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Taking teenagers skiing this winter?

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avachaos wrote:
dklemm wrote:
Yes you correct I found this:

"The measures applied to vaccinated adults extend under the same conditions to accompanying minors, whether or not they are vaccinated."

So this just applies to travel, they still need a daily test for skiing at the moment? But hopefully changing on 17th?


Sorry- but I think you may be making an incorrect assumption here- I have only seen your quote above in a section in the French guidance which refers to people travelling to France from a country on France's 'red list' - so in this context "measures" refer to the list of compelling reasons for travel and quarantine requirements etc..

There is some confusion about UK being on the 'red list', and frustrating discrepancies about this between official French guidance and guidance on YouGov.

I have scoured the internet, official sites, twitter, facebook etc. and I really cannot find a definitive answer as to whether single vaccinated (or unvaccinated) 12-15 year olds can travel. Some places say yes, others say no, and others say that this information has not yet been released. So, borders are now open but we have no idea whether our son can travel. We really need some clarity but don't know where to look.



So if you visit https://mobile.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/L-actu-du-Ministere/Certificate-of-international-travel#from2

Select : "TRAVEL TO/FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM"



The header section states

"As of Friday January 14, 2022, the rules for travel to and from the UK will change."
.......
"The measures applied to vaccinated adults extend under the same conditions to accompanying minors, whether or not they are vaccinated."

It then proceeds to sections:

1) You wish to leave Metropolitan France
2) You wish to enter Metropolitan France

My interpretation of this is the header section applied to both enter and leave.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
avachaos wrote:
dklemm wrote:
Yes you correct I found this:

"The measures applied to vaccinated adults extend under the same conditions to accompanying minors, whether or not they are vaccinated."

So this just applies to travel, they still need a daily test for skiing at the moment? But hopefully changing on 17th?


Sorry- but I think you may be making an incorrect assumption here- I have only seen your quote above in a section in the French guidance which refers to people travelling to France from a country on France's 'red list' - so in this context "measures" refer to the list of compelling reasons for travel and quarantine requirements etc..

There is some confusion about UK being on the 'red list', and frustrating discrepancies about this between official French guidance and guidance on YouGov.

I have scoured the internet, official sites, twitter, facebook etc. and I really cannot find a definitive answer as to whether single vaccinated (or unvaccinated) 12-15 year olds can travel. Some places say yes, others say no, and others say that this information has not yet been released. So, borders are now open but we have no idea whether our son can travel. We really need some clarity but don't know where to look.


https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/L-actu-du-Ministere/Certificate-of-international-travel

4th paragraph down under the travel to/from "United Kingdom" tab on the right hand side:
"The measures applied to vaccinated adults extend under the same conditions to accompanying minors, whether or not they are vaccinated."
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When we travelled to France in summer minors were classed as under 12s by the French
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dklemm wrote:
avachaos wrote:
dklemm wrote:
Yes you correct I found this:

"The measures applied to vaccinated adults extend under the same conditions to accompanying minors, whether or not they are vaccinated."

So this just applies to travel, they still need a daily test for skiing at the moment? But hopefully changing on 17th?


Sorry- but I think you may be making an incorrect assumption here- I have only seen your quote above in a section in the French guidance which refers to people travelling to France from a country on France's 'red list' - so in this context "measures" refer to the list of compelling reasons for travel and quarantine requirements etc..

There is some confusion about UK being on the 'red list', and frustrating discrepancies about this between official French guidance and guidance on YouGov.

I have scoured the internet, official sites, twitter, facebook etc. and I really cannot find a definitive answer as to whether single vaccinated (or unvaccinated) 12-15 year olds can travel. Some places say yes, others say no, and others say that this information has not yet been released. So, borders are now open but we have no idea whether our son can travel. We really need some clarity but don't know where to look.



So if you visit https://mobile.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/L-actu-du-Ministere/Certificate-of-international-travel#from2

Select : "TRAVEL TO/FROM THE UNITED KINGDOM"



The header section states

"As of Friday January 14, 2022, the rules for travel to and from the UK will change."
.......
"The measures applied to vaccinated adults extend under the same conditions to accompanying minors, whether or not they are vaccinated."

It then proceeds to sections:

1) You wish to leave Metropolitan France
2) You wish to enter Metropolitan France

My interpretation of this is the header section applied to both enter and leave.


OOOOOOH YOU ARE RIGHT- my apologies!! But, what is a minor arrrrrgh!!
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kettonskimum wrote:
When we travelled to France in summer minors were classed as under 12s by the French




Nooooooo! are you sure? Can you direct me to anything official?
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Hmmm....:

https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Travel-France-Are-under-18s-covered-by-parent-s-Covid-vaccine-status
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See here:
https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/coming-to-france-your-covid-19-questions-answered/

"For unvaccinated minors under 12 years, the vaccine status of their parents or accompanying guardians shall apply" implying that 12s and over use their own vaccination status. Either double vaccinated (+ 7 days) or one vaccination + recovery or you're not coming in.

