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Taking teenagers skiing this winter?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
hawkesbaynz wrote:
https://www.headforpoints.com/2021/11/10/austria-bans-unvaccinated-from-hotels/

There are quite a few errors in this article, including regarding dates and rules for entry and access. Do not use this as a basis for planning.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Many thanks @Skimum1 & @Susang73 & have now booked the antigen at Gatwick Airport, think this will be OK for border control at eurotunnel, we'll have a back up plan just in case.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Skimum1 wrote:
@Gazzza, you mentioned false positives before - false positives are very rare so I really wouldn't worry about that. Still testing positive on a PCR after an infection happens for a while to some unlucky people but it really is extremely unlikely on an antigen test. Catching covid and testing positive again, well that's a different matter and of course will be a risk.


It may be unlikely but it's still a possibility - I had a colleague in March get a false positive test on their then mandatory arrival test at Accra airport (for which you were charged USD 150 for an antigen test before you were allowed to leave the airport!) and forced into chargeable hotel quarantine as a result. It was a costly and time wasting experience, but at least he could carry on business remotely. My frustration for a ski holiday being trashed would however know no bounds ! snowHead Particularly given my teen has recently recovered so is currently as good as fully vaccinated.
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Can anyone on the ground confirm the testing required for the pass sanitaire for teenagers (assuming rates over 200 of course)....I thought it was lateral flow (supervised) within 72 hours but read in the Telegraph this afternoon it is PCR within 48?
Makes a big difference to whether a family trip is viable or not?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ski/advice/rules-around-vaccination-ski-holidays-winter/

Quote...."Children aged 12 and over are included in the 'pass sanitaire' rules for hospitality venues where there are more than 50 people (see above). This means over-12s must be double jabbed, provide proof of infection or a negative PCR test no more than 48 hours old. "


Cheers.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
For entry purposes it's only 24 hours, whether PCR or antigen. For Pass Sanitaire everything I have read so far has said a -ve test gives you 72hrs, so either it's changed or the article is wrong.
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@Gazzza, thanks, presume Lateral Flow or PCR?
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/coronavirus-advice-for-foreign-nationals-in-france/coronavirus-statements/article/applying-for-a-covid-certificate-if-you-were-vaccinated-abroad-procedure-for

"A temporary QR code valid 72 hours can also be generated by a healthcare professional following a negative RT-PCR or antigen test (see below)."
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Gazzza wrote:
Skimum1 wrote:
@Gazzza, you mentioned false positives before - false positives are very rare so I really wouldn't worry about that. Still testing positive on a PCR after an infection happens for a while to some unlucky people but it really is extremely unlikely on an antigen test. Catching covid and testing positive again, well that's a different matter and of course will be a risk.


It may be unlikely but it's still a possibility - I had a colleague in March get a false positive test on their then mandatory arrival test at Accra airport (for which you were charged USD 150 for an antigen test before you were allowed to leave the airport!) and forced into chargeable hotel quarantine as a result. It was a costly and time wasting experience, but at least he could carry on business remotely. My frustration for a ski holiday being trashed would however know no bounds ! snowHead Particularly given my teen has recently recovered so is currently as good as fully vaccinated.


That sounds horrendous! Shocked Poor man. Of course stats I have looked at relating to false positives being v v rare were only UK ones and having undergone some testing in France I feel fairly confident the same sort of outcomes are likely. I've never been to Accra so couldn't comment!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Has anyone managed to get the Italian Green pass system to approve a NHS Covid Pass QR code for a single vaccinated UK teenager?

The VerifacaC19 app which is being used in Italy to verify vaccination status works on my double jabbed QR code but not on my 17 years old's single vaccination code. I read here (https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021/10/12/green-pass-which-countries-in-europe-do-you-need-one-for) that you can get a Green Pass for single vaccination. Perhaps this is only true if you are an Italian citizen. Like others have reported, my 13 year old daughter also vaccinated but unable to get a QR code for her and 119 helpline says we will not get one as it is not NHS policy - hope that changes over the coming weeks.

