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Cutting down on grooming and snowmaking

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@abc, I agree. As I have said previously, skiing as we know it would be even more of a minority sport than it is now without pistes. The holiday business would not exist. Off piste skiers will always be able to ski whilst there is some snow and mountains. Pistes will stay because the electricity needed is minimal, and most of it in resorts is pretty close to carbon neutral.
Travelling to resorts, or probably the need not to, will kill off skiing, that’s the big emissions factor.


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Fri 12-11-21 12:15; edited 1 time in total
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Weathercam, Have you really not come across mogul fields other than la Grave?

In Les Arcs there are several natur runs that generally have descent mogul fields agin to your picture of La Grave (but often have bigger moguls). One, Claire Blanc, is even graded red. The non natur Combourciere is basicaly a 2km long mogul field ajacent to the red Secret piste. The moguls of Combourciere are more tiring but feel a lot safer than the rock hard smooth piste of Secret.

Once again back to Les Arcs. As the red Cachette piste approaches Arc 1600 half the piste is pisted and half left natur. About half the skiers go down each side: the safe easy moguls versus the flat out massive side slipping bashed bit. Actually if you looked down the piste you will see a lot more skiers on the moguls. They take much longer to gt down.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@johnE, in Serre Che they don't have classic mogul fields like you've described and I used to encounter when skiing elsewhere, though a few runs in Serre do develop them, Monetier Tabuc / Cibouit, maybe they have to pander to the soft Frenchies Laughing

I have not skied a mogul field on a piste orientated ski less than 80 wide for a long time, maybe skiing 105+ and my vintage is what that tires me out now Laughing

I do recall back in my snowboarding days of coming out of the tunnel at Alpe D'Huez and finding that a bit of a challenge as well as the Wall in Avoriaz, and of course the traverses in La Grave Shocked
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 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Quote:

I do recall back in my snowboarding days of coming out of the tunnel at Alpe D'Huez and finding that a bit of a challenge as well as the Wall in Avoriaz

Now those are mogul fields. You have risen to hero status for even attempting them on a snowboard
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
johnE wrote:
@Weathercam, Have you really not come across mogul fields other than la Grave?

In Les Arcs there are several natur runs that generally have descent mogul fields agin to your picture of La Grave (but often have bigger moguls). One, Claire Blanc, is even graded red. The non natur Combourciere is basicaly a 2km long mogul field ajacent to the red Secret piste. The moguls of Combourciere are more tiring but feel a lot safer than the rock hard smooth piste of Secret.

Once again back to Les Arcs. As the red Cachette piste approaches Arc 1600 half the piste is pisted and half left natur. About half the skiers go down each side: the safe easy moguls versus the flat out massive side slipping bashed bit. Actually if you looked down the piste you will see a lot more skiers on the moguls. They take much longer to gt down.


I've always liked Combourciere, very nice location down between the rocks there. Also the return from the top of there to 1600 that I can never remember the name of through that rolling unpisted twisty section.

As you note there about a split piste of different conditions, Les Arcs and many others have many hugely wide piste of complete corduroy each day. An easy "experiment" would be to piste one half on alternate nights to gain a very quick and genuine energy reduction, allowing users to make their choice and perhaps give real feedback to ski domain. They could at least gain genuine response for virtually nil changes in preparation.
Many are seeking and using near to edge of piste skiing anyway, it would just promote that aspect but within the poles.
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 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
One partial alternative to snow making for higher exposed resorts would be more snow fencing. It’s noticeable how many more fences seem to have appeared in Val D’isere over recent decades. It’s possibly a reaction to stronger winds as well as higher traffic ?

Apparently with a 50% air gap a snow drift will extend up to 23 times the height of the fence, as long as the wind is perpendicular snowHead
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Quote:

I can never remember the name of through that rolling unpisted twisty section.

Malgovert. It has now been regraded to black from red to discourcge those cragfast red piste skiers getting stuck on it.
Quote:

An easy "experiment" would be to piste one half on alternate nights to gain a very quick and genuine energy reduction

They don't piste everynight. Some pistes such as Combourciere may only bashed once or twice in a season. In general they are bashed when needed. The piste management team are fairly clued up as to what to do.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Dave of the Marmottes wrote:
Yeah a lot of trolling going on. La Grave is like that for a reason because it isn't a "resort".

