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Canada Instructor Course - any thoughts?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hi all.

My son is considering an 11 week CSIA L1 and L2 course in Whistler. Does anyone have any experience of learning the Canadian system and then any advice in terms of its value for future employment - in Canada or beyond? He's a UK national. Would be very interested to hear other people's experiences of instructor training and its outcomes.

Thanks

jim
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Hi Jim,

My wife did an 11 week course in Fernie some years ago. She followed it up with further courses in Europe, and has worked for one of our local Swiss ski schools for the last 5 years or so.

So yes, the Canadian system has served her well.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@adaptedsilence, is your son intending on being a ski instructor for a job?

If he's doing the course because he wants to be an instructor, then there are probably more cost efficient ways of doing so, however these types of courses make life easy in that they cover everything for you, all you need is some spending money and you're good to go.

In terms of spending a full season abroad, the fact Canada give you a 6 month tourist visa is a lot easier than the 90 days in Europe, so that's definitely one plus for Canada over Europe, although there are visa's you can apply for in France for example.
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@swskier,

Thanks for the replies.

The original intention was that he’d do a course that gave him the opportunity to instruct before a Uni course next year. This ship has sailed / been diverted by COVID issues and by him being somewhat late to the party.

He is a magnificent skier (the bug) with the temperament to make a great teacher. I do think it’s a career / lifestyle he could make work though he’s not primarily thinking of instructing as a long term career…….

There’s a lot of money involved and a whole lot of unknowns!

Jim
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@adaptedsilence, i'm currently going through the process myself.

I'm a bit older, 31 now, and work full time as an accountant, but have a nice dream of giving up that life and instructing instead.

I'm currently going through the Irish qualifications, IASI, have done level 1 and will do level 2 next year. If he thinks he wants to teach, and if he's a great skier anyway, levels 1 and 2 won't necessarily require a full gap year course. I did my level 1 at Hemel Hempstead and level 2 I'll do in a European destination. That way it saves a lot of time and money in comparison to a gap year course.

It doesn't give you the same experience for sure, but it'll get me to the same point as a 3 month gap year course would take.

It's up to him how he does it, if he intends not to teach, i'd question why bother doing that type of course, there's other courses out there that he could do for a similar length of time that would improve his skiing but take out the teaching stuff, and all the shadowing that goes alongside it, or alternatively, just go skiing for a season with no instruction.

Plenty of options out there to consider, and a nice position to be in to be considering them all!

Happy to chat about anything else that's out there (albeit I haven't done the courses, I just know what sort of things are available)
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@swskier

Thanks again, all useful stuff. Do you have to do the 35 hours of teaching / shadowing before your level2 or is that a Basi Specific requirement?

jim
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
As your son is already a competent skier, there is really no need to pay for the 11 week course.
I did level 1 CSIA in a week. Level 2 a year later in 2 weeks. Just go to the CSIA website and look for when/where they run their courses.
Yes it does mean you have to arrange flights/accom/transport but well worth it.
BTW I was 54 & 55 when I did it.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
As similar to @Old Man Of Lech,
I did the level 1 CSIA in 4 days in 2013 ... so I was 63 at the time.
Up at Lake Louise.

I was not interested in making a career out of it, it was just a fun thing to do.
There were quite a few young gap year lads and gals having a whale of a time of course, I should have been younger Smile
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@adaptedsilence, I have to do a total of 70 hours shadowing before doing the level 2 course. 20 for level 1 and 50 before the level 2 course. BASI I belive is 35 and 35 so again 70 before the level 2 course.

Obviously this takes time, but if he's looking at doing a season anyway, I'm sure he could pick those hours up easy enough around doing exams.

Loads to think about, wish I was in the same shoes of planning a season also!
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I terms of working in Canada if you are young enough you can apply for a 2 year working holiday visa. The applicants go into a pool and they draw out amcertain amount at different times of the year. You are certainly not guaranteed one as it's oversubscribed, but stay in the pool long enough and eventually you should get lucky.

As others have said the packaged courses are terrible value for money, and Whistler is the most expensive place you could pick if budget is a concern (although it does have its advantages). If he's a good skier already as others said he can just do the course on its on - which also leaves him way more time for freeskiing which has to be more fun than being coached how to pass the instructors course.