With the prospect of multiple antigen testing for the kids whilst in Italy and the potential of getting stuck there, we are thinking of cancelling our holiday Shocked .
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I understand from the journalist that the piece about our vaccine proof predicament for 12 to 15 year olds will be published in the "i" paper and online tomorrow.

I haven't seen it, so I am hoping it's both accurate and helpful to our cause.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Joyceycat, I can't believe the government are not aware of the problem that the App is inflexible and has been overtaken by overseas decisions...they just don't see it as a priority to fix, not least because I suspect they are still quietly keen to minimise overseas travel.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@snowhound Oh I'm quite sure it's not a priority for the government to fix (and I fully expect no resolution from them to this at all, I'm sorry to say), but I would like to see the crapness of the situation pointed out in public - even if its just so it can be added to the ever lengthening list of all the other crapness we are currently having to endure...
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Here is the i article... witness my ugly mug in print !

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/nhs-covid-pass-travel-disruption-under-16s-ineligible-vaccine-passport-1294302
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@sheffskibod, @Joyceycat, great job
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Great article. Well done on publicising the issue.
The next hurdle is when you get the QR code for the single vaccinated child, will it be recognised as suitable for the Italian Green Pass?
I checked my son’s QR code and the VerificaC19 app just gives a Red Cross. I had read that some got a blue tick for use in Italy only but sadly not in our case. Anyone had success?
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
There appears to be a way of people who are vaccinated outside of France who can't generate a QR code getting one:

https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/coronavirus-advice-for-foreign-nationals-in-france/coronavirus-statements/article/applying-for-a-covid-certificate-if-you-were-vaccinated-abroad-procedure-for

From reading the info, this currently seems to not be available to UK citizens, based on the assumption that they can generate their own QR code. Has anyone tried querying if this route would be available to UK 12-15s?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/16711364/brits-holiday-nightmare-europe-teens-ban/

Finally getting some more news coverage.
I hasten to add I am not a reader of the Currant Bun, but happened upon the article whilst googling.

The I article was good, great job by all involved. First piece of factually correct journalism I've seen in as long as I can remember Laughing Laughing Laughing
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well done on the press coverage!

That diplomate.gouv.fr link is interesting thanks @sugarmoma666, and provides a glimmer of hope! My understanding before that link...

Aside from the App/QR code problems, the bigger issue (as I understand it) is that France and presumably the wider EU(?) doesn't recognise UK kids aged 12-17 as 'vaccinated' because they have only had one jab. Until the UK govt allows 12-17 year-olds to have 2 doses of a 2 dose vaccine or the French govt recognise the UK's single-dose approach, we will be stuck testing in resort every 2-3 days to qualify for the Pass Sanitaire (Health Pass), without which the kids might not even be able to have a hot choc or use the loo in a mountain restaurant. We've decided to take the gamble at Christmas but it does feel like it's going to be a painful experience!
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My 16 yr old had his one jab, and also tested positive and was poorly with Covid, back in the summer.

I've read that France will accept the fact that he now has natural immunity / antibodies, as being acceptable, in lieu of a 2nd dose. Does anyone know if this is correct? And, if so, would we need any documentation to prove the fact - eg that he had recovered - other than his positive test result?

Thanks in advance.
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Similar situation for my 15-year-old niece - she has had 2 doses of a 2 dose vaccine for underlying health reasons. However, she can't get the proof the French require via the NHS app because she is Under 16... so no Pass Sanitaire even though she qualifies as vaccinated in France. Confused
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sugarmoma666 wrote:
There appears to be a way of people who are vaccinated outside of France who can't generate a QR code getting one:

https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/coronavirus-advice-for-foreign-nationals-in-france/coronavirus-statements/article/applying-for-a-covid-certificate-if-you-were-vaccinated-abroad-procedure-for

From reading the info, this currently seems to not be available to UK citizens, based on the assumption that they can generate their own QR code. Has anyone tried querying if this route would be available to UK 12-15s?


I looked at that a while back, but discounted it as it very explicitly excludes citizens of the UK.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Ricky B, my understanding is his one jab means nothing in France, he would need two and have the NHS covid pass with QR code (in app or paper form) to prove it.

