 Poster: A snowHead
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@snowdave, agreed. Driving only becomes less impactful with a full car.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| snowdave wrote: |
That looks very high to me. https://www.carbonindependent.org/22.html (which is ecologically-biased, rather than industry-biased) suggests 115g/passenger km for an older 737-400 at 65% load factor. Pre COVID, I can't recall ever being on a sub-85% load factor aircraft, so adjusting for that, its 90g/passenger km. For a more modern aircraft (e.g. an A320-neo) it will be materially lower.
That makes it 720kg (i.e. half your estimate), so you could drive 5,000km instead of flying 2,000km. If there's only 2 people in your car, you might as well fly. |
The numbers given in your link (115g/km) are completely in line with the ones I have stated. The difference is made up by the fact that we have to calculate the "CO2 equivalent", not just the CO2 emitted. The GWP is higher up there.
| davidof wrote: |
| Peter S wrote: |
Clearly Back country touring is very low or zero carbon but what about our primary interest on this forum; lift served downhill?
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is it? I doubt it is that low carbon at all. |
Of course not. I moved back from touring to lift served skiing only because of the kids. Touring is mostly a hit'n'run job and requires a lot of driving. The alpine clubs lie about that.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| j b wrote: |
@abc, I am not sure how you could credit someone for not having a pet, or children. It is a bit like no one paying me the money I "save" by not having a Ferrari.
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But you didn't spend the money to buy the Ferrari in the first place. So you have plenty of money left to buy other nice things. That's the "credit" that no one pays you but you have nonetheless.
That's the point of carbon budget. Like money, you only have a certain amount. Spend it wise for things you truly want. What you don't spent on bar tab can be spent on air fare to the ski slope, etc.
| Tristero wrote: |
That's not the same: Having a pet is a hobby, like skiing. Children on the other hand are, as Kant put it, ends in themselves. Therefore, if you think in emission budgets, they got their own ones. Ya know, they are like real human beings. Just smaller.
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You're quite right. I shouldn't have toss children together with pets. Careless of me. 
On the other hand, children don't get a say on whether they come into this world or not, the parents made that choice. So perhaps a child should only be given a carbon budget when they reach a certain age. Perhaps increasing every year as they grow up?
All this is just humor and entertainment. There's no chance it'll become reality within my lifetime. Cap-n-trade was only for businesses, not for individuals.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| abc wrote: |
That's the point of carbon budget. Like money, you only have a certain amount. Spend it wise for things you truly want. What you don't spent on bar tab can be spent on air fare to the ski slope, etc.
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If I murder someone (or indeed many) can I have their carbon allowance? If I choose some real fatties do I get some extra credit? Smokers must be worth a few more points. I already feel worthy saving the planet.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I often think that ski lifts must use huge amounts of energy, carrying large numbers of folk and their equipment up the mountain, at relative speed, all day long.
You only have to try to walk up with skis to realise how much energy per person is required...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@king key, is this like Highlander where you absorb the power of those you vanquish?
I’m getting my crossbow.
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| king key wrote: |
| abc wrote: |
That's the point of carbon budget. Like money, you only have a certain amount. Spend it wise for things you truly want. What you don't spent on bar tab can be spent on air fare to the ski slope, etc.
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If I murder someone (or indeed many) can I have their carbon allowance? If I choose some real fatties do I get some extra credit? Smokers must be worth a few more points. I already feel worthy saving the planet. |
If you gone to the bother of murdering someone, you would have their wallet, wouldn't you?
Whether you want to show it off is a different matter
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| Quote: |
I often think that ski lifts must use huge amounts of energy, carrying large numbers of folk and their equipment up the mountain, at relative speed, all day long.
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Yes this is one of the areas of consumption. A draglift of say 500m length and 125m rise may consume up to 25kw on start up then much less whilst running. A 10 person gondola and you are looking at 750kw or more. Then there is all the embedded carbon in the steel, manufacturing and concrete used in the construction of the lift and ultimately its removal. And then the emission around snowmaking etc. I imagine it all adds up.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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If memory serves in France nuclear power amount to c70% of production, that's low carbon to start with.
Perhaps Piste Bashers will become electric soon, after all they're largely idle all day so a good 12 hours charge.
Get a train or drive (electric if possible).
All low carbon
The main issue is heating up the alpine areas with activity, that's likely more damaging.
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Donate to a tree planting company to offset your footprint.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
@king key, is this like Highlander where you absorb the power of those you vanquish?
I’m getting my crossbow. |
"There can be only one". Sounds a little restrictive, at least there are 2 genders.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Havn't read every comment but you know what? I don't give a damm about carbon ''footprints''. The earth has periodic ups and down. Nothing I do will change that. Enjoy the day.
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Which topic title is more of an oxymoron - this one or the “Crystal Ski customer service” topic?
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You know it makes sense.
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| Nothing I do will change that. |
You are wrong.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@denfinella, You have your opinion, I have mine. People now talk of global warming? I'm old enough to remember when so called scientists were talking about a new ice age.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| @denfinella, You have your opinion, I have mine. People now talk of global warming? I'm old enough to remember when so called scientists were talking about a new ice age. |
You are wrong and right. You are correct in saying that global temperatures are cyclical. It's been 20 years since I studied quaternary paleo climatology, but IIRC, it's something like 90k years of ice age followed by 10k years of warmer climate. And it has been for millions of years.