For reference just how bad value it is - 11 week course is around £10k plus flights. Alternatively you could rent a private room in fernie for 6 months £2280, lift pass about £800, 3 extra months and £7k saved. I regularly go out for 3 months in BC for comfortably less than £3k all in (flights, lift pass, accomodation, all food, transfers etc.). In fairness though Whistler is way more expensive than thses places so not a perfect comparison.

My personal point of view is that an instructors course is a bit of a waste unless you plan to use it. (Id say the same about a driving instructor course, I don't see skiing being any different). Others will disagree.

I have done a few seasons in hostels in BC so met plenty of young gap year kids, some of which were doing instructor courses. The kids not on courses had more fun as they just went skiing everyday doing what they wanted. Of the ones that became instructors the majority didn't enjoy it. The dream was get a job that allowed them to ski all day, but the reality was teaching isn't the same as skiing, especially when you get the small kids and spend the day doing magic carpet laps and more babysitting than Instructing.

My advice for gap year kids is try to avoid working if money allows, if not get a bar job - free drinks, highly sociable, and free day times for skiing. Other less fun evening jobs like restaurant staff are also good. Lifties not the worst job either, you get quite a bit of skiing and free lift pass.

If someone wants to be instructor and has the temperament (which is not "well I really like skiing, so this is a way to ski all day") I'd say go shadow a few snowdome/dryslope lessons. See I it's definitely for you before committing to anything
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Don't want to put a downer on it, but you might want to check the prices for this year- admittedly I'm not booking a room for a season but lots of people are with new found work location freedom are.

I just booked a place in Revy. Initially I looked at the place I stayed a few years back, same time now over $1000 a night!! Similarly when I booked a place at Red Mountain/Rossland- nearly had a heart attack at the prices! Wouldn't like to contemplate what a place in Whistler would be (luckily I have a fairly fixed price option there)!
Strangely Kicking horse/Golden was still relatively unchanged
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
stuarth wrote:
Don't want to put a downer on it, but you might want to check the prices for this year- admittedly I'm not booking a room for a season but lots of people are with new found work location freedom are.

I just booked a place in Revy. Initially I looked at the place I stayed a few years back, same time now over $1000 a night!! Similarly when I booked a place at Red Mountain/Rossland- nearly had a heart attack at the prices! Wouldn't like to contemplate what a place in Whistler would be (luckily I have a fairly fixed price option there)!
Strangely Kicking horse/Golden was still relatively unchanged


The price I said for fernie is the fernie pub season accomodation deal which is definitely that price this year (although now sold out but you can go on a waiting list). Of course Whistler will be super expensive, that's nothing new. Looking online most on the interior hostels are still priced around £20 or less per night, so about £1500 11 weeks (length of Whistler course). However, if you contact them directly most do a reduced rate for long stays so can probably bring that down even more.

Of course golden didn't change, nobody wants to live there snowHead (I've actually done a few seasons in golden and the skiing in fantastic, the town not so much, but wouldn't change it as it keeps the crowds away).
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@boarder2020, I wonder if just pitching up and joining the local race club for some coaching would be an alternative to instruction. Both will cost of course. I'm not sure skiing around all day is the best way of passing L2 but I would say the 14 year old racers in my club have enough technique to pass L2/L3 (BASI).

Maybe buying a Carv would be an investment too.

The long hours of shadowing some exams require should be good for the teach side.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
davidof wrote:
@boarder2020, I wonder if just pitching up and joining the local race club for some coaching would be an alternative to instruction. Both will cost of course. I'm not sure skiing around all day is the best way of passing L2 but I would say the 14 year old racers in my club have enough technique to pass L2/L3 (BASI).

Would your club really allow an adult to join and do race training ?

I see French clubs doing different things. The local club where I ski splits the trainees into strict age groups, valley clubs who also train there just lump everyone together.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@davidof, Some of the posters seem to suggest they pretty much just rocked up and passed the csia level 1 and 2 courses. It seems like if you are a decent skier you might be ok, but I'm no expert having not done the course. I'm certainly not saying skiing about all day is better preparation than specific instruction. I'm saying it is likely way more fun though. If OPs sons dream was to be a ski instructor, he'd spent hours shadowing lessons already, wasn't considering university and other long term career options my advice would be different. However, I've seen for most doing their pre/post uni gap year, it's a one season thing that's better spent being enjoyed (and at a fraction of the cost) than training for an instructor course.