Technically I believe his recovery (if less than 6 months before the end of your trip) would work, but UK PCR positive test result emails don't have the QR code so I believe the challenge is proving it. If we could just rock up with the PCR result it would be problem solved and I'd be jumping for joy and booking France - but I don't think that is the case.

If he has the NHS app and he can see proof of recovery in there, ie. a positive test with a QR code, or if his NHS app will generate a covid pass for travel, with QR code, based on his +ve test recovery, then that might fly. Be interested to hear from anyone with experience.
That said myn is 13 so is scuppered as he can't access the NHS pass anyway, so it won't work for him, nor can I test it. I'm not sure how +ve tests appear in the NHS app.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Trevskii wrote:
Similar situation for my 15-year-old niece - she has had 2 doses of a 2 dose vaccine for underlying health reasons. However, she can't get the proof the French require via the NHS app because she is Under 16... so no Pass Sanitaire even though she qualifies as vaccinated in France. Confused


I notice that you can get the NHS app if you're over 13, is it a case that while you can get the app, it doesn't show the necessary covid pass?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
I think that's correct. This page is is quite informative/definitive re the Covid pass: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/get-digital-covid-pass/
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joffboy wrote:
Has anyone managed to get the Italian Green pass system to approve a NHS Covid Pass QR code for a single vaccinated UK teenager?

The VerifacaC19 app which is being used in Italy to verify vaccination status works on my double jabbed QR code but not on my 17 years old's single vaccination code. I read here (https://www.euronews.com/travel/2021/10/12/green-pass-which-countries-in-europe-do-you-need-one-for) that you can get a Green Pass for single vaccination. Perhaps this is only true if you are an Italian citizen. Like others have reported, my 13 year old daughter also vaccinated but unable to get a QR code for her and 119 helpline says we will not get one as it is not NHS policy - hope that changes over the coming weeks.

With the prospect of multiple antigen testing for the kids whilst in Italy and the potential of getting stuck there, we are thinking of cancelling our holiday Shocked .


It works for my seventeen year olds 1/2 qr code (make sure you selecting the travel not domestic version from the nhs app).

As I’ve mentioned before it gives a *blue* tick (“valid in Italy only” - in Italian) as opposed to my own 2/2 -> green tick (“valid in EU”).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Thanks. We did use the Travel QR code but we get a Red Cross. Appreciate the help. I’ll see if the 119 call centre can help.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Been round the houses again today, I have just let rip by email to my MP (Liam Fox)'s PA and she has just sent (on his behalf - as we know MPs are too busy doing their other jobs to write letters on behalf on constituents....) what she calls " a blast to Sajid Javid to ask why the DHSC is being so unhelpful". Not holding my breath, and off for a large Friday evening G&T
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Well after 10 days I got a response back from my MP (via a Caseworker).

"Thank you for your email to Rehman Chishti MP, I am responding as Rehman’s Senior Caseworker. I hope that you are well.

You raise an importance issue which of course is subject to, what remains, a very serious ongoing health crisis at the global level and will likely do so for a significant time to come.

It is of course for countries to set their own immigration policies and in emergency circumstances these will be very strictly controlled and as we ourselves have also implemented over this period.

We have written on your behalf to ministers at the Foreign Office to ask on your behalf their advice on the discussions they have had with foreign nations with regard to their entry rules where there is a clash between our respective public health policies with regard to Covid-19 vaccination, with particular reference to 12-15 year olds.

We have also written to ministers at the Department of Health and Social Care. It has been the case through the pandemic and remains the case now that availability of the vaccine is based upon the advice of the independent Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation who of course will be rightly considering the public health first and foremost.

The priority at present is to continue providing the booster vaccine to vulnerable demographics within the population which in recent weeks has reached 10million doses, as well as ensuring doses are available to the full population 12-15 and also for people only coming forward now for their initial 1st and 2nd doses. The UK in the course of recent weeks has surpassed the injection of 100 million doses in total.

We had asked ministers whether they are taking international travel concerns into consideration, and have also asked their advise that further to the completion of the booster programme whether the Department and the NHS is planning for greater flexibility for the distribution of doses should it be the case that there no longer be a need to control access within tight parameters for the public health as has been the case over the last 12 months.


