Grave as a case in point is ungroomed apart from the glacier, and if it has not snowed for a couple of weeks then most avoid it choosing to ski elsewhere as steep hard-packed mogul boilerplate is not a lot of fun!


The problem with La Grave is that they are full of themselves and there own self importance. Look at us it's an experience to ski here because we have an awful slow antiquated lift system that we have never upgraded. Look at us we are an experience because we don't groom anything so you are either skiing a massive huge mogal field as you approach P1 or you are skiing a massive huge mogal field that is disguised with fresh snow and looks deceptively flat. It's why if you want to do free riding Alagna is a thousand times better. A modern lift system and they piste the run off's back to the lifts. I would note that La Grave went bust recently and had to be rescued which proves my point that they are full of it and need to accept that yes they are an experience but it's a bad one and there are much better offerings. Frankly Andermatt is better than La Grace even though it's not quite as steep.
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Peter S wrote:
Quote:

I know I keep coming back to it, but how are north American resorts successful then?

Haven’t been there in winter but I imagine NA resorts get more and lighter snow than most European ski areas. They are also smaller and I imagine skier numbers are lower. They are also higher and the air will usually be drier so the snow off piste will remain easier to ski for longer.
Many European ski resorts just don’t get the depth of natural snow that would be needed to sustain high traffic areas. Without snow making and grooming they would quickly get skied out.


I think there is also an impact from the relative ages of the ranges. Aren't the Rockies much older than the Alps and hence smoother (by erosion) so maybe in general easier to manage as ski resorts with thin snow cover?
snow report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Haggis_Trap, but I'm fecked if I ski them hard now Laughing

Who is the ill-informed troll a couple above Laughing
snow conditions
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Weathercam wrote:

Who is the ill-informed troll a couple above Laughing


Dunno - but the variable conditions, moguls and snow-patch-hoping (followed by 200m walk) to get back to P1 for another lap clearly made him a bit grumpy.

Seems that skiing at La Grave is not for him ? Laughing
snow report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
For all the off piste aficionados above, quite simply skiing as we know it would not exist without pistes. It’s the only reason it became popular, and available to the masses. Field Marshall Montgomery wanting to keep it a little special, which was at the start of this thread. Without pistes few people would go at all.
I think currently over 99% of skiable terrain is not piste. Plenty to go at chaps. As far as I know La Grave is not packed out.

If you are an excellent skier that’s fantastic. Most like me are ok holiday piste skiers and neither have the inclination, time, money, nor these days do they want to pollute through travel. Some are local, and they have skiing as their no.1 sport. Certainly in the Uk such people would be in a small minority.
I started skiing at the same time as I started playing golf, over 50 years ago. Relatively speaking I am better at golf than skiing, primarily because the opportunities to ski are so much more limited. I also live in a part of the country with a number of the best golf courses in the world, which helps.

Relax a bit everyone. We all want to enjoy ourselves. At my age when pistes go so will I, and I suspect 90% of all holiday skiers.
latest report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
twoodwar wrote:

I started skiing at the same time as I started playing golf, over 50 years ago. Relatively speaking I am better at golf than skiing, primarily because the opportunities to ski are so much more limited. I also live in a part of the country with a number of the best golf courses in the world, which helps.


If that where actually true then you would be within easy reach of skiing centres in the U.K. he says as he looks out the spare bedroom window and sees the 13th oldest golf course in the world Happy
snow conditions
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Haggis_Trap wrote:
Weathercam wrote:

Who is the ill-informed troll a couple above Laughing


Dunno - but the variable conditions, moguls and snow-patch-hoping (followed by 200m walk) to get back to P1 for another lap clearly made him a bit grumpy.

Seems that skiing at La Grave is not for him ? Laughing


I have fortunately not been victim to snow-patch-hoping at La Grave. I am just pointing out that the masochistic navel gazing of those around La Grave is a proven commercial failure. If you replaced the antiquated junk of a lift with a modern gondola and did some minimal bashing to maintain the high traffic corridors back to the lift stations it would be a far more appealing destination and might not have gone bankrupt and needed rescuing. If you have skied both you would know that is the difference between Alagna and La Grave, except the former has not need rescuing from financial collapse. Though the functioning link into Gressoney is probably a help too. However again that is masochistic navel gazing of La Grave not to have a functioning link to Les Deux Alps.

It is the same sort of masochistic incoherent thinking that in Scotland leads to a proliferation of surface tows because chairlifts can't operate in 40mph gales. So for the sake of keeping open for a few nutters when it is uneconomic to do so, large numbers of skiers and boarders stay away due to not wanting to deal with T-bars and Pomas leading to majority of ski areas in Scotland being the victim of at least one financial collapse.

I want to be able to ski these areas for years to come, and that means making yourself financially viable, which La Grave is not due to a rubbish customer experience. Of course that might because they are French and I am sure the French language is devoid of terms for customer experience. This year I am voting with my feet and going to Andermatt because well it's a better experience all round.
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@jabuzzard, Bebbington oval? Runcorn, or the snowy wastes of Chillfactore?
snow report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Yeah a lot of trolling going on. La Grave is like that for a reason because it isn't a "resort".

