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Summers and Chain Thread (to avoid thread creep)

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Who here will fess up to driving to the alps in Jan/Feb with 'only' summers and chains? I bought the whole caboodle in 2019 (winters and chains, the expensive kind, thank you Volvo) for a March trip, and didn't need either.

So who will be going summer and chains next season. Obvs horror stories are most welcome. Very Happy
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Charliegolf wrote:
...winters ...and didn't need either.


Was the temp above 7c then?

Hint; they're not just for snow. wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Summers and socks ...











wink
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Guilty....my winter seasons are based in Lauterbrunnen, Bernese Oberland. For a good number of years we travelled on summer tyres with the set of chains ready for white roads.
We never had any major mishaps but even with chains I put the car sideways across the centre of a road, wife was "unamused".
The situation in Switzerland is very simple, in the event of any accident the vehicle without winter tyres is deemed to be responsible....no ifs no buts!!
Fully winterized vehicle these days!
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:

So who will be going summer and chains next season

Where can you get summer tyres from?
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Not on my own car but plenty of times in the US. You don't really get to opt for snow tyres on most rentals and most have varying qualities of OEM tyres. You can pay a tasty uplift for an SUV which may even have 4wd and not particularly better tyres or try to pick the vehicle with best tyres on the line then stop in at a Walmart and buy chains.
Fwd, not driving like a dick and putting chains on when appropriate i.e. not after you've lost traction has generally worked ok.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
90% of the time you’ll be fine but if you get caught with Summer tyres on fresh snow on a hill you’re truly f**ck*d
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Having just done my first season ever on snow tyres I’m impressed, but having spent the last 20 odd seasons driving mountain roads which would make most people in Europe cry themselves into a catatonic mess, I would have no problem going back to summer tyres/chains/brain Happy
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... most folks can't get up our hill on summers if it snows. Some folks believe Range Rovers have magical powers ... "but it's a Range Rover!!"

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johnE wrote:
Quote:

So who will be going summer and chains next season

Where can you get summer tyres from?


Good contribution, ta.
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Charliegolf wrote:
So who will be going summer and chains next season. Obvs horror stories are most welcome. Very Happy
Not me, winter tyres, AWD and robust set of snowsocks which I expect will never be used. My horror story involved a rental car from Lyon, an early snowfall in October, and having to clear 40m of road with an avalanche shovel in order not to miss a flight back to the UK. Lesson learned about not hiring from airports which don’t fit winter tyres as standard, even in the autumn pre-season.

Years ago I was pretty sceptical about winters tyres, purely from a point of ignorance. After all, all tyres are made of rubber so just how different can it be? That was answered nearly 20 years ago in the space of three or four weeks when I drove my own car, fitted with the usual tyres that come with cars in the UK, and then a couple of weeks later hired a very similar car from GVA which came with winter tyres. Despite similar driving conditions the difference in grip was simply astonishing to me. In my own car I had to fit chains several times, a chore I hate with an absolute passion. In the rental car I didn’t have to fit chains once. The following winter I bought winter tyres for my car, and since then have understood that the benefits are not just for driving on snow (I no longer incorrectly call them snow tyres, for example).

As I drive in the Alps more than I used to the last three cars I’ve had have been AWD. When partnered with winter tyres I think it’s unlikely that I’ll need to fit chains for the conditions I’ll be driving in. If it is that bad that chains are essential (conditions I’ve never experienced in an AWD car fitted with winters) I’ll almost certainly to be able to avoid driving on that day, but I’ll carry a set of snowsocks stuffed in to a corner of the spare wheel well as an emergency solution. I have chains in the apartment if necessary, but they are buried at the back of the cave and I don’t expect they will see the light of day again.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Many years ago when I had a company car I was stuck with summer tyres. No disasters, but one trip was very slow and frustrating, having to put on / remove chains about eight times in twenty miles through the mountains.
Once we had our own car we swapped winters and summers, but for the last six years have just run All-Seasons, including for full alpine seasons.


Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Sun 26-09-21 18:19; edited 1 time in total
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I’m going with summers and chains in the boot just in case. 2 trips to the alps, one at feb half term one at Easter

Haven’t needed to use the chains, or felt like i was lacking in traction for the last 10 journeys we’ve done

Have got an Audi with Quattro system.