As for carv there are still many issues, I don't think it can replace a human instructor at all but that's a whole different thread.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@boarder2020, on my L1 course I was surprised at the standard of some of those that passed if i'm honest and from what i've heard the standard across many other associations for a L1 pass isn't necessarily great. L2 is more difficult, but it particularly ramps up from L3.

I'm totally with your line of thought on this, if the OP's son is just doing the course as something to fill his gap year, and won't use the teaching qualifications, then there's a lot better ways to splash out £11k + spending money!

I was just looking earlier at Airbnb, you can get an apartment in Chatel for 4 weeks from Jan 8th - Feb 5th for £1070, which sleeps 4 possibly 6 people. Up to 19 years old season pass is €925 with 40% of if purchased before 31/10/21 and 20% of until 30/11/21.

Go to ski school of some description for 4 weeks at c. £1000-1200 and you've got a whole month of skiing for around £2.5k, plus a little bit of travel. Finding accomodation during February will be more difficult, but go back out for March again plus a few weeks in April, at a similar price, and you've done 8-10 weeks for skiing for £5k with tuition the whole time, and that's before you even look at trying to split the cost of accomodation between more than 1 person.
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@swskier, If I were doing a gap year I would probably choose your plan. I would look for a resort with a ski school that offers "competition" level ski instruction rather than punter instruction if I wanted to push my technique.

@rjs, The OP is thinking of Canada and I've no idea what they allow or even offer, it was just a vague thought though. James wossishisface and his missus have done race training so they would have more idea what a French club would allow but you might be right about not just pitching up.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
swskier wrote:
... I'm totally with your line of thought on this, if the OP's son is just doing the course as something to fill his gap year, and won't use the teaching qualifications, then there's a lot better ways to splash out £11k + spending money! ...
Me too.

The suggestion that people may ultimately earn money from the parents' money means they can
classify it as "an investment" rather than something else, so it provides a narrative to justify the spend.

I wonder what percentage of participants end up using their "ticket"?
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@davidof, I haven't met any Canadian racers for several years now. I would expect things are similar to France, every ski area is different. In France the smaller areas seem most keen on racing as there is less other stuff for the kids to do and running a race at their area can be a way to advertize the resort.

I think that JamesHJ was lucky at Villard-de-Lans, the last post I saw here they were struggling to find something equivalent in the Jura.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I think if I were a parent with a kid trying to sell me on this I'd be positively cynical about the "investment" angle and the idea that there is a job behind it. It perhaps provides a bit of wallpapering for a future CV - I went off and learned discipline, responsibility, communication skills and leadership sounds a lot better than I just skied and partied and loved it. Whether that's £5k plus of wallpaper I dunno.

Cynical me if I was an interviewer might say "So Mummy & Daddy paid for you to have your bottom wiped, why did you not sort it all yourself?"


Last edited by Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do. on Fri 22-10-21 17:24; edited 1 time in total
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@Dave of the Marmottes, you should see the stuff kids are doing for their medical school applications to boost their CVs

"Spent 3 weeks at Barts hospital emptying bed-pans while the nurses did Tik-Tok dances"

My son removed his ski stuff from his UCAS personal statement as I didn't think it gave the right impression, maybe I'm wrong.

It is really quite impressive what under 18 years get up to when they are motivated/passionate/pushed.
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In the interior resorts I can only think of kids race clubs, and even then they seem to stop at quite a young age and switch to freeride clubs (and boy can some of those kids ski!). I guess piste skiing in general isn't really seen as cool, it's all about the off-piste which is obviously way more accessible in Canadian resorts due to in bounds avy control. I think that's also shown in lessons, where for anyone other than beginners the instructor is more like a guide that throws in some instruction -expect to spend more time off-piste than doing drills.

OP says his son is a magnificent skier. In which case does he need much instruction? I've seen plenty of people that were above average/good that came out for a season, made friends with a few excellent local skiers, and were absolutely crushing it by the end of the season (some even got top 10 in a 2* fwt qualifier). Sure a few 1:1 private lessons to work on specific things, but I think a whole course is probably overkill.