You are wrong to say that climate change this time hasn't been influenced by man's activity on earth. This isn't opinion by the way, the is peer reviewed scientific consensus.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Grinning wrote: |
| Which topic title is more of an oxymoron - this one or the “Crystal Ski customer service” topic? |
It should perhaps be "LowER carbon skiing".
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| @denfinella, You have your opinion |
It's no longer an opinion that there is man made climate change.
The question now, is what can and should be done about it. You, personally can choose to do nothing whatsoever. Although much can be imposed on you by Government action.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Layne, Until it is. I will continue to enjoy my life as I see fit. So whether I want to ski in Japan after an 11 or 12 hour gas burning flight or drive a thousand miles in my Diesel car I will continue to do so. @Timmycb5,
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Timmycb5, ''You are wrong to say that climate change this time hasn't been influenced by man's activity on earth'' Say you? If you can show me, or anyone, where exactly I said that you might have a valid point. However YOU CAN'T because I DIDN'T! Like all zealots you make up things to suit your own argument.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| @Timmycb5, ''You are wrong to say that climate change this time hasn't been influenced by man's activity on earth'' Say you? If you can show me, or anyone, where exactly I said that you might have a valid point. However YOU CAN'T because I DIDN'T! Like all zealots you make up things to suit your own argument. |
Ah, you see, when you said
| Quote: |
| I don't give a damm about carbon ''footprints''. The earth has periodic ups and down. Nothing I do will change that. |
I wrongly assumed that "noting I do will change that" you meant that nothing man will do will change that. I haven't come across you before on this forum, so I didn't realise that you were completely self absorbed.
I'll know for next time. Thanks for the heads up.
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| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| The earth has periodic ups and down. Nothing I do will change that. |
Hmmm... you're saying you can't accelerate or decelerate (aka "influence") those changes with your individual action, or the collective action of all of us together, right? 
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| abc wrote: |
| Old Man Of Lech wrote: |
| The earth has periodic ups and down. Nothing I do will change that. |
Hmmm... you're saying you can't accelerate or decelerate (aka "influence") those changes with your individual action, or the collective action of all of us together, right? |
I honestly doubt you will unless you get China / USA and India to change.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Rob_Quads, China have pledged to be carbon neutral by 2060 and to stop building high-carbon energy projects at home and as part of its overseas development programmes.
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China is already changing. The US to a lessor degree. I'm sure India will slowly come along.
The media keep on using "country" as a unit of measurement. But if you divide the population in each country, you'll realize the western countries contribute much more per capita. Anyone cares to suggest why?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Well, whether or not it will have any impact, I've just booked trains (rather than planes) to get me to the PSB. Its not an entirely straightforward journey, costs a bit more and I will use an extra day of holiday. But somewhere along the line we have to actually change, or nothing will improve. Will I persuade the US, China, India etc to cut back on emissions? No, not on my own - but enough small changes will add up. Plus I get a far more relaxing journey (I hope).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@mgrolf, good on you. Let us know how you get on.
I will post similar of my experiences.
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You know it makes sense.
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I was up at my local hill this morning, which (as all businesses do) regularly shouts loudly about its environmental credentials, and encourages car pooling to “save the environment”
The guy who owns it landed in the car park in his helicopter with a couple of mates……there was plenty of car parks available! He would have easily got his Range Rover into a spot 
W@nkers
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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The time will come soon when they get a 3phase supply into the winch cable on winch cats! 
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Poster: A snowHead
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| cameronphillips2000 wrote: |
| Donate to a tree planting company to offset your footprint. |
And those planted trees have then been burning in this summer's forest fires, eg British Airways trees!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
so called scientists
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You have thrown away what little credibility your arguments had.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Shame this type of discussion always seems to descend into a big argument, but maybe that's because I favour the facts:
1. The Climate Crisis is man-made (assuming you agree that 99% of 'so called scientists' is a convincing majority)
2. Collectively, we can do something about it (whether we can enough to stop severe consequences for future generations is another matter)
3. Individually, we can do something about it (reduce your own carbon footprint, pressure institutions to reduce theirs)
There will always be some people who don't want to do that. I feel we have a moral responsibility to make what efforts we can.
As far as skiing goes, the single biggest way of reducing the carbon cost of your holiday is to change how you travel. Train is best, a fully-laden car (ie 4 passengers) is another better option than flying.
I don't favour a carbon budget, but more taxes on flights and more subsidies for train travel would make more sense. Plus some targeting of the frequent fliers who, err, fly the most frequently...but to the extreme. In the UK, 1% of the population took over 20% of the flights in 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/25/1-of-english-residents-take-one-fifth-of-overseas-flights-survey-shows -
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Timmycb5 wrote: |
Apparently 57% of the carbon footprint of the skiing industry is caused by the travel to get there, as almost everyone goes by shorthaul plane. Getting the train reduces this part of the carbon footprint by up to 90%. A full car can reduced it by about 2/3rd IIRC.. |
^ this
If you want to reduce carbon foot print of a ski trip then taking the train, or driving, a very good start.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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A lot of accommodation (certainly around me) has a very low carbon footprint when it comes to energy supply.
Our electricity supplier (Salzburg AG) uses 100% clean energy (https://www.salzburg-ag.at/strom/privat/stromprodukte.html).
I'll have to do some research into whether they also supply the ski areas in Land Salzburg. It is very likely that they do but I'm not brave enough to out that forward as a quote!
Many houses (mine included) have switched over to biomass pellets from oil. We did that almost 10 years ago.
Our little outfit runs on 100% renewables and clean energy.
Many buildings are also switching to heat-pumps. With the clean electricity this is a pretty good idea.
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FAQ
convoy.