I hope that this is reassuring to you, when we have responses on your behalf from Ministers we will provide these to you. "


Pretty useless response - but I am reading it that there isn't enough vaccinations to go round so they are prioritising boosters and adults who haven't had it! First time I have seen that argument!

I have booked my outgoing LFT test and will phone the pharmacy in France nearer the time to book tests for when we are there. When you look at the cost of a whole ski holiday, the additional cost for tests is quite small in comparison. Her 18yo brother will probably spend more on beer in the week, then I will spend on her Covid tests Laughing
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@Susang73, my reply to this is to say - “so you are saying there is a vaccine shortage and this is why the additional protection of a second dose is being withheld from our children, in favour of the more vulnerable adults?”
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
My analysis is that it's not vaccine dose availability that's the bottleneck, but the capacity to deliver doses, because GP surgeries are now directing their efforts back to general practice. So now that the first - most at risk - tranche of immunised are losing that immunity, there is a priority regime in place which keeps the youngest at the back of the queue.

I think that the government doesn't want to admit to this, even if it is not their fault as such. But experience should tell them that it'd be much better to be honest and - if it's true - say that parents with younger children should just write off family travel this winter. Or accept the cost/inconvenience of regular testing beforehand, while on holiday, and before return. And that parents shouldn't expect this to change before April-May 2022. But I suspect that they really don't want the negative parental (i.e. voter) response they'd get from issuing such statements.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@LaForet, suspect you are right but the subterfuge makes me VERY cross and with they will admit to it.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Off to France (Les Arc) after Christmas, party includes our 16 year old son.

He’s single jabbed (Pfizer in October) and also had a positive PCR result for Covid in mid August; both show up in the NHS app on his phone.

Will this (specifically, the PCR as evidence of having had and recovered from Covid) be sufficient for Passé Sanitaire purposes?
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
It's a tricky one. Having been winging it and not "following the science", the govt now seems to be adhering to what the JCVI recommends - that the risk to u18s from a second dose outweighs the benefits to them. Given that healthy young people seem to have virtually no chance of serious repercussions from catching COVID you can understand why the JCVI didn't recommend vaccinating them.

Presumably, if the data from countries that are double-dosing u18s suggests the risks from vaccination don't outweigh the benefits of vaccination the policy will change at some point?
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@CV,

a lower chance perhaps, but far from no chance unfortunately, so no, actually I don't quite get why you would say kids wouldn't need to to get vaccinated

All vaccinated under 18s double dosed here, and under 12s probably starting in the next few weeks.
Guidance on this side of the pond (both Canada and US) is that even if you have had covid you should still get the full vaccine course. None of this messing around with "having had covid protects you, so don't need to be fully vaccinated" type stuff you see on this thread!


Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Sat 13-11-21 6:15; edited 8 times in total
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@CV, This safer to get covid than vaccine I don’t buy.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-58772671.amp

How many children have ACTUALLY died from the vaccine? Given FAR greater numbers should have been vaccinated now when you look across states, Europe and Israel etc, vs have contracted virus, it seems very surprising they were saying the benefit only just outweighs risk?
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The Times have picked up on the lack of access to QR codes for under 16s as well as over 60s booster jab on pg3 today so hopefully there is a bit of momentum. The letter I got inviting my 12 year old to book his vaccine did say “we expect that they will also need to have a second dose, however we are awaiting guidance from the JCVI on the timing of a second dose, and will contact you when it is time for them to have it”. Obviously not before the Christmas hols but could possibly be before half term.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Updated Austria advice.
https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/austria/entry-requirements
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@LadyDi, Encouraging. If there is one thing which is consistent about our current government is that they tend to follow the loudest people shouting. The more noise about this the better.
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Yes I agree. The overseas angle is clearly the most unequal (especially for visiting the family or language trips for schools) but it runs the risk of most people not caring as it doesn’t effect them. The massive rate of infection in that age group should concern everyone and if you’re pro-vax the one jab policy is just nonsense.
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Even if 16 year olds can go, will lift queues etc be painful (with everyone having to show a passe sanitare) at every chair/bubble or are there other arrangements in place?
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