A bit of grooming on the P1 funnelled runs and traverses wouldn't make the slightest difference to commercial success. For that you need family friendly blue groomers and a large bed base and something going on for entertainment beyond the grot mag collection in the loo at Objectif (I suspect sadly probably a victim of the smartphone era). Alagna has the benefit of being part of a huge interconnected ski circus full of such groomers - that's what pays for the freeride zone access. But you know that.


Let's see how that stands up to scrutiny. Monterosa ski area has 180km of pistes including the very limited amount of pistes in Alagna. On the other hand Les Deux Alpes has 220km of pistes. So if that is the only reason for Alagna staying afloat and La Grave going bust it is again down to La Grave and it's naval gazing about how special they are because they have naff facilities, naff lift and no grooming what so ever (well ignoring the glacier which they do groom so actually the no grooming is a bare faced lie) because they have shunned the link to Les Deux Alps and gone bust.

Any long term successful business will tell you that if you don't invest in your business you are doomed to wither and die. La Grave has purposefully refused to invest in their business and went bust as a result. They are a free ride resort and due to their lack of investment over a period of decades there are now better alternatives out there. In business nobody is special.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
twoodwar wrote:
@jabuzzard, Bebbington oval? Runcorn, or the snowy wastes of Chillfactore?


From where I type this there are not one but two Open Championship golf courses within a seven mile radius. The 13th oldest golf course in the world frequently used for Open qualifiers is a 5 minute walk away. At a radius of 35 miles I can add in a third Open Championship golf course and Gleneagles. There are many many more golf courses in the vicinity including the very highly ranked Kingsbarns about 14 miles away with a history stretching back over 200 years. You might think you live near lots of world class golf course, but that is only because you don't actually know what it is like to live near a large number of actual world class gold courses Happy

TL;DR if you want to live near to lots of actually world class golf course you have to live in Scotland, at which point you have easy access to real snow for skiing. Glenshee is just over an hours drive away from where I type this too.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
jabuzzard wrote:

Let's see how that stands up to scrutiny. Monterosa ski area has 180km of pistes including the very limited amount of pistes in Alagna. On the other hand Les Deux Alpes has 220km of pistes. So if that is the only reason for Alagna staying afloat and La Grave going bust it is again down to La Grave and it's naval gazing about how special they are because they have naff facilities, naff lift and no grooming what so ever (well ignoring the glacier which they do groom so actually the no grooming is a bare faced lie) because they have shunned the link to Les Deux Alps and gone bust.

Any long term successful business will tell you that if you don't invest in your business you are doomed to wither and die. La Grave has purposefully refused to invest in their business and went bust as a result. They are a free ride resort and due to their lack of investment over a period of decades there are now better alternatives out there. In business nobody is special.


Let me call bulls@it Laughing
SATA (the owners of Alp dHuez etc) bought a 30 year lease for La Grave almost 5 years ago now.
Lift has recently been upgraded and there is even controversial plan to build 3eme troncon to the Dome de Lauze at cost of 10 million.

https://www.whitemarmotte.com/la-grave-update-alpedhuez-to-run-the-lifts-for-the-next-30-years/
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Haggis_Trap, +1

As you said, the beauty of La Grave and our part of the world is that we do not get the Brit Billy's like @jabuzzard, comes across, let them keep to the Northern Alps, though I hear that a load of SCGB will be in Serre in January rolling eyes
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
But more about the future of La Grave in Le Monde today

https://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2021/11/23/a-la-grave-le-telepherique-qui-divise-la-mecque-du-hors-piste_6103207_3234.html
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:
The JCB hydrogen engine is just bonkers. I cannot fathom why they want to burn it like petrol rather than put it through a fuel cell which is considerably more efficient than burning it.
I presume that at present the H2 fuel cell cost is prohibitive as opposed to existing IC technology, so hopefully the H2-IC engines would just be an interim measure until the FC technology becomes financially viable.
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