So will take the risk that this year could be very cold/dumping with snow but will probably be like all the other trips on the day we want to travel, roads clear, temps ok (below 7 degrees but not freezing)

Obvs one year I’ll get caught out….
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I've been driving to the Alps for over 40 years in winter and have really needed chains maybe 3 times on the journey - excluding getting out of the hard packed ice covered car parks in Tignes and in Val Thorens - my choice to park there as I knew I had chains I could use!
Two other little gems - friends of ours pre-season had to put chains on just outside Albertville by order of the Gendarmerie - it took them 3 hours to get to Montalbert (normally about 45mins) so you never know! (Lucky they were only going as far as Montalbert - imagine chains on all the way to Tignes or Val d Isere!!)
One thing to think about is the tunnels, even if there's thick snow on the road either side of the tunnel there is little snow in the tunnel - not so good for the chains and your tyres on the tarmac - certainly an advantage if you have 'approved' socks instead of chains, certainly more comfortable!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
I ran with summers and chains for 7 years and was always lucky enough to be driving on dry tarmac on our ski trips. Then I switched to separate summers and winters and the next season hit heavy snow and, significantly, alternating snow and tarmac where chains would have been hopeless. In the next seven years, I had to fit chains twice onto winter tyres when forced to by my travel schedule i.e. I had no choice but to venture out in conditions where locals would just have deferred their journey. Basically, this made me realise that given most of us have to travel on the days we do, it made sense to have winter tyres when driving to the Alps. And now some all-season tyres are also designated 3-peaks+snowflake, you don't even have the cost of swapping them twice a year: one set of tyres, year-round will suffice.

AWD/4WD on summer tyres will be a real problem in conditions like these, driving across the Jura, where the topography was such that tarmac, slush and snow conditions alternated:


http://youtube.com/v/uq6LQkRgjrU

These conditions appeared suddenly, with no opportunity to pull off anywhere. Note how the snowplough pushed me right into the piled-up snow on the verge. By the time the first lay-by appeared, the snow was deep enough that you'd probably get stuck or drive into the barrier. And then a bit further on, the altitude dropped and we were back on tamac. And then the route rose again above the snowline. And then thre was a stretch where it had been ploughed and was just a bit of slush. And then snow again. And so on .... I've done this route in the opposite direction in similar conditions, and the car in front of us with chains gave up and turned round after the first kilometre: it just wasn't practical for them to keep swapping their chains off and on.


Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Mon 27-09-21 8:12; edited 3 times in total
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
When I lived in Spain I did regular trips to Tignes on summers and chains. I got very quick at putting chains on. But you do run the slim risk of being stuck for a few hours, but that wasn't really a problem as I had no flight or ferry to catch.

When I moved their for the winter, I went full winter and I still have a set of unused chains.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Charliegolf wrote:
Who here will fess up to driving to the alps in Jan/Feb with 'only' summers and chains?

Regularly in the 90's, early 00's as I didn't really know winter tyres existed.

Charliegolf wrote:
I bought the whole caboodle in 2019 (winters and chains, the expensive kind, thank you Volvo) for a March trip, and didn't need either.

Not sure how you define "need" of winters. You can make do with summer tyres. Hard to know if accidents could be avoided with fitting of winters - maybe there are some stats out there?

Charliegolf wrote:
So who will be going summer and chains next season.

We use winters these days. I'd still risk it on Summers (with chains) if I had to - especially late season. But equally I would try to make sure I had winters if possible.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well I for one would never go near the alps in winter, without having winters fitted to the car - just not worth the risk. On another note: I have to go through Germany, and if needed (snow) they are mandatory anyway.
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Quote:

Some folks believe Range Rovers have magical powers ... "but it's a Range Rover!!"

A Range Rover driver who believed in those magical powers drowned some years ago when he insisted despite local warnings that he'd be OK crossing a ford in Somerset when the normally shallow stream was in spate.
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I can remember everyone at Weardale creased with laughter when a rusty old Mercedes sprinter had to tow a Range Rover with his 20 inch by god knows how wide tyres giving no grip whatsoever. I made sure I left before he turned round to attempt to drive back down from there.
In the 90s etc most tyres had actual tread rather than just 3 or 4 grooves around the circumference of the tyre.
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Bait taken Very Happy ... all seasons and chains for us (in various 4wd over the years) - but I have experience of putting chains on at midnight outside the apartment whilst it was snowing hard to get down the hill to the doctors surgery with a child in pain from a recently plastered leg!

For us it's additional stopping/steering insurance both in the UK in wet & colder weather and in the alps. Most 4wd cars will struggle on wet grass (never mind snow) on a gradient without appropriate tyres.