A bit of grooming on the P1 funnelled runs and traverses wouldn't make the slightest difference to commercial success. For that you need family friendly blue groomers and a large bed base and something going on for entertainment beyond the grot mag collection in the loo at Objectif (I suspect sadly probably a victim of the smartphone era). Alagna has the benefit of being part of a huge interconnected ski circus full of such groomers - that's what pays for the freeride zone access. But you know that.
snow report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I'm a big fan of less grooming when the snow is still cold and fresh - once its warmed and refrozen it becomes unpleasant to ski. I suspect they'd be fewer collision injuries and more ski normal injuries. In general it would slow the idiots down and that's a big positive.
latest report
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
jabuzzard wrote:

If you replaced the antiquated junk of a lift with a modern gondola and did some minimal bashing to maintain the high traffic corridors back to the lift stations it would be a far more appealing destination and might not have gone bankrupt and needed rescuing.
<blah>
... and that means making yourself financially viable, which La Grave is not due to a rubbish customer experience. Of course that might because they are French and I am sure the French language is devoid of terms for customer experience. This year I am voting with my feet and going to Andermatt because well it's a better experience all round.


Funny...
The exact reason I like skiing in La Grave is that is not full of loud mouth opinionated Brit punters moaning about the rustic uplift or lack of grooming back to P1
You are welcome Laughing
snow report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Haggis_Trap, can't believe I totally concur with you Laughing

I've skied there every season since 97 and whilst I sometimes question why I've gone over there knowing that there's good stuff still to be had in my backyard, most of my "best days of the season" are often there.

PS I've skied/boarded Gressony along with other World Class areas and a fair few times and.....................

And as says
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
.....Alagna has the benefit of being part of a huge interconnected ski circus full of such groomers ....
it's just a totally different experience.
ski holidays
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
there is an old ski "resort" in Germany that did exactly that
Karwendel. Sometime ago, they decided that it doesnt worth to prepare the slope etc, and at present they check it only for avalanches. Otherwise is "freeride"
It is not a bad experience at all, if there is much snow..
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
And as a few people have mentioned, last season saw people skinning up only to walk down because they could not ski an ungroomed piste, even though it was well tracked out etc a few stories here.

https://stylealtitude.com/the-rise-and-fall-of-ski-tourers.html
snow report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
turms2 wrote:
there is an old ski "resort" in Germany that did exactly that
Karwendel. Sometime ago, they decided that it doesnt worth to prepare the slope etc, and at present they check it only for avalanches. Otherwise is "freeride"
It is not a bad experience at all, if there is much snow..


Is that in Miitenwald?
Been there in summer. Lovely wee village

Super St Bernard used to be like a mini La Grave.
One old lift, 2 valleys and minimal grooming (etc)
Though it went bankrupt about ten years ago Laughing
ski holidays
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Haggis_Trap, yep snowboarded there (Super St Bernard) a long time ago, with Per from La Grave, think I was touring with a 198 SwallowTail board Laughing

Just found this blast from the past, riding said snowboard above at Super St Bernard in 2007 !!

You can see how ungroomed the main run was and people opting to do that rather than the fresh to the side!


http://youtube.com/v/VQgXb3cwYCk
ski holidays
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Quote:

Scotland leads to a proliferation of surface tows because chairlifts can't operate in 40mph gales.

Minimal snowmaking, minimal piste grooming, basic refurbished ski tows and no flying needed to get there. Scotland is already leading the way on low carbon skiing Cool

Challenging skiing ? Tick Laughing
latest report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Amidst all the chest thumping, people seem to have forgotten there're many different aspect of skiing, and different skiers have different preferences to one or the other aspect over the rest.

The off-piste fanatics would like nothing better than no grooming whatsoever, La Grave everywhere!

The piste cruisers would love to see the entire mountain side to be bashed into pistes!

No sensible resort owners will do either. It takes a balanced combination of both piste and off-piste to appeal to the largest audience across Europe (and the rest of the world).

The most vocal moaning about the "potential" of less grooming are the one-week-a-year Brit's whose self-illusion of being a great skier are being deprived a say, 10% decrease of piste! All that "no grooming" is just alarmist talk. Laughing
latest report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
abc wrote:
Amidst all the chest thumping, people seem to have forgotten there're many different aspect of skiing, and different skiers have different preferences to one or the other aspect over the rest.
The off-piste fanatics would like nothing better than no grooming whatsoever, La Grave everywhere!


If you actually read the topic / original article you would realise this topic is not about "piste Vs off piste".

Rather it is about customer expectation that (in face of global warming) runs back to resort are maintained using entierly artificial snow. In reality would it be more efficient to upload / download on gondola to where the snow lies naturally on upper slopes? With modern uplift you would still get plenty skiing done
snow report



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy