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RECCO detectors

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Came across this article about Recco and Italy being the second country to be fully covered, Austria is the other.

Until recently I thought that every resort had the capability to track as every manufacturer makes a point that it ‘s built into their jackets and trousers.

https://bit.ly/3uqPKoo

It’s certainly not a substitute for transceivers
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@radar, I was amused by the appropriateness of your username for a discussion about the Recco system, which of course consist of radar reflectors... Madeye-Smiley
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Alastair Pink, Toofy Grin Toofy Grin
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@Alastair Pink, Laughing Laughing
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Alastair Pink, I love your reflections on word play. Toofy Grin
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Mainly to help them find the bodies in the snowpack aren’t they? Can’t imagine they get the detector kit to the accident site within 15 minutes often.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
New detector equipment is quite small, about the size of a Portable CD player.
BUT they are almost useless. I trained on them last autumn as part of patrol course. The best result under ideal conditions was 20m. Which dropped to less than 5m as soon as you threw some variables into the mix. Comparison test done at the same time/location/conditions with Barryvox S was >90m ideal and 40m with as many variables as we could come up with (orientation of both transmit and receive + using mounds of snow cannon snow as blocking to simulate burial depth).

I understand the concept of having something on everone that you can detect - and the system does work on anything metalic to a certain degree. I also understand the comercial pressure when a system that showed early promiss and has been developed for decades.
My problem is recco (and even worse the Iphone app) are treated as a sort of tranciver system, when they are NOT.

For professional use the mobile phone detector made for prison use has a lot of potential, it has good range and direction (the recco has the directional ability of a 30 year old tranciver). But again its more a body recovery system (although it was used to find someone alive in Val D'Isere last year).
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Idris wrote:
For professional use the mobile phone detector made for prison use has a lot of potential, it has good range and direction (the recco has the directional ability of a 30 year old tranciver). But again its more a body recovery system (although it was used to find someone alive in Val D'Isere last year).

@Idris I recall that the detector used was not a transceiver - that group certainly had no transceivers - Was it the mobile phone detector system used to find the Avalanche Path survivor in Val? Do ski patrol have mobile phone detectors available to them? Whatever detector was used, I think it was brought to the scene by rescuers who weren’t ski patrol/pisteurs but gendarmes(?)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Grinning wrote:
Idris wrote:
For professional use the mobile phone detector made for prison use has a lot of potential, it has good range and direction (the recco has the directional ability of a 30 year old tranciver). But again its more a body recovery system (although it was used to find someone alive in Val D'Isere last year).

@Idris I recall that the detector used was not a transceiver - that group certainly had no transceivers - Was it the mobile phone detector system used to find the Avalanche Path survivor in Val? Do ski patrol have mobile phone detectors available to them? Whatever detector was used, I think it was brought to the scene by rescuers who weren’t ski patrol/pisteurs but gendarmes(?)


I think it was the Gendarmerie who brought in the mobile phone finder. This rescue was a huge multi agancey affair, and to beging with it was a PGHM rescue and Ski patrol who happed to be around were pulled in to help, and later Guides, instructors etc, eventually excavators!
There is talk of these being made available to ski patrol in future. This was the first time one has been used in this way. Due to the previously tiny and very specific market/application of these devices they are at the moment VERY expensive, as in more the price of a Car not a regular piece of electronic equipment.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
I have had in-depth discussions with piste patrol folks in both Austria and Switzerland about RECCO. Obviously, these people are fully-trained in mountain rescue, and most have actively taken-part in rescues. Here's what I learnt:

1. RECCO is in no way a substitute for avalanche transceivers, and they were never intended to be. If you are going off-piste, then everyone should be fully equipped and trained with avalanche transceivers and rescue techniques.

2. Where RECCO excels, is when people are lost in the mountains or wilderness: Hikers, climbers, hunters, bikers, canoeists, skiers, farmers, loggers etc. Remember, skiers and snowboards are not the only folk that use the mountains! snowHead The RECCO SAR Helicopter Detector can search from a height of 100m, and can search one kilometre squared in 6 minutes. With RECCO, the more powerful the radar beam, the further the beam can travel; whilst avalanche transceivers have a limited range. The RECCO helicopter detectors are very powerful.

www.recco.com

3. Once the helicopter has found someone, then the search teams can be sent-in with handheld detectors to narrow the search; this works well, but not so good if people are buried in the snow. And yes, sometimes they'll just be finding dead bodies.

4. In a ski resort, people get lost the whole time, and RECCO on a helicopter is very useful. And on the rare occasions that there have been on-piste avalanches (where of course your every-day skier will not have a transceiver), RECCO hand-held systems have saved lives.

5. All the piste patrol folks I talked to had RECCO detectors on their clothing; and some had extra ones on their ski boots and helmets.

Note that you can buy attachable RECCO reflectors online:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=recco+reflector&ref=nb_sb_noss_1&tag=amz07b-21
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Idris wrote:


I think it was the Gendarmerie who brought in the mobile phone finder. This rescue was a huge multi agancey affair, and to beging with it was a PGHM rescue and Ski patrol who happed to be around were pulled in to help, and later Guides, instructors etc, eventually excavators!
There is talk of these being made available to ski patrol in future. This was the first time one has been used in this way. Due to the previously tiny and very specific market/application of these devices they are at the moment VERY expensive, as in more the price of a Car not a regular piece of electronic equipment.


About 2000 euros.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Thanks @Idris.
I had no idea such phone detectors were so expensive so their scarcity and lack of availability to pisteurs makes sense.

That incident was less than 100m from the main road so supremely lucky that the gendarme and their equipment could be brought in so readily. Up the mountain … different story.

From Recco.com: “ Every second counts in an avalanche rescue. RECCO® Technology is a tool for professional rescuers to help locate buried victims; enabling professional rescuers to find victims within minutes. Members in your party will be the first to start searching so always BE EQUIPPED with an avalanche transceiver, probe and shovel.”

Recco themselves appreciate that their product is no substitute for a transceiver for the critical reason that the first rescuers will most often be your companions (who will not be carrying a Recco detector). The first order of business is to promote the use of transceivers but if you happen to be wearing something with a Recco strip, then all the better.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Idris wrote:
New detector equipment is quite small, about the size of a Portable CD player.


I had to go back and check the decade this was posted…
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
davidof wrote:
Idris wrote:


I think it was the Gendarmerie who brought in the mobile phone finder. This rescue was a huge multi agancey affair, and to beging with it was a PGHM rescue and Ski patrol who happed to be around were pulled in to help, and later Guides, instructors etc, eventually excavators!
There is talk of these being made available to ski patrol in future. This was the first time one has been used in this way. Due to the previously tiny and very specific market/application of these devices they are at the moment VERY expensive, as in more the price of a Car not a regular piece of electronic equipment.


About 2000 euros.


I was told more like 29,000euros!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Idris wrote:
davidof wrote:
Idris wrote:


I think it was the Gendarmerie who brought in the mobile phone finder. This rescue was a huge multi agancey affair, and to beging with it was a PGHM rescue and Ski patrol who happed to be around were pulled in to help, and later Guides, instructors etc, eventually excavators!
There is talk of these being made available to ski patrol in future. This was the first time one has been used in this way. Due to the previously tiny and very specific market/application of these devices they are at the moment VERY expensive, as in more the price of a Car not a regular piece of electronic equipment.


About 2000 euros.
.

I was told more like 29,000euros!


A wolfhound was used at Val d'Isere. They cost 2100 USD for ten. 2400 each.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Grinning wrote:

I had no idea such phone detectors were so expensive so their scarcity and lack of availability to pisteurs makes sense.

That incident was less than 100m from the main road so supremely lucky that the gendarme and their equipment could be brought in so readily. Up the mountain … different story. .


The Val d'Isere piste patrol along with local ski instructors and guides were the first responders. The PGHM is based in Bourg St Maurice, nearly an hour by road in the conditions that day (snow, wind). When the arrived it was just the dad they were looking for and there was a probe line in place going up the avalanche debris, but that can take hours.



The PGHM first used their Recco set... but so many people on the site had Recco pastels it was impossible to get an echo from any victim without clearing everyone out.



They had taken their Wolfhound on the off chance it would be useful. Initially it was complicated as so many mobile phones were switched on. The piste patrol got everyone to turn their phones off and then there was a single intermittent signal as the victim's phone connected periodically with the cell tower. Another gendarme then phoned the victim continuously to keep his phone active while the Wolfhound operator searched. He localized the victim down to a 5x5 meter area, a probe line searched while the Wolfhound was used in a fine search to get a better localization. The wolfhound operator said there was a lot of luck involved as it was far from ideal conditions for the equipment.



No excavators although a piste basher was on hand to transport the victim to the road. The victim was dug out with snow shovels as you might use to clear your drive. They didn't want to chop him in half with a digger Happy
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@davidof 2100/10=2400
- that’s some math Laughing
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Grinning wrote:
@davidof 2100/10=2400
- that’s some math Laughing


Obviously if you buy ten the unit cost is less. It's pretty common practise.
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davidof wrote:
Grinning wrote:
@davidof 2100/10=2400
- that’s some math Laughing

Obviously if you buy ten the unit cost is less. It's pretty common practise.

Ahhh, my bad - now it makes sense!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Just what a devoted Snowhead requires for Christmas — €2,400.

https://www.bvsystems.com/product/wolfhound-pro-cell-phone-detector/
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