In the end it's is a personal risk calculation, but does the fact that you didn't need winters/chains in the past mean that you won't require them in the future?
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
1. Never putting on chains again. I'll wait, or go another way. You go ahead.
2. "Summer" tires should be called "warm-weather" tires. My first set taught me that in 2005, as I unintentionally drifted around Seattle on the first cold day of fall in my AWD car. I was so shocked at how useless they were, I bought winter tires the next day.
3. ...and learned to tire (sorry) of swapping summers for winters and back again at $100 a pop, (and storing them) so I go for winter-leaning all-seasons.

It may be worth noting that mountain pass roads in Europe are steeper than in NA. I have not seen chains required on AWD vehicles in NA since the early 80's, nor have I needed them.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
We've been running winter tyres since we started to drive to the Alps. I once hired a car without winters from the FRENCH side at GVA and had a terrifying experience. We have a 4wd estate and have never needed to fit chains but do carry them with us just in case. I have fitted chains to hire cars in the past.

On three occasions I have driven up to Les Contamines via St Gervais when it has been snowing heavily and it has been frightening dodging Parisians trying to get up on summer tyres and sliding all over the road. They tend to finally realise they are being utterly irresponsible at a sticky moment then block the traffic trying to fit chains. It is NOT a good look. Don't be that person.

Running a second set of tyres need not cost that much - after all the wear just spreads over two sets both of which last longer.
I bought a second set of wheels and change them myself, store them in the garage.
One tip though is to replace your security wheel nuts with plain vanilla ones. This year when I fitted my summers the teeth on the nut key sheared when I was half way. The local tyre place told me it happens all the time and all the guys who work there swap out the locking wheel nuts on any car they buy.
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We are travelling over Easter and have bought chains to go with current Summer Tyres. Appreciate the risk of a massive dump, but also willing to risk that the weather will be fine.

Would be a different call in Feb or Xmas though.
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I'm likely to be doing summers+chains this Feb, though not really through choice. Hiring an MPV in the UK to drive down and guessing that won't come with winter tyres. Can't wait to play "hunt chains that fix the tyres you only knew the size of a couple of hours ago" while driving down...
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+1 for @jedster's advice to ditch the locking wheel nuts: Alloy wheel theft was a 'thing' in the 1990s when they were only on expensive models, but not any more. Most car owners forums I'm on say the same thing: avoid recurrent problems with stripped locking nuts and just have standard ones all-round. When I took mine into the dealer for new tyres and asked for new all-non-locking nuts to be fitted, they said that most owners were doing this nowadays.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
LaForet wrote:
+1 for @jedster's advice to ditch the locking wheel nuts: Alloy wheel theft was a 'thing' in the 1990s when they were only on expensive models, but not any more. Most car owners forums I'm on say the same thing: avoid recurrent problems with stripped locking nuts and just have standard ones all-round. When I took mine into the dealer for new tyres and asked for new all-non-locking nuts to be fitted, they said that most owners were doing this nowadays.


Insurance could be your issue. Not saying it will be, but most insurer's ask if you have modified the vehicle and disabling or replacing the locking wheel nut would probably be a disclosable modification
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
i thought it was only me. I stripped a set of locking wheel nuts about 15 years ago and ever since have swapped them for normal bolts when I buy a new car. must say the dealerships in both France and England think I am a bit strange when I ask for this. I think they are fine with air guns in garages as they are pushing at the same time as they are removing the bolts. However the manual version means the head of the socket can slip easily. I run separate rims for winters and summers and change them myself. Recently invested in a small trolley jack and a brace with an extending handle. Made the job much easier.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Regularly in the 90s - didn’t know winter tyres existed
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Charliegolf wrote:
Who here will fess up to driving to the alps in Jan/Feb with 'only' summers and chains?


Did it once. Never again!

Ever since I've used either Vredestein Quatrac or Michelin Cross-Climate "all-season" tyres.

Yes - performance isn't as good as true winter tyres in the snow - but they've always done the job for me. In a wide range of conditions. Including not just fresh snow - but also hard frozen ice (driving nice and slow!!).

And yes - they wear faster in the summer than true summer tyres. But I really haven't got anywhere to store tyres out of season.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
pateman99 wrote:
i thought it was only me. I stripped a set of locking wheel nuts about 15 years ago and ever since have swapped them for normal bolts when I buy a new car. must say the dealerships in both France and England think I am a bit strange when I ask for this. I think they are fine with air guns in garages as they are pushing at the same time as they are removing the bolts. However the manual version means the head of the socket can slip easily. I run separate rims for winters and summers and change them myself. Recently invested in a small trolley jack and a brace with an extending handle. Made the job much easier.


I got a small trolley jack too - good tip.
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