They also say this "A COVID certificate proves the vaccination status, negative test result (less than 24h) or recovery of its holder (from 11 days to 6 months). To enter French territory, The COVID certificate is mandatory for everyone over the age of 12 years and two months." I assume in France a second jab is given 8 weeks after the first so they expect everyone to be fully vaccinated 2 months after their 12th birthday - and expect everyone else to do the same.

Unless there are any other rules for 12-15 year olds that I cannot find, this rules out one of our party who will be just 12 years and 3 months when we travel. Despite having her first jab the day after her 12th birthday, she won't be eligible for her 2nd until the day we're due to go at half term.
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I thought minors were anyone under 18. But maybe they are differentiating them now in sub groups of minors.
This is all a bit complicated.
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susieq78 wrote:
Hmmm....:

https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/Travel-France-Are-under-18s-covered-by-parent-s-Covid-vaccine-status


That article appears to be dates 18 October 2021 so I think it is out of date......
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"For unvaccinated minors under 12 years, the vaccine status of their parents or accompanying guardians shall apply" implying that 12s and over use their own vaccination status. Either double vaccinated (+ 7 days) or one vaccination + recovery or you're not coming in."

I interpreted that in the context of the preceding paragraph, about testing, as a weird way of saying under 12s do not need to test rather than over 12s must be vaccinated.

Has the 12yo had her first jab already? I though there was something about jab one being valid on it's own for 42 days..... although she would not be able to get a QR code so buggered. I'm sorry it has impacted your trip. Are you travelling directly in to France from UK? It seems possible to fly into another country eg Geneva and drive across border - I can't really ascertain whether it's against the rules to do that or just something you can get away with (IYSWIM).
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@paula,

That reflects my understanding. My son was 12 in December but is still within 12 weeks of having a positive test, so can’t have his first jab yet. We should be okay with the one plus recovery, but getting acceptable proof of the latter seems a bit hit and miss.

We’re going to our local mass vaccination centre tomorrow as my wife needs her FOURTH jab (was on a vaccine trial in 2020) and I’m hoping I’ll persuade them to let my son have his first jab 11 weeks after a positive test and then his second 11 weeks after that (which would be 7 days before our Easter trip) but I don’t fancy my chances of success.


Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Fri 14-01-22 10:07; edited 3 times in total
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paula wrote:
See here:
https://www.diplomatie.gouv.fr/en/coming-to-france/coming-to-france-your-covid-19-questions-answered/

"For unvaccinated minors under 12 years, the vaccine status of their parents or accompanying guardians shall apply" implying that 12s and over use their own vaccination status. Either double vaccinated (+ 7 days) or one vaccination + recovery or you're not coming in.

They also say this "A COVID certificate proves the vaccination status, negative test result (less than 24h) or recovery of its holder (from 11 days to 6 months). To enter French territory, The COVID certificate is mandatory for everyone over the age of 12 years and two months." I assume in France a second jab is given 8 weeks after the first so they expect everyone to be fully vaccinated 2 months after their 12th birthday - and expect everyone else to do the same.

Unless there are any other rules for 12-15 year olds that I cannot find, this rules out one of our party who will be just 12 years and 3 months when we travel. Despite having her first jab the day after her 12th birthday, she won't be eligible for her 2nd until the day we're due to go at half term.


This is so confusing- as there is definitely a quote on the French Interior Ministry that states "The measures applied to vaccinated adults extend under the same conditions to accompanying minors, whether or not they are vaccinated". This implies that non-fully vaccinated minors are covered by the vaccination status of their accompanying parents.

Clear as mud!
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I think the definition of minors is the problem. This article definitely states "minors under 12 years" and @kettonskimum, said "When we travelled to France in summer minors were classed as under 12s by the French"
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You know it makes sense.
The Independent seems to agree: https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/uk-travel-france-rules-latest-b1992181.html

"What about children?
The rules are expected to apply equally to everyone aged 12 and over. Under 12s need not be vaccinated nor take tests.

For proof of vaccination, 16-plus people should be able to access the NHS app. Children aged 12-15, or their parents, can apply online for an NHS Covid Pass letter, which is then posted out to them

The big problem for young British people is that many have received only one jab, which does not count for the purposes of entering France."
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paula wrote:
I think the definition of minors is the problem. This article definitely states "minors under 12 years" and @kettonskimum, said "When we travelled to France in summer minors were classed as under 12s by the French"


Exactly. The covid requirements appear to have been written as if minor is under 12…..whereas:

“French legislation provide different regulations according to the age and power of judgement of the minor, particularly in criminal matters. Minors are children under the age of 18 years (section 388 of the Civil Code). Young persons are persons between 21 and 25 years.”