If you are going to do a course avalanche and backcountry is the way I would go. But I really don't think any kind of course is necessary, if you want to go enjoy a season of skiing that's enough on its own. I'm not sure why some feel the need to justify a gap year with useless certificates that won't be used and are massively overrated as CV material.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
as it happens my son went to a recruitment thing at his school for the local ski hill ( he's too young, but liked the initiative! Very Happy ) as he's decided he needs a job.
His plan to learn to be a ski instructor involves him getting on a bus up the hill, the mountain paying for his pass and instructor courses, and getting paid (a bit at least) - seems like a much better plan than spending thousands , though I guess his sponsor (me!) has already paid (and continues to pay) for the training part! Madeye-Smiley


Last edited by After all it is free Go on u know u want to! on Fri 22-10-21 16:14; edited 2 times in total
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@boarder2020,
most mountains have a race club (more than freeride for sure, probably more than freestyle too).
Most race clubs run to 18.
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@stuarth, the suggestion was the ops son join a race club, I was simply pointing out that race clubs for adults are not really a thing like Europe. From the places I've been most of the kids shift from racing to freeride before they hit 16 (personal choice they prefer freeride, it's cooler than racing), but that migt say more about the kind of places I go - who wants to ski gates at kicking horse?! Look at the kids Canada sends to the downhill world juniors they are usually east coasters. West coasters tend to gravitate towards powder/off-piste/freeride and to be honest why wouldn't you when live in pretty much the ideal environment for it.
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@boarder2020,

racing is far too serious Madeye-Smiley
agree that the East coast is probably more conducive to racing, same with the mogul skiiers. Though BC still manages to produce some good downhill racers, and quite a lot of good skiercross athletes.
That said racing is still popular, the school's round here all do ski racing.

I tried to find an adult race club when we moved here and there wasn't a whole lot ( though I think a former snowhead did run a program once?). Whistler has drop-in programs and the local adult race series (though there is quite a good chance you'll be skiing against and in the giant ruts of ex-WC skiiers!)

Fortunately Alpine Canada/BC alpine do have a pretty balanced program that doesn't focus just on gates, but I do feel bad for the racer kids lining up with their race skis some days! snowHead

As you pointed out, if you spend a season out here "just skiing", you're probably going to get pretty good.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Race clubs are mainly kids only. Masters out of Nakiska is adult race club, but Nakiska wouldn't be my first choice for a whole season

@stuarth, I wouldn't feel bad for the race kids. They love it. My son raced to FIS and then switched to ski cross. He went to Lausanne Youth Olympic games for Canada for ski cross in 2020 and has great fun. Daughter now racing FIS alpine. Last year to prevent too much training and no racing due to covid they all got their level 1 and their level 1 Avalanche
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I did a CSIA level 1 course. Best thing I ever did for my skiing. It’s all dependent on the instructor but the guy who did my course very empathetically corrected my faults and turned me in to a much better skier. Saying an instructor course is a waste of time is rubbish. Took me years to consolidate.

Also convinced me I would never want to do it professionally but I’m not a patient person. It’s more fun to blast around with your mates.

The literature that came with the course was second to none. And that was a large part of what I took from it. Understanding the science.

The only thing against Whistler is it’s a party town. But you’re only young once.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Quote:

Saying an instructor course is a waste of time is rubbish.


It's a waste of time if you don't plan to teach. If you want to become a better skier a more time efficient and likely much cheaper way is to just get tuition. It would be laughed at in any other sport or profession if you said you were going to train as a teacher/instructor as a way to improve your own ability.

Quote:

Also convinced me I would never want to do it professionally but I’m not a patient person. It’s more fun to blast around with your mates.


This is exactly the mistake I try to get people to avoid. Most go into it with their eyes closed, and if they had bothered to shadow a few lessons beforehand would realise it's not what they want. They then "waste" a gap year training when they could have just been freeriding with friends all day everyday.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
https://instructor-academy.com/ Runs CSIA courses and exams in Andorra and some training and courses in Alpine resorts too. Although at the last time I checked, Level 4 exam could only be done in Canada.
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