I’m not sure that’ll be much help if challenged at the border / hotel / restaurant / lift though?
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I assumed in summer that minors were under 18s. On the day we travelled, I found out the French classified minors as under 12s. It was a most stressful day getting 2 negative tests sorted. I can't imagine they've raised the age of their classification 9f minors??

Added to that, French over 12s started being jabbed from June 2021. And they only have a 3-4 weeks gap until their 2nd jab. Our strategy doesn't match theirs so we're behind.

If nearly all French kids are double jabbed over 12 years I guess why special dispensation for ours? Their citizens wouldn't be happy!
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7ncj wrote:
paula wrote:
I think the definition of minors is the problem. This article definitely states "minors under 12 years" and @kettonskimum, said "When we travelled to France in summer minors were classed as under 12s by the French"


Exactly. The covid requirements appear to have been written as if minor is under 12…..whereas:

“French legislation provide different regulations according to the age and power of judgement of the minor, particularly in criminal matters. Minors are children under the age of 18 years (section 388 of the Civil Code). Young persons are persons between 21 and 25 years.”

I’m not sure that’ll be much help if challenged at the border / hotel / restaurant / lift though?


think you are confusing legal definition of a minor and the Covid jab requirements in France - all children in France over the age of 12 years and 2 months are eligible to have had both jabs as they started a lot earlier than the UK and they also only have a 3/4 week interval between jabs - from what i read (got shot down for this yesterday by another contributor) it would appear France expect your over 12 year old to have had both jabs to enter France, but the rules are still clear as mud...glad our daughter is 15 and has had both jabs
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I think minors just means not adult, ie under 18. That is why the quotes above that state “minors under 12” is relevant. If all minors were under 12 you wouldn’t need to use “under 12” anywhere…
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Challenge is, elsewhere requirements state:

"minors are considered to have the same vaccination status as the accompanying adult."

Yep, clear as mud!
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Right at the top of this page:

https://www.interieur.gouv.fr/Actualites/L-actu-du-Ministere/Certificate-of-international-travel

there's a section that says:

"The nature of these measures for a given traveller in fact depends on several specific criteria:

- The journey involves entering or leaving France;
- The country the person is travelling from or to: France or other country of the European Area, other third countries including the United Kingdom;
- The traveller’s nationality or country of residence;
- The traveller’s age (over or under 12 years old)."

That would suggest that 12 may be the key age in the regulations.
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Maybe I’m too optimistic but I think its clear and I think the newspapers have probably over simplified and I am almost certain their journalists have spent less time on this than we have!!:

Immigration:
All minors (under 1Cool inherit their parents status.
Everyone needs to agree to random testing unless your are under 12.
Quarantine etc applies to unvaccinated people unless they are under 18 and travelling with vaccinated parents.

New vaccine pass:
Adults need to be fully vaccinated including a booster (though timing of the booster requirement is about to change).
12-17 old pass sanitaire should be the requirement which would mean daily testing if not fully vaccinated under French rules.
I wonder at some point if the daily testing will go back to every three days as it was in the summer.

As I say, maybe I am over optimistic and I’m sorry to say that I’m glad we go at April (having had New Year canned) as there will be a few people testing whether I am right or not before then…
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I just read Simon Caulder's report in The Independent. It says what we all feared - Over 12's need to be double jabbed to enter France Sad
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I get why everyone is worried. But the wording hasn’t changed since when we went on the 17th December. My teenagers weren’t double jabbed then under French law and there wasn’t a problem getting in

The French documentation is rubbish, but I am 100% sure that minors is this context is under 18s
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Stillhopeful wrote:
I just read Simon Caulder's report in The Independent. It says what we all feared - Over 12's need to be double jabbed to enter France Sad


That part of his feature relates to travel within France, not travel to France
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Our government's website states:

'Vaccination status
The French Government recognises the following vaccines: Pfizer, Moderna, Oxford/AstraZeneca, and Johnson & Johnson (the vaccines recognised by the European Medical Agency). “Fully vaccinated” is defined by the completion of a vaccination schedule, specifically:

1 week after the second dose of Pfizer, Moderna, Oxford/AstraZeneca
4 weeks after the single and only dose of Johnson & Johnson
1 week after the single dose of any of the above vaccines if you have previously tested positive for COVID-19'

So if you have records of the single jab and positive PCR test it looks like you can take your single jabbed covid recovered child skiing!! Very Happy
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So you teenager will have 'vaccination status' with proof of covid vaccination and previous positive PCR test - that is what I am being told.
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"So if you have records of the single jab and positive PCR test it looks like you can take your single jabbed covid recovered child skiing!!"

yeah but no but.... can't get a QR for this. NHS issue them for adults not teenagers. French pharmacies are breaking rules if they convert this to pass sanitaire (some are doing, kindly, but not strictly supposed to so very risky to travel on the assumption it will be done).
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I hope UK.Gov is correct - assuming it is - how do we evidence this as 12-15yr olds can't get the NHS Covid letter as they've only had one jab!
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I do not believe you will get a QR code for this - but it says you can enter France with this. It also says that you can get a Pass Sanitaire with this - on the Pass Sanitaire website link that I have been given.
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From Sante.FR:

'Who can apply for a vaccine equivalency health pass?
To get a vaccine equivalency health pass, the following conditions need to be respected:

Not having been vaccinated in one of the following countries: European Union member states, Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Cape Verde, El Salvador, Faroe Islands, Georgia, Iceland, Israel, Lebanon, Liechtenstein, Northern Macedonia, Moldavia, Morocco, Monaco, New Zealand, Norway, Panama, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, San Marino, Serbia, Singapore, Switzerland, Togo, Turkey, Ukraine, or the Vatican.
Be at least 12 years old
Having been vaccinated with an initial vaccination scheme that is recognized in France, as described below: '

So with a passport and the vaccination record (and positive PCR test if required) you can get a PS from a pharmacy - I have been told that from my holiday provider too.
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Link for PS is here:

https://www.sante.fr/how-to-obtain-a-french-health-pass

Link for travel requirements is here:

https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/france/entry-requirements

I hope this helps and is accurate.
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but you don't "get" a pass sanitaire as such, your own NHS QR code can be scanned in TAC Verif and so on, or imported into the Tous Anti Covid app, which is what everyone is referring to. But you need the all important QR code do we not - for UK teens? People from 3rd countries eg US can go to a pharmacy and be issued with a QR code if they can evidence 2 jabs but as UK travellers, we are expected to have our own NHS QR codes. And, the pharmacies are not supposed to issue you with a QR code based on test and recovery plus single jab, where the test is from outside the EU. Some pharmacies have done it....
please would you share the pass sanitaire weblink you refer to?

Agree it is good news for travel though, may well be able to travel with proof of positive test/recovery and documentation of single jab, if GP will provide it.
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No, the pharmacies won't give a Pass Sanitare (I've tried) without the NHS Covid letter and QR code. This is because, and I quote 'We are still not allow to convert vaccination pass from the UK.' If we were from USA for example, this would be allowed. You may get lucky and find a pharmacy that will do it - I believe some people have had luck with this. But the response I've had is from the pharmacy in Morzine.
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@Stillhopeful, some people have received a Pass Sanitaire after emailing their particulars to a pharmacy - well that is what they have said on SHs. The weblink for the Pass Sanitaire is here https://www.sante.fr/how-to-obtain-a-french-health-pass - it says you can get a PS which should allow you to ski QR code or not?
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Can't see reference to the timing of a recovery for a 15yr old......so would recovery from positive case in July plus single jab in December be ok for entry and to not require daily testing?
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@JayDub, thanks a lot - I'll give it try!
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@RobJsy, it looks like proof of a single dose is enough - weird. I am going to email some pharmacies and see what happens. We have just got proof of vaccination for our son from the gp. NHS 119 cannot provide the vaccine details for a single jab.
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Yes i'll try pharmacies too - will let you know if I get some success.
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ma94jcg wrote:
Stillhopeful wrote:
I just read Simon Caulder's report in The Independent. It says what we all feared - Over 12's need to be double jabbed to enter France Sad


That part of his feature relates to travel within France, not travel to France


Sorry ma94jcg, I disagree.

Simon Calder has written:

"What about children?
The rules are expected to apply equally to everyone aged 12 and over. Under 12s need not be vaccinated nor take tests.

For proof of vaccination, 16-plus people should be able to access the NHS app. Children aged 12-15, or their parents, can apply online for an NHS Covid Pass letter, which is then posted out to them

The big problem for young British people is that many have received only one jab, which does not count for the purposes of entering France.

For access to venues within France, children aged 12 to 17 are expected to have to prove vaccination, but not being boosted."
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@JayDub, the quote you have given exludes the UK from this type of conversion of evidence into QR code:

"To get a vaccine equivalency health pass, the following conditions need to be respected:

Not having been vaccinated in one of the following countries: European Union member states, Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Cape Verde, El Salvador, Faroe Islands, Georgia, Iceland, Israel, Lebanon, Liechtenstein, Northern Macedonia, Moldavia, Morocco, Monaco, New Zealand, Norway, Panama, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom, San Marino, Serbia, Singapore, Switzerland, Togo, Turkey, Ukraine, or the Vatican.
Be at least 12 years old
Having been vaccinated with an initial vaccination scheme that is recognized in France, as described below: '

Since we are in UK, we are not supposed to be getting equivalency health pass, because our own codes are already recognised in the EUDCC system. It's just teenagers can't get the NHS